Leaking pop top canvas

[MrMouseinaHouse]

There was no wind when my bellows leaked. Rain was moderate/heavy for an extended period of time. However, there’s no suggestion in the handbook that the bellows aren’t designed for that. It only mentions strong wind/driving rain, of which there was none.

Interesting you should say that, because the first night the rain got in, which was by far the worst of the two nights, the rain did only seem to be a drizzle, so at the time it didn't occur to me to be anything to do with wind. However, the second night it happened, I noticed that the rain was almost horizontal due to the wind at the time. So it might be nothing to do with wind. I'm also quite certain that the wind seemed to be a lot stronger on other nights when the bellows were fine and didn't leak at all, although I didn't make a note of the wind direction. I'm very open to the possibility that it's nothing to do with wind direction at all.
Another possibility of the cause that I considered was the amount of saturation the bellows were subject to. The worse leak came on a night after two or three consecutive nights of almost constant rain. Maybe this is a factor?

 

[RockinNRollin]

Yes, it was the new style, double skinned bellows. I had them fitted a few months ago and have emailed the VW van centre that installed them. I'm waiting on their reply.

It would be fascinating to hear their response!

 

[Pollewop]

Sorry to hear you’re also having problems, this is now being raised by lots of new owners on the forum, so be sure to check out these topics and add your vote to the poll:

DOES YOUR T6.1 DOUBLE SKINNED BELLOWS LEAK?

2023 OCEAN LEAKING ROOF FABRIC

LEAKING POP TOPS ON 2023 CALIFORNIA OCEANS

On the german Caliboard forum there are also a lot of remarks regarding leakages with the new bellows... So it seems to be a "known issue" already...
Some owners had the bellows of their Cali exchanged for a new one, but these also leaked :-(

 

[dspuk]

On the german Caliboard forum there are also a lot of remarks regarding leakages with the new bellows... So it seems to be a "known issue" already...
Some owners had the bellows of their Cali exchanged for a new one, but these also leaked :-(

11 pages of issues comparable to the pages here with the first image in April having the exact same issue as members here. Some interesting conversations around tension though.

Erfahrung neuer Faltenbalg T6.1

Hallo zusammen, nach der ersten Nacht bei konstantem leichten Regen und leichtem Wind auf die Frontseite des Balgs ließ sich gut beobachten, wie das Wasser tropfenweise durch die horizontale Doppelnaht an der Unterseite der Frontöffnung drückt. Nach einer Weile begann das Wasser auf die Sitze zu ...

www.caliboard.de

 

[Corradobrit]

11 pages of issues comparable to the pages here with the first image in April having the exact same issue as members here. Some interesting conversations around tension though.

Erfahrung neuer Faltenbalg T6.1

Hallo zusammen, nach der ersten Nacht bei konstantem leichten Regen und leichtem Wind auf die Frontseite des Balgs ließ sich gut beobachten, wie das Wasser tropfenweise durch die horizontale Doppelnaht an der Unterseite der Frontöffnung drückt. Nach einer Weile begann das Wasser auf die Sitze zu ...

www.caliboard.de

Some interesting insights there.
Bullet points I got was that tension could be a factor and the more elastic new fabric is allowing the water to infiltrate through the stitched seams.
Several people also report and show leakage through vertical seams.
One person reported so much water in the cabin that the seats and carpet were soaked.
I have yet to see a Coast with new bellows fabric report leaking. Could this be due to the manual system putting less tension into the fabric than the Oceans hydraulic rams?

 

[Julesverne2000]

Some interesting insights there.
Bullet points I got was that tension could be a factor and the more elastic new fabric is allowing the water to infiltrate through the stitched seams.
Several people also report and show leakage through vertical seams.
One person reported so much water in the cabin that the seats and carpet were soaked.
I have yet to see a Coast with new bellows fabric report leaking. Could this be due to the manual system putting less tension into the fabric than the Oceans hydraulic rams?

Could it be that the Coast was discontinued before the new bellows came in? I’m sure others will know the exact dates.

 

[Grigio Van Grigio]

Some interesting insights there.
Bullet points I got was that tension could be a factor and the more elastic new fabric is allowing the water to infiltrate through the stitched seams.
Several people also report and show leakage through vertical seams.
One person reported so much water in the cabin that the seats and carpet were soaked.
I have yet to see a Coast with new bellows fabric report leaking. Could this be due to the manual system putting less tension into the fabric than the Oceans hydraulic rams?

There’s also talk of a new version being made from 01/07/2023; same part number but with a “C” at the end of it. Someone on here mentioned that as well. However, still no indication as to whether there are any differences between these two versions.

 

[Corradobrit]

Could it be that the Coast was discontinued before the new bellows came in? I’m sure others will know the exact dates.

Certainly be fewer, but there will be some out there, including my Coast with the new bellows. The Beach has a manual roof too and they are still in production.

 

[Julesverne2000]

If the manual roof doesn’t leak, and it is a tension issue, might there be a solution in adjusting the hydraulics.

 

[Kayleigh]

There’s also talk of a new version being made from 01/07/2023; same part number but with a “C” at the end of it. Someone on here mentioned that as well. However, still no indication as to whether there are any differences between these two versions.

I wonder what the “C” stands for…

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

I wonder what the “C” stands for…

Most VAG part numbers get a letter at the end. Each time there is a revision to the part the letter increases by one. I haven’t checked the part number on my bellows, but sounds like the C revision may be a new part number for a revised design of bellows.

 

[Pollewop]

I wonder what the “C” stands for…

The “C” means that the bellows is for an Ocean, with a electric pop-up roof. When there is aa “E” it’s for a Coast or Beach, with a manual pop-up roof.

 

[Joncali2023!!]

Unusual to get water through like that. We were out last night when it rained hard for example, and nothing through. But we parked so that the back of the van was facing approx Southwest - so the roof took most of the battering, and rear overhang of the roof is the deepest. I don’t recall that we’ve ever pitched the van so the front of the pop top has been facing into the rain. There have been a few occasions when we’ve lowered the roof ahead of a storm blowing over - and slept downstairs.

Never try and waterproof the canvas - definitely not advisable. It needs to breath.

You must be fred the weather man to know the direction of the rain to be fair.

 

[Hawthorn37]

You must be fred the weather man to know the direction of the rain to be fair.

Not so difficult really, usually from the west, but a wet fingers useful if dry, otherwise a dry body if it’s wet! Parking up with your rear into the wind is generally the way to go.

Mind, things have moved on since this thread was started in October last year. The new double skinned bellows are causing a huge issue for people. Quite shocking water ingress - no matter how you park your van.

 

[Corradobrit]

The victims on the German forum are just as agitated as those here. Here's hoping a German and GB flanking action will get VW to pull their finger out sooner than later.

 

[Lagertha]

Hello. I've just had my bellows replaced and used them for the first time on a trip to Scotland. The leaks coming through the stitching in your photos look very much like the leaks I had on two nights. Oddly though, I had some nights with very heavy downpours and they performed fine, so it doesn't appear to be consistent. I think wind direction may be a factor. I think that if the wind is blowing strong enough, it pushes the water through the tiny stitching holes. If the wind isn't strong enough, or isn't blowing at the right angle or direction, then the water will run down the outside surface of the bellows without getting into the vehicle. Whatever the cause, the present design is clearly not fit for purpose. View attachment 111944

I too have had this expeiance; brand new Cali ti6 ocean, first rain. I’m gutted as I’m having to wait over 1month for the dealership to take it in for investigation,

 

[Kayleigh]

I too have had this expeiance; brand new Cali ti6 ocean, first rain. I’m gutted as I’m having to wait over 1month for the dealership to take it in for investigation,

One month wait…! My cynical side says that conveniently takes you over the 30 day rejection period…

Eurovans by any chance?

 

[Viktorgeorge]

One month wait…! My cynical side says that conveniently takes you over the 30 day rejection period…

Eurovans by any chance?

Your cynical side is probably right, and I have to admit that if I were Eurovans I might do the same for commercial reasons.

These leaking roofs are a massive pain for owners and dealers, and VW is not responding as it should, but VW dealers will, as a result, protect their business and avoid going any further than VW.

OK, I had a lucky escape, but if I had the new bellows I would be torn on whether to hang out or reject. In you case, @Kayleigh , the defective roof finish probably pushed you over the edge (as it would me).

The collective benefit of this forum might help those who hang out to help force a solution, if they can come together in concord. The alternatives have been well versed in the several strings in the subject - quite a read for someone new but probably wise if deciding to buy. In know what I would go for, even if it was from a third party (and had to pay): reversion to the old non-absorbent fabric and possibly then (if there were enough of you and you had to go to a third party) a joint application for compensation from VW.

 

[24OCEAN]

I have the same problem and understand there’s still no current fix. Does anyone know if the T6 bellows are still available to order and do they fit the t6.1? Seems like the best solution as there are no issues with this variant as far as I am aware.

 

[Corradobrit]

I have the same problem and understand there’s still no current fix. Does anyone know if the T6 bellows are still available to order and do they fit the t6.1? Seems like the best solution as there are no issues with this variant as far as I am aware.

No longer available. The new 2 layer bellows are a direct replacement. Likely the old supplier of the T6/early T6.1 bellows is no longer supplying (Ukraine?). If this was available I think many would have already installed the single skin bellows by now.

 

[Andy C Berks.]

I have the same problem and understand there’s still no current fix. Does anyone know if the T6 bellows are still available to order and do they fit the t6.1? Seems like the best solution as there are no issues with this variant as far as I am aware.

This is an old thread - look at the live thread (link below) where there are thousands of replies. Worth reading back through at least the last few pages of that one.

in a nutshell there is a fix, through a later revision of the bellows (known as 04S variant, but must be dated 9th Nov 2023 or later) - albeit the jury is out on whether these are a complete success or not as not enough out in the wild yet under long term testing. Make sure you register with VW Exec Office so you become a statistic (Adrian there is the useful contact) and get your dealer to order a set of replacement bellows - centrally VW are acknowledging that the 03S variant is “failed” but dealers are a bit hit and miss and sometime need educating, which is where the other thread I refer to is very helpful in helping you to educate the dealer if necessary.

Mine were replaced yesterday, and currently being tested in the good old British weather.

Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

Looking for other peoples' experiences with the new double lined pop top roof (the one that is grey outside / cream inside), and any potential solutions to the problem of leaking though the seams and fabric. In the last week we've had complaints from customers on all four of our March 2023...

vwcaliforniaclub.com