Leisure batteries not holding charge

[WelshGas]

WG, is that the one at Centurion Way, Hereford ?

I now need a fresh VW place to look after mine.

Yes, that’s the one.

Volkswagen Hereford | Volkswagen Dealers in Hereford | Vertu Motors

Volkswagen Hereford - With such a huge range of vehicles for sale, finding your perfect new or used Volkswagen vehicle just got easier.

www.vertuvolkswagen.com

 

[TripleBee]

Think we have mixed tales here…mine was the original post with the original 2012 batteries and the -0.6A drain (it varies from -0.2A to -0.6A with nothing on except the CU). The battery test printouts are for Buddano’s 18-mth old Cali. All very similar though – relatively low miles (for age) and little camper use.

Seemed OK when I first viewed the vehicle, and picked it up, with the roof being cycled a few times on the battery. Now questioning whether I paid enough attention to voltages etc. Bought form a VW dealer 3 hrs away (which is a pain), but warranty is with AA because of the age, so will have to see if that makes it easier or more difficult to resolve.

Latest update: after ~22hr mains charge it was showing 13.4V and 0.8A. With ignition on briefly (but not engine running) it jumped to 14.4V and 3.2A. Then, with everything switched off:

• On disconnecting mains it initially showed 13.2V, -0.4A and 100%
• Disconnect + 3 min: 12.9V, -0.2A, 100%
• After 30 min they’ve gone Do-Do on me: 11.4V, -0.2A and 0%

It did allow me to start the aux heater, but voltage rapidly dropped to 10.2V (around 12A draw) and it cut out.

Let the dealer battle commence! Any advice on a decent Cali dealer near Oxford?! Our closest geographically is Didcot, I think.

Seemed like I didn't pay enough attention then.

But even for you: disconnect the two leisure batteries. Charge them with a battery charger. When completed, and disconnected charger, wait 2 hours, measure them. If your battery drops voltage that quick, the battery is dead. If they stay good, there is something wrong with the wiring.

 

[MeltedGoldfish]

Seemed like I didn't pay enough attention then.

But even for you: disconnect the two leisure batteries. Charge them with a battery charger. When completed, and disconnected charger, wait 2 hours, measure them. If your battery drops voltage that quick, the battery is dead. If they stay good, there is something wrong with the wiring.

LOL, no worries! Unfortunately I don't own a charger and will be at least another week before I can beg/borrow/steal one and get enough time at home with the Cali to try it. Good advice though, thanks, and will probably still get this done before I can get it back into a garage. In a way I'm hoping it is the batteries, as at least it is a known quantity (and easy) to fix rather than an endless game of cat and mouse with wiring faults!

 

[TripleBee]

Well, in fact you have a charger.
Charge your batteries through the mains until the display shows you about 13,7V with nearly no current. Less than 0,5A. Disconnect from mains, disconnect both batteries (one under seat, one in the back), measure with the multimeter. The voltage should be between 12,8V and 13V. Wait for about 2 hours and measure again (batteries still disconnected). The voltage should still be about 12,8V, but no less than 12,6V. Oh, don't forget to shut the display first, or you may encounter some errors.

 

[MeltedGoldfish]

Well, in fact you have a charger.
Charge your batteries through the mains until the display shows you about 13,7V with nearly no current. Less than 0,5A. Disconnect from mains, disconnect both batteries (one under seat, one in the back), measure with the multimeter. The voltage should be between 12,8V and 13V. Wait for about 2 hours and measure again (batteries still disconnected). The voltage should still be about 12,8V, but no less than 12,6V. Oh, don't forget to shut the display first, or you may encounter some errors.

Thanks TripleBee, and good point!! I was thinking of using a separate charger to completely isolate them from the van and this eliminate anything in the van (charger fault, earthing fault etc) completely. As it is I’ve found a friend with one so hopefully borrowing it this weekend.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JDVKTM]

WG, is that the one at Centurion Way, Hereford ? I now need a fresh VW place to look after mine.

 

[JDVKTM]

Important to make sure it is an AGM battery as per original factory specifications.
People tend to replace with ‘cheaper’ deep cycle batteries....

 

[MeltedGoldfish]

Latest update: Finally got to check the batteries this weekend. Put on mains charge for 22 hrs (using the built-in charger as normal), then disconnected both batteries and measured the voltage at intervals with the multimeter:

Immediately prior to disconnect (still charging): Approx 13.8V on both

+3 min after disconnecting power: Underseat battery - 11.4V Wardrobe battery - 11.9V
+15 min (18 min cumulative): Underseat battery - 11.2V Wardrobe battery - 11.3V
+30 min (48 min cumulative): Underseat battery - 11.0V Wardrobe battery - 11.2V
+60 min (108 min cumulative): Underseat battery - 10.8V Wardrobe battery - 11.1V
+120 min (228 min cumulative): Underseat battery - 10.7V Wardrobe battery - 10.9V

Didn't bother using the stand-alone charger in the end as everything suggests that's working fine. The voltage drop profile is about the same as what I saw on the Control Unit when the batteries were connected, which suggests to me the sensor is fine and there isn't any shorting/earthing problems on the van side.

On the plus side, when I eventually got to speak to the right person, the dealer is taking the van back in to give the system a full check, but under the expectation that they'll change both leisure batteries under the warranty. Not going in until the end of the month (earliest convenient time) but will let you know how it goes...

 

[AlisonF]

Latest update: Finally got to check the batteries this weekend. Put on mains charge for 22 hrs (using the built-in charger as normal), then disconnected both batteries and measured the voltage at intervals with the multimeter:

Immediately prior to disconnect (still charging): Approx 13.8V on both

+3 min after disconnecting power: Underseat battery - 11.4V Wardrobe battery - 11.9V
+15 min (18 min cumulative): Underseat battery - 11.2V Wardrobe battery - 11.3V
+30 min (48 min cumulative): Underseat battery - 11.0V Wardrobe battery - 11.2V
+60 min (108 min cumulative): Underseat battery - 10.8V Wardrobe battery - 11.1V
+120 min (228 min cumulative): Underseat battery - 10.7V Wardrobe battery - 10.9V

Didn't bother using the stand-alone charger in the end as everything suggests that's working fine. The voltage drop profile is about the same as what I saw on the Control Unit when the batteries were connected, which suggests to me the sensor is fine and there isn't any shorting/earthing problems on the van side.

On the plus side, when I eventually got to speak to the right person, the dealer is taking the van back in to give the system a full check, but under the expectation that they'll change both leisure batteries under the warranty. Not going in until the end of the month (earliest convenient time) but will let you know how it goes...

By comparison if you charged on hook up for 24 hours and then used the control panel to take readings at similar intervals, what would the results would be?

 

[MeltedGoldfish]

By comparison if you charged on hook up for 24 hours and then used the control panel to take readings at similar intervals, what would the results would be?

I didn't take readings at exactly the same intervals, but it was pretty much the same drop off:

• On disconnecting mains it initially showed 13.2V, -0.4A and 100%
• Disconnect + 3 min: 12.9V, -0.2A, 100%
• + 30 min: 11.4V, -0.2A and 0%

So if anything, the voltages were slightly higher when connected in the van, but don't know if that's a function of measuring both batteries together. By the next day they were down to 10.5V, and they seem to stabilise about that (i.e. still at 10.5V after being left for a couple of days).

 

[AlisonF]

I didn't take readings at exactly the same intervals, but it was pretty much the same drop off:

• On disconnecting mains it initially showed 13.2V, -0.4A and 100%
• Disconnect + 3 min: 12.9V, -0.2A, 100%
• + 30 min: 11.4V, -0.2A and 0%

So if anything, the voltages were slightly higher when connected in the van, but don't know if that's a function of measuring both batteries together. By the next day they were down to 10.5V, and they seem to stabilise about that (i.e. still at 10.5V after being left for a couple of days).

Thank you

 

[TripleBee]

I didn't take readings at exactly the same intervals, but it was pretty much the same drop off:

• On disconnecting mains it initially showed 13.2V, -0.4A and 100%
• Disconnect + 3 min: 12.9V, -0.2A, 100%
• + 30 min: 11.4V, -0.2A and 0%

So if anything, the voltages were slightly higher when connected in the van, but don't know if that's a function of measuring both batteries together. By the next day they were down to 10.5V, and they seem to stabilise about that (i.e. still at 10.5V after being left for a couple of days).

That is about one cell in each battery that is dead.
There are 6 cells in 1 battery. Each one is 2,1V approx.
Chances are big that they would, or start leaking rotten egg fumes (sulphur), and/or explode in the end. And that is something you really don't want.
Maybe, if you don't need the leisure batteries, it would be better to let them disconnected, and even removed out of the van? You really don't want battery acid let the carpet and all the plastics melt.

 

[MeltedGoldfish]

That is about one cell in each battery that is dead.
There are 6 cells in 1 battery. Each one is 2,1V approx.
Chances are big that they would, or start leaking rotten egg fumes (sulphur), and/or explode in the end. And that is something you really don't want.
Maybe, if you don't need the leisure batteries, it would be better to let them disconnected, and even removed out of the van? You really don't want battery acid let the carpet and all the plastics melt.

You’re right, I don’t want exploding batteries...

They won’t get used again before they get replaced at the end of the month. Would like to think that after 7 years they’ll survive another couple of weeks, but you’ve Got me thinking now!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Calitreks]

Ask for a courtesy vehicle as they will probably need it overnight to follow VWs Diagnostic procedure.
Was your vehicle a stock vehicle? from Sinclair?

Just by way of update.
Took vehicle to Vertu VW today.
Spoke to Clive the service manager prior to attending who was very helpful and changed my appointment to ensure the master technician was available.
Met by Tom the master technician this morning and relieved to hear that he knew what he was talking about with the batteries. Dropped me into town in courtesy vehicle and kept me updated with tests. Diagnosed that one battery needed replacing and covered under warranty. I did question whether both should be changed if one was faulty but assured that as one is working fine then only one needed replacing. Fingers crossed but happy with the service.

They have a loyalty event on for next few days. I will put a separate post up re this.

Thanks for everyone’s help and suggestions. Thanks @WelshGas for the recommendation for Hereford.

 

[Lowlec]

On past experience VW Sinclair Cardiff will not be helpful. Hope they sought you out.

Took my 18 plate to Sinclair Cardiff this week with warranty issues......they exchanged my starter battery as it was struggling to turn the engine over! Varta battery they exchanged too

 

[WelshGas]

Took my 18 plate to Sinclair Cardiff this week with warranty issues......they exchanged my starter battery as it was struggling to turn the engine over! Varta battery they exchanged too

Glad they sorted you out. Must be a first I’m afraid.

 

[MeltedGoldfish]

Latest (and hopefully last) update from me: Got the van back from the dealer today with 2 new Varta F21 leisure batteries fitted under warranty. No quibbles. Seems to have done the trick.

Thanks for all the help and advice everyone.

 

[MeltedGoldfish]

Latest (and hopefully last) update from me: Got the van back from the dealer today with 2 new Varta F21 leisure batteries fitted under warranty. No quibbles. Seems to have done the trick.

Thanks for all the help and advice everyone.

Well.... nearly last post. They're actually VW-branded but built by Varta with the same part number as the F21 (000915105CD - 80AH, AGM etc). Though they're labelled "VW Group Start-Stop Starter Battery", but assuming it's the right one as I've seen that part number mentioned on other threads.

 

[TripleBee]

Well.... nearly last post. They're actually VW-branded but built by Varta with the same part number as the F21 (000915105CD - 80AH, AGM etc). Though they're labelled "VW Group Start-Stop Starter Battery", but assuming it's the right one as I've seen that part number mentioned on other threads.

The AGM batteries are used for start/stop engines (they can last longer under heavy loads like starting a few times in a row), as well as leisure batteries (heavy loads like heater firing up, fridge kicking in, roof pump up and down). So it's normal they are the same batteries.
I have 2 AGM leisure batteries and a "normal" lead acid starter batterie, as I don't have stop/start.

And yes, VW wants the jackpot for "their" parts.
So if you find a Varta with the same specs and dimensions, they will also fit, but be more economical.
The only problem will be the starter battery. They need coding into the battery manager, otherwise you will come across strange things when just replacing a dead starter battery with a new one without coding. A non-original battery doesn't have the right label to code the manager.
Leisure batteries don't need coding, so for that you will be good, if you might have to replace your leisure batteries in the future.

 

[MeltedGoldfish]

The AGM batteries are used for start/stop engines (they can last longer under heavy loads like starting a few times in a row), as well as leisure batteries (heavy loads like heater firing up, fridge kicking in, roof pump up and down). So it's normal they are the same batteries.
I have 2 AGM leisure batteries and a "normal" lead acid starter batterie, as I don't have stop/start.

And yes, VW wants the jackpot for "their" parts.
So if you find a Varta with the same specs and dimensions, they will also fit, but be more economical.
The only problem will be the starter battery. They need coding into the battery manager, otherwise you will come across strange things when just replacing a dead starter battery with a new one without coding. A non-original battery doesn't have the right label to code the manager.
Leisure batteries don't need coding, so for that you will be good, if you might have to replace your leisure batteries in the future.

Thanks @TripleBee, really great info. Fortunately I didn’t have to pay for these as it was under warranty, but invoice had them at £160 each cost price.

As an engineer who used to run a training school that taught battery maintenance and charging - both vehicle and aircraft batteries - I probably should know more than I do!!

 

[TripleBee]

You are welcome.