Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[This_one_goes_to_eleven]

Third set of bellows fitted on Monday this week, 04S dated 12/01/24. Tested with a minimal spray from a sprinkler hose and failed miserably. Drips appearing on the front corner vertical seam and from the front horizontal stiffener pocket seams after 10 minutes with a small lake in the roof corner after 25 minutes. These bellows are as bad as the original set and worse than the ones they replaced.

Dealer and VW EO informed. Adrian Burns is currently off sick and apparently on holiday next week. I found this out from a lady called Rhianon from VW EO who is apparently taking over from Adrian when he retires in June. She sounded like she's been parachuted in with minimal briefing and freely admitted that she hasn't been brought up to speed with bellowsgate yet.

One potentially useful scrap of information she did offer was that VW have had no reports of leaks on the ‘M1A’ variant of the bellows, but she couldn’t confirm how to identify that variant on the bellows. I have checked the part number tag on my bellows and there is nothing resembling ‘M1A’, nor on the QC tag. Has anyone heard anything about this ‘M1A’ variant? – or maybe this is a VW joke I am not getting (Missing In Action).

And what pop top cover do people recommend as an interim solution ? Easy to fit ?
I have no difficulty with carrying one as a back up in the short term at least although clearly one shouldn’t have to : I get that but I’m more about solutions than problems at this point in making my decision

Easiest to fit looks like the Pucer screen to me so I have ordered one, even though I have a full topper FOC from VW.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Thanks : my inclination is to be pragmatic although it would be good not to have to worry ; I wonder whether all 03S inevitably leak or it is the luck of the draw…

Not at all. We have replacement 03S which leaked slightly on install and then never since and they have been exposed for day after day in wind, rain and heavy drizzle.

We were due to have 04S ones installed recently but given the noise on here we cancelled that and will re-raise a warranty claim if they fail in the future.

 

[Capt_Stanley]

I use a Comfortz wrap; I can fit it by myself, easier with two, a small folding stool is essential really unless you're a giant. Takes about 5 minutes to put on and off. There are added benefits; get the one with the clear window and you can open the front vent in the rain and let light flood in, it's quieter and insulates both against warm and cold. It's only really an issue when it's windy and/or tipping it down, otherwise it's not really much of an inconvenience to put on.

My 04S seems to be holding up to rain so far, but even if it proves to be totally waterproof, we'll still be using the wrap frequently.

Same for us as the last thing I want to do is have to bring down my roof with soaked bellows.

 

[Julesverne2000]

Third set of bellows fitted on Monday this week, 04S dated 12/01/24. Tested with a minimal spray from a sprinkler hose and failed miserably. Drips appearing on the front corner vertical seam and from the front horizontal stiffener pocket seams after 10 minutes with a small lake in the roof corner after 25 minutes. These bellows are as bad as the original set and worse than the ones they replaced.

Dealer and VW EO informed. Adrian Burns is currently off sick and apparently on holiday next week. I found this out from a lady called Rhianon from VW EO who is apparently taking over from Adrian when he retires in June. She sounded like she's been parachuted in with minimal briefing and freely admitted that she hasn't been brought up to speed with bellowsgate yet.

One potentially useful scrap of information she did offer was that VW have had no reports of leaks on the ‘M1A’ variant of the bellows, but she couldn’t confirm how to identify that variant on the bellows. I have checked the part number tag on my bellows and there is nothing resembling ‘M1A’, nor on the QC tag. Has anyone heard anything about this ‘M1A’ variant? – or maybe this is a VW joke I am not getting (Missing In Action).View attachment 122727View attachment 122728

I’ve also had conversation with the new VW rep after talking to Adrian a few weeks ago.

I also was told about the 04S M1A bellows. This was described as an update to the 04S and had resulted in zero failures post testing. A couple of ways to view this:
1. It is true and no one here has reported receiving these bellows. Wonderful but unlikely.
2. The 04S M1A is the same as the 04S. There are posts earlier in the thread saying that VW have advised that the 04S are fine and this current advice is consistent with that. We all know that there are issues with the 04S so this new update doesn’t provide any reassurance. We also know that the supply chain for receiving 04S hasn’t been reliable with several reporting that 03Ss were still being offered. It would therefore be very efficient of VW to get the M1A to customers so quickly.

I’ve also asked for further info on what differentiates the M1A from the 04S.

VW also confirmed that Aquatex or Fabsil is not approved as they are non-VW products. Not surprised by that response but at least we know now they won’t support use (even though it’s been effective so far for those who have tried).

As with last year, I can’t see anything but a slow process whereby a substantial number of 04S failures are replaced with another 04S, that also fails, for there to be any change.

 

[RockinNRollin]

I am sceptical that if it carries the 04S label there are any substantial changes. There were obvious design changes between 03S and 04S, so if there were further substantial changes I'd expect that "tag number" to reflect this . . .

 

[Elmo3]

Very odd that amongst the primary owners club forum, it appears nobody has an ‘M1A’ version...

 

[Corradobrit]

Very odd that amongst the primary owners club forum, it appears nobody has an ‘M1A’ version...

May not be written on the hang tag but might be included on the label inserted in the slat pocket. Then again it could be the 'A' sticker on the hangtag.

 

[Nick from Bath]

Very odd that amongst the primary owners club forum, it appears nobody has an ‘M1A’ version...

Unless that's the significance of the A sticker on the label some 04S come with? Which doesn't seem to affect the propensity for them to leak.

 

[Elmo3]

May not be written on the hang tag but might be included on the label inserted in the slat pocket. Then again it could be the 'A' sticker on the hangtag.

Mine‘s an ‘A’. It leaks.

 

[GreenMissile]

Mine‘s an ‘A’. It leaks.

Ditto. I got the update about the 04S 1MA in my conversation yesterday, also enquired about what had changed. Unable to advise

 

[RockinNRollin]

Ditto. I got the update about the 04S 1MA in my conversation yesterday, also enquired about what had changed. Unable to advise

Don't blame EO; they regrettably are toothless tigers and I'm not sure VW UK are much better; it's the appalling communication lines between VW in Germany, their supply chain and the UK that seems to be problem (not sure exactly where on that web of connections the breaks are though). It does seem particularly ironic for a nation that prides itself (or used to) on efficiency that one of their biggest national brands are an example of the opposite behaviour . . .

 

[Kev56]

Probably being a bit thick here but. Why can’t they make the bellows out of a Gortex material. This whole saga is a joke.

 

[Corradobrit]

Probably being a bit thick here but. Why can’t they make the bellows out of a Gortex material. This whole saga is a joke.

Do you know how much that stuff costs. And its not the fabric thats the problem per se, but the way and choice of materials used to construct the bellows.

 

[GreenMissile]

Don't blame EO; they regrettably are toothless tigers and I'm not sure VW UK are much better; it's the appalling communication lines between VW in Germany, their supply chain and the UK that seems to be problem (not sure exactly where on that web of connections the breaks are though). It does seem particularly ironic for a nation that prides itself (or used to) on efficiency that one of their biggest national brands are an example of the opposite behaviour . . .

I am not blaming EO directly, they have the dirty end of the stick. No one can dispute the lack of clear communications on this issue is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Corradobrit]

I am not blaming EO directly, they have the dirty end of the stick. No one can dispute the lack of clear communications on this issue is absolutely ridiculous.

I have a hard time figuring out if its deliberate or just plain incompetance on the part of VW Commercial in Germany. Probably a bit of both truth be known.

 

[Sheffield10]

I thought the whole point of EO was that they had a direct reporting line and access to the VW UK directors, so that significant customer or product issues were immediately escalated to director level (for them to define a clear and credible response).

I agree that VW UK seems to have little to no sway on what VW AG communicates or does to resolve this issue, but meanwhile the UK directors appear happy to let junior EO staff shield them from taking any of the flack VW rightfully deserve for their mis-management of bellowsgate.

 

[CaliforniaPhil]

Anymore info on the 04S 1MA? My bellows were due to be changes today but the manager at the dealership didn't see the point in swapping them again if they still leak. Probably just saying what I said to him when EO wanted to get it booked straight back in when the pre 9/11 bellows were fitted and leaked. I've got my call scheduled with Adrian's stand in on Thursday.

 

[OxonCalifornia]

Probably being a bit thick here but. Why can’t they make the bellows out of a Gortex material. This whole saga is a joke.

Why cant they revert back to OS2 Bellows that clearly worked?

 

[Sheffield10]

Anymore info on the 04S 1MA? My bellows were due to be changes today but the manager at the dealership didn't see the point in swapping them again if they still leak. Probably just saying what I said to him when EO wanted to get it booked straight back in when the pre 9/11 bellows were fitted and leaked. I've got my call scheduled with Adrian's stand in on Thursday.

The only mention of 1MA / M1A I've heard has come from Adrian's stand in, and when I asked her for more information she replied that 'she was only customer service and didn't deal with technical'. I enlightened her on the bellows threads on the Cali Forum and pointed out that very soon every customer she is speaking to will be asking about M1A, so maybe worth her talking to technical. Spoke to my dealer yesterday and he said they knew nothing about any variant other than 04S. He was going to try VW Technical today to see if they have any information on it.

 

[RockinNRollin]

Why cant they revert back to OS2 Bellows that clearly worked?

As per previous posts, we don't really know but it seems likely it's a supply chain issue that's arisen on the back of the Ukraine conflict (the 03S/04S are Romanian I think, it's likely the 02S and earlier were either Ukraine or Russia, or had a supply chain reaching back into one or the other).

 

[Julesverne2000]

The only mention of 1MA / M1A I've heard has come from Adrian's stand in, and when I asked her for more information she replied that 'she was only customer service and didn't deal with technical'. I enlightened her on the bellows threads on the Cali Forum and pointed out that very soon every customer she is speaking to will be asking about M1A, so maybe worth her talking to technical. Spoke to my dealer yesterday and he said they knew nothing about any variant other than 04S. He was going to try VW Technical today to see if they have any information on it.

I’m still waiting to hear back on what’s different about the M1A.

Probably all just confusion at VWEO.

 

[CaliforniaPhil]

The only mention of 1MA / M1A I've heard has come from Adrian's stand in, and when I asked her for more information she replied that 'she was only customer service and didn't deal with technical'. I enlightened her on the bellows threads on the Cali Forum and pointed out that very soon every customer she is speaking to will be asking about M1A, so maybe worth her talking to technical. Spoke to my dealer yesterday and he said they knew nothing about any variant other than 04S. He was going to try VW Technical today to see if they have any information on it.

I have also asked the manager at the dealership to see if he can find anything out about the M1A variant. The more people asking vw technical the better.

 

[Julesverne2000]

The only mention of 1MA / M1A I've heard has come from Adrian's stand in, and when I asked her for more information she replied that 'she was only customer service and didn't deal with technical'. I enlightened her on the bellows threads on the Cali Forum and pointed out that very soon every customer she is speaking to will be asking about M1A, so maybe worth her talking to technical. Spoke to my dealer yesterday and he said they knew nothing about any variant other than 04S. He was going to try VW Technical today to see if they have any information on it.

Coincidentally, I’ve now had a reply from the exec office. So despite being the one to raise the notion of brand new a M1A, they know nothing useful about it. Given that dealers don’t know anything about it (so far), this all appears to be a case of not knowing one’s arse from their elbow.

‘For technical responses this needs to be spoken about with the Retailer.

Unfortunately its not something I can deal with, if you call your retailer and ask them they should be able to answer any questions you may have.’

I think we just need sufficient volume of 04S failures to move this on, as per last year with the 03S.

 

[OxonCalifornia]

As per previous posts, we don't really know but it seems likely it's a supply chain issue that's arisen on the back of the Ukraine conflict (the 03S/04S are Romanian I think, it's likely the 02S and earlier were either Ukraine or Russia, or had a supply chain reaching back into one or the other).

But the design could be the same as well as manufacture process as OS2, surely, no matter where they are made? A country of origin, conflict or no conflict, doesn't depict whether their products leak or not? There are enough OS2 bellows out there to work out design and manufacture, even if starting from scratch?

 

[turnitdown]

Was speaking with a sales rep at Liverpool VW today as I'm looking to buy. I asked about the bellows issue and he must have said about 6 times while replying that bellows are 'water resistant' only, they never were, aren't supposed to be, and never will be waterproof. Hmm. Okay. Not impressed with that nonsense frankly.

We can think of it this way:

Either

We are incompetent, in that we design/spec a pop top roof without designing/speccing that it be waterproof.

OR

We are incompetent, in that we have no QA process for ensuring that products designed/specced to be waterproof actually are.