Is the cali a commercial vehicle!?

[danny13]

Currently looking into taking a Cali /Cali Beach as a company car via my employers car leasing scheme (Leaseplan).

Seems to be somewhat unclear as to the HMRC classification of the cali, curious to know whether it would be deemed as a commercial vehicle for calculating BIK tax.

I understand that the V5 will probably say body type motor caravan and taxation class diesel car, however it seems to meet all the commercial vehicle criteria.

If it is a commercial vehicle BIK is a flat rate charge with no emissions based penalty, i.e.
£3000 x 40% = £1200 (at 40% tax)

if it is a 'car' then the 180PS BiTDI DSG 2.0 litre weighs in at max BIK taxation due to emissions of 214, on a £50k Cali BIK it would be £7000 per year.

I'm fairly sure I have seen some used ex-hire cali's with VAT included which suggest that they are indeed classed as commercial vehicles...

 

[Meoncoast]

they are sold by vw as commercial vehicles our local vw dealer is vw car and do not sale or service the Cali which is all under their commercial vehicles dealers however the tax office may see it differently but canr see why

 

[choplee]

Not classed as LGV ,but as a motor home on the v5 ,so will be a PLG like a carravelle or a caddy life ,as a passanger car that has rear side windows and not commercial like a kombi or panel van.

 

[Tayls]

I would suggest phoning your local tax office (number on your Tax coding notice, or you can find it on the web) - they are very helpful, actually.

Ian

 

[danny13]

Just spoke to local tax office, they were helpful, confirmed that neither the beach nor cali are classed as commercial vehicles so would therefore incur the maximum BIK penalty based on CO2.

Therefore makes no financial sense to have as a company car.

 

[Tayls]

So not helpful in a good way

Shame, that would have been great!

Cheers
Ian

 

[Harbourmaster]

But HMRC do allow businesses to claim the VAT back, even though it's not classed as a commercial.

 

[Freeley]

But HMRC do allow businesses to claim the VAT back, even though it's not classed as a commercial.

Not according to my dealer they don't.
Our cali was an ex demo, somebody had pretty much bought it before us but pulled out when their accountant told them they wouldn't be able to claim the vat back.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[BerndRos]

I think you would only be able to claim the VAT back if you were using it to hire out....even then they could argue about any private usage.

That's apart from private usage charge for tax purposes....

 

[danny13]

I think you would only be able to claim the VAT back if you were using it to hire out....even then they could argue about any private usage.

That's apart from private usage charge for tax purposes....

That'd probably explain why I've seen some ex-hire cali's for sale plus VAT....I think!

 

[ChrisandPenney52]

So, is this basically the plot (and to link up this and another recent thread about road tax on the Beach):

VW treats all vehicles on the T5 platform as a Commercial Vehicle for servicing, so you need to take them to a Van Centre

For Road tax purposes the Cali is a Motor Caravan, as it fits the criteria such as having fixed cooking, dining, sleeping and water supply, which means the owner pays the PLG rate. The Beach doesn't qualify as a Motor Caravan because it's missing some of these, but as it has seats and side windows it qualifies as a 'car', so gets CO2 based tax rate. And as the Cali is a motor caravan under 3.5 tonnes and the Beach is a car, both are subject to car speed limits and not van speed limits.

For Commercial use, both are classified as private vehicles, not commercial vehicles, with all the implications that follow from this

 

[Harbourmaster]

But HMRC do allow businesses to claim the VAT back, even though it's not classed as a commercial.

Not according to my dealer they don't.
Our cali was an ex demo, somebody had pretty much bought it before us but pulled out when their accountant told them they wouldn't be able to claim the vat back.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

Claiming the VAT back on any vehicle depends on individual circumstances. In principle though, HMRC says this:

Motor homes and motor caravans
Motor homes and motor caravans aren't considered to be cars for VAT purposes so long as certain features have been incorporated into the vehicle. These are:
a permanently installed sink and cooking facilities
seating arrangements so that diners can sit at the meal table
at least one bed which has a minimum length of 1.82 metres
a permanently installed fresh water tank with a minimum capacity of ten litres
These features have been agreed between HMRC and the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders.

 

[ChrisandPenney52]

OK, the VAT stuff is not something I understand or have researched so disregard my final bullet.

 

[Tattooz]

when i bought my cali last January i tried to get my accountant to claim the VAT back and he said there was no chance. He said that the only way to claim the VAT back would be if I was renting it out or if I was using the van for my business on a daily basis

 

[bowlerhatman]

i am an accountant and have a Cali that i claim VAT back on. This is because i use it for business. if you use it part for business you can do a part claim. Most accountants wont know the rules specifically for a Cali.

 

[muttley]

But HMRC do allow businesses to claim the VAT back, even though it's not classed as a commercial.

Not according to my dealer they don't.
Our cali was an ex demo, somebody had pretty much bought it before us but pulled out when their accountant told them they wouldn't be able to claim the vat back.

In fact, you certainly can reclaim the VAT on an SE Cali if you buy it through a business. If you Google 'what is a car for VAT' you should find the relevant HMRC document. This states that you can reclaim VAT for a motorhome which (amongst other things) has a permanently installed sink and cooking facilities - so the SE would be fine, but the Beach would not.

I believe (from discussions with my accountant) that you would have to show some legitimate business use, eg: travelling to/from customers or suppliers. The dealbreaker for most people would be that you must use it exclusively for business use. No holidays, full stop!

 

[Pipster40]

Hi all, did you ever get to the bottom of this in 2013? We are in a similar situation at the moment and would love any advice?

 

[RichieP_ClancyB]

i am an accountant and have a Cali that i claim VAT back on. This is because i use it for business. if you use it part for business you can do a part claim. Most accountants wont know the rules specifically for a Cali.

Hi Mr Bhatman - could you provide any further info as looking at options through my own accountant at best way if at all to get cali beach through books (im not Vat reg / dont earn enough) busines: freelance engineer wanting to use van on site for carry of tools, kit, rest + comfort to use laptop

 

[Corradobrit]

Hi Mr Bhatman - could you provide any further info as looking at options through my own accountant at best way if at all to get cali beach through books (im not Vat reg / dont earn enough) busines: freelance engineer wanting to use van on site for carry of tools, kit, rest + comfort to use laptop

Last seen 8 years ago. I think you might have a long wait to get an answer.

 

[Barry Chuckle]

The VAT aside the BIK tax on this car would be nearly £500 at basic rate and double at 40%, I'm pretty sure HMRC would never allow you to class this as a works van......

 

[Ozzy Pete]

I was told by my accountant, don’t even think about claiming for a Camper van for Business use. HMRC wouldn’t have it.

 

[Viktorgeorge]

I was told by my accountant, don’t even think about claiming for a Camper van for Business use. HMRC wouldn’t have it.

Surely you would be able to claim mileage (pence per mile at the current HMRC approved rate) in a California as a normal business travel expense (excluding commuting) or has that all changed since I was in business?

 

[Barry Chuckle]

Surely you would be able to claim mileage (pence per mile at the current HMRC approved rate) in a California as a normal business travel expense (excluding commuting) or has that all changed since I was in business?

You'd be able to claim the normal 45p per mile if it were used for business use.

 

[RichieP_ClancyB]

The VAT aside the BIK tax on this car would be nearly £500 at basic rate and double at 40%, I'm pretty sure HMRC would never allow you to class this as a works van......

yeah getting same info back off my accountant

 

[andyinluton]

You'd be able to claim the normal 45p per mile if it were used for business use.

You can claim any amount you want as mileage - it just becomes a taxable benefit if paid in excess of the Hmrc allowance.