Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[myvanrodney]

Heres something for the amateur scientists amongst you to analyse...

03SA bellows.

Can I see a 4th sealant layer (the black rubber looking material)? ie,

rearmost layer - light grey exterior fabric
layer 2 - this black rubber looking layer
layer 3 - fly screen netting
layer 4 - darker grey interior fabric

 

[MisterLister]

Having followed this thread since becoming aware of the issue (after ordering but before delivery), I finally got the opportunity to put our March delivered 04S bellows up in some rain this morning. They were exposed to a few decent downpours over about 5 hours, although winds must have been light as most of the canvas stayed dry. On the exterior there was visible moisture on and below the front mesh, sides remained completely dry, water droplets beading on the rear of the bellows towards the bottom.

Nothing observed on the inside. However, I still don't consider this a conclusive test until it remains dry inside with more visible wetting to the front exterior.

I'm not sure if I'd be happier if they had leaked! At least then the uncertainty would be removed and focus could go towards a temporary solution. I'm tempted just to buy a wrap anyway to remove the anxiety and chance of a ruined holiday (we need the pop top to accommodate a family of 4), but this shouldn't be necessary from both a cost and extra storage perspective. I'd be more than happy with Aquatex if approved, and would prefer to apply whilst the bellows are new and clean so the lack of VW response is frustrating (thanks all who've been pushing this one forward).

I've updated my poll entry, and will update this thread with any changes as they are tested further. For now, I'll keep mulling over what is the most pragmatic way we can enjoy our van whilst reducing the risk of experiencing a leak exactly when it's most inconvenient.

Sent from my HD1903 using Tapatalk

 

[CaliforniaPhil]

Having followed this thread since becoming aware of the issue (after ordering but before delivery), I finally got the opportunity to put our March delivered 04S bellows up in some rain this morning. They were exposed to a few decent downpours over about 5 hours, although winds must have been light as most of the canvas stayed dry. On the exterior there was visible moisture on and below the front mesh, sides remained completely dry, water droplets beading on the rear of the bellows towards the bottom.

Nothing observed on the inside. However, I still don't consider this a conclusive test until it remains dry inside with more visible wetting to the front exterior.

I'm not sure if I'd be happier if they had leaked! At least then the uncertainty would be removed and focus could go towards a temporary solution. I'm tempted just to buy a wrap anyway to remove the anxiety and chance of a ruined holiday (we need the pop top to accommodate a family of 4), but this shouldn't be necessary from both a cost and extra storage perspective. I'd be more than happy with Aquatex if approved, and would prefer to apply whilst the bellows are new and clean so the lack of VW response is frustrating (thanks all who've been pushing this one forward).

I've updated my poll entry, and will update this thread with any changes as they are tested further. For now, I'll keep mulling over what is the most pragmatic way we can enjoy our van whilst reducing the risk of experiencing a leak exactly when it's most inconvenient.

Sent from my HD1903 using Tapatalk

I have been away in my van for 15 consecutive nights and I have bought a Cali wrap from the club shop so I can use it without fear of leaks in the night. It gets easier to install it. You need a foldable stool, (which I store in one of the chairs) to reach to feed though the side. Wind doesn't help, especially when you put the rear of the pop top towards the wind. Removing it is very easy. I loop the bungie hooks back on themselves, as they tend to get caught in the poptop hinges. It's bulky and long though, we store it in the load though area (for skis). I would say it's warmer and quieter up top, especially in windy weather. Ok, more hassle but I'm not regretting buying it.

 

[Fish111111111.]

Well we have ordered a poptop wrap so we can use the van, without fear and rolls of paper towel to mop up the water. The guy who makes the wraps says they have to use a special cotton thread which is twisted , this then untwists to fill the gap left by the needle. This would possibly explain why they leak around the seams, also maybe this explains the QC issue that the manufacturer is not maintaining the correct needle and thread plus tension to enable the process to be succesful. Just a thought as this saga rumbles on!

 

[ParachuteMan]

I have been away in my van for 15 consecutive nights and I have bought a Cali wrap from the club shop so I can use it without fear of leaks in the night. It gets easier to install it. You need a foldable stool, (which I store in one of the chairs) to reach to feed though the side. Wind doesn't help, especially when you put the rear of the pop top towards the wind. Removing it is very easy. I loop the bungie hooks back on themselves, as they tend to get caught in the poptop hinges. It's bulky and long though, we store it in the load though area (for skis). I would say it's warmer and quieter up top, especially in windy weather. Ok, more hassle but I'm not regretting buying it.

As contingency (waiting to fully test my Fabsil and Aquatex applications) I use a Comfortz Topper - it's very good quality. Thanks to @ArunAlec, to help put it on, I use some rope, knotted at one end, threaded through the eyelets at the bottom of the front panel - this helps you guide it onto the roof, and then you can remove the rope.

If you are working on your own, lay the topper horizontally across the back of the roof, with the ropes dangling down each side. Raise the roof about 12", slide the rear corners of the topper over the edge of the roof to hold it, the then 'walk' the topper towards the front of the Cali with the rope, alternating each side to keep it even. When the front of the topper is at the front of the Cali, fit the corners over the edges of the roof and then raise the roof, checking the topper is draping fine. Then fit the bungees. With practice, that is taking me about 5-6 minutes. Reversing the process is about 3 minutes.

 

[This_one_goes_to_eleven]

Had a pop top cover arrive for free from VW today. Of course I’d prefer a solution to the bellows leaking as soon as possible but at least its some acknowledgment of the issue from VW.

 

[flying banana]

Had a pop top cover areive for free from VW today. Of course I’d prefer a solution to the bellows leaking as soon as possible but at least it some acknowledgment of the issue from VW.

Wow. 80k ish on a van. Here's a 200 quid cover so you can use it ,and they act like they're doing you a favour. Be handy in winter though.
Disgraceful
It's like buying a fridge and then having to keep filling it with ice packs to make it work.

 

[This_one_goes_to_eleven]

Wow. 80k ish on a van. Here's a 200 quid cover so you can use it ,and they act like they're doing you a favour. Be handy in winter though.
Disgraceful
It's like buying a fridge and then having to keep filling it with ice packs to make it work.

No one has acted like they are doing me a favour to be fair.

 

[markbrown83]

Wow. 80k ish on a van. Here's a 200 quid cover so you can use it ,and they act like they're doing you a favour. Be handy in winter though.
Disgraceful
It's like buying a fridge and then having to keep filling it with ice packs to make it work.

Yup. I’m so glad I rejected mine.

I can’t believe people are happy with this interim fix which for all we know may be the fix.

 

[This_one_goes_to_eleven]

Yup. I’m so glad I rejected mine.

I can’t believe people are happy with this interim fix which for all we know may be the fix.

I doubt anyone with faulty bellows is happy Mark. For my part I’m being as pragmatic as I can be to keep the van that I want believing that it will be fixed , that a cover for the time being isn’t the end of the world which I would be buying for winter use anyway and that it all ready seems proven they don’t leak with a simple application of fabsil or similar.

Your mileage varies and that’s fine and I’m glad you got yours rejected because that suited you.

 

[ParachuteMan]

Yup. I’m so glad I rejected mine.

I can’t believe people are happy with this interim fix which for all we know may be the fix.

Why are you still following this thread having rejected the van, got your money back, seen it relisted ? Is it shadenfreude ?

 

[LastOrders]

Yup. I’m so glad I rejected mine.

I can’t believe people are happy with this interim fix which for all we know may be the fix.

A someone new to campervanning and not long now to get the keys I wouldn't say I'm going to be happy with a potential major defect lurking in the future .

But if it saves the misery of waterfalls and rejection conversations i'm happy to shell out for something that will keep us dry/warmer/cooler?/less noise.

I've tried to stop myself thinking to much about this thread as I feel it puts a damper on the new toy

 

[markbrown83]

Why are you still following this thread having rejected the van, got your money back, seen it relisted ? Is it shadenfreude ?

Not at all. I’m interested in if it gets fixed.

And will be following what happens with the multivan too.

 

[Joncali2023!!]

And still no solution to the leaking bellows I see…. Rejection was the best thing I ever done!

 

[Corradobrit]

And still no solution to the leaking bellows I see…. Rejection was the best thing I ever done!

Having waited 2+ years a rejection was never on the cards. Worse case scenario I will just Aquatex the seams.

 

[scottk]

Got a chance to test ours last weekend in Braemar. Several heavy showers with wind, a couple of hours of continuous drizzle and no leaks the first day. Not conclusive but hopeful! It was pretty dry the next day (a couple of light showers) and freezing overnight so only the first day of testing.

 

[Sheffield10]

Third set of bellows fitted on Monday this week, 04S dated 12/01/24. Tested with a minimal spray from a sprinkler hose and failed miserably. Drips appearing on the front corner vertical seam and from the front horizontal stiffener pocket seams after 10 minutes with a small lake in the roof corner after 25 minutes. These bellows are as bad as the original set and worse than the ones they replaced.

Dealer and VW EO informed. Adrian Burns is currently off sick and apparently on holiday next week. I found this out from a lady called Rhianon from VW EO who is apparently taking over from Adrian when he retires in June. She sounded like she's been parachuted in with minimal briefing and freely admitted that she hasn't been brought up to speed with bellowsgate yet.

One potentially useful scrap of information she did offer was that VW have had no reports of leaks on the ‘M1A’ variant of the bellows, but she couldn’t confirm how to identify that variant on the bellows. I have checked the part number tag on my bellows and there is nothing resembling ‘M1A’, nor on the QC tag. Has anyone heard anything about this ‘M1A’ variant? – or maybe this is a VW joke I am not getting (Missing In Action).

 

[P600BOO]

Why not just spray all the stitched seams with Aquatex or similar?
It's has worked on mine.

 

[Capt_Stanley]

I’ve carried out my third test on my latest set of bellows dated 180124 with the following result:

1st test was 5-6 hours of constant drizzle. No leaks.
2nd test included heavy but short periods of rain with drizzle in between. No leaks.
3rd test last night we had long periods of heavy rain (very heavy at times) these were persistent and continued throughout the night. No leaks.
(All the above tests were completed in the last week)

This is my 3rd set of bellows and the only set which had any success, the previous two sets failed at the continuous drizzle stage. Is this conclusive? time will tell.
I did reject my first leaking California and gave myself time to reflect on my future options and after some consideration ordered another California in the hope that the leaking bellows were resolved. Sadly this was not the case, the dealer were quick to respond and replaced the bellows, they tested the replacement bellows before handing over the vehicle which did give me some confidence.
I love the California and I am very pleased with the latest result, I cannot fault Breeze Poole they have been great, no issues with the rejection of my first California, and very quick to respond with all my concerns.

Everybody has an opinion on the latest saga however for me I’m pleased I’ve stuck with the California, I absolutely love it. I am now considering Aquatex/Fabsil treatments.

 

[TrevorH]

Obviously this is a v long saga but I am now intending to purchase a 73 plate demonstration Cali notwithstanding these concerns since it is a v good deal . If I accept that the bellows may well need to be replaced with the latest version ( under warranty or at my own expense if VW are resistant) am I really any worse off than having the latest (04S?) van ?

 

[RockinNRollin]

Obviously this is a v long saga but I am now intending to purchase a 73 plate demonstration Cali notwithstanding these concerns since it is a v good deal . If I accept that the bellows may well need to be replaced with the latest version ( under warranty or at my own expense if VW are resistant) am I really any worse off than having the latest (04S?) van ?

Warranty coverage is still there and there's evidence some of the 04S do work plus non-official routes (e.g. Aquatex, albeit possibly with warranty implications) to resolving the issue. There's also a stop gap solution while issues get resolved (wrap or poptop cover). It's not like the vehicle becomes totally unusable. Unlike the roof corrosion issue that gets mentioned periodically in the context of warranty concerns, the bellows is much easier to diagnose as faulty quickly and so far at least, VW are prepared to replace as necessary to get you one that works (the one it comes with might be fine!). Up to you, but I'm pragmatic and if the Cali is what you want and the deal is good, I'd go for it. With a demonstrator though, double check everything is OK generally as I imagine heavy-handed test pilots could break stuff like latches, table etc etc but it would get sorted I'm sure.

 

[TrevorH]

Thanks : my inclination is to be pragmatic although it would be good not to have to worry ; I wonder whether all 03S inevitably leak or it is the luck of the draw…

 

[Corradobrit]

although it would be good not to have to worry

Unfortunately with VW, thats an impossible dream. As for all 03S eventually leaking or not, thats also impossible to answer. Best to say the majority will likely leak given time and the right rain.

 

[TrevorH]

And what pop top cover do people recommend as an interim solution ? Easy to fit ?
I have no difficulty with carrying one as a back up in the short term at least although clearly one shouldn’t have to : I get that but I’m more about solutions than problems at this point in making my decision

 

[RockinNRollin]

I use a Comfortz wrap; I can fit it by myself, easier with two, a small folding stool is essential really unless you're a giant. Takes about 5 minutes to put on and off. There are added benefits; get the one with the clear window and you can open the front vent in the rain and let light flood in, it's quieter and insulates both against warm and cold. It's only really an issue when it's windy and/or tipping it down, otherwise it's not really much of an inconvenience to put on.

My 04S seems to be holding up to rain so far, but even if it proves to be totally waterproof, we'll still be using the wrap frequently.