Mid life crisis Cali Swamper!

CamperFam said:
Ouit of interest, whats your logic for putting it where you have? Are you using one of those door latch steps?

Would have thought it would have been better to have the weight distributed to the rear and panels up front.
Click to expand...

Depending on the weight of what is being carried I’d put it on the rear personally!


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Exciting news, BFG have launched the KO3, seems to have a lot of the features of the Wildpeaks - tread pattern and compound etc

I'll get my coat…
 
wildslammer22 said:
Exciting news, BFG have launched the KO3, seems to have a lot of the features of the Wildpeaks - tread pattern and compound etc

I'll get my coat…
Click to expand...

They lost a lot of market share to the Falkens. So not surprised!

Careful though, the BFG factory in Hungary used a different compound than the US for the KO2’s. They were much noisier. I specifically had my supplier order from the US for that reason when I ran them. You can see on the sidewall where they were made.


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CamperFam said:
Ouit of interest, whats your logic for putting it where you have? Are you using one of those door latch steps?

Would have thought it would have been better to have the weight distributed to the rear and panels up front.
Click to expand...
The solar panel came first, so once I decided I wanted/needed a rack, and having ruled out FR (weight, costs etc.) it seemed best to locate the Trail where it’s sat at the moment. Access is by an extendable ladder (Thule obviously :cool:). The roof lifts fine as long as it’s empty.
 
Cwcltd said:
The solar panel came first, so once I decided I wanted/needed a rack, and having ruled out FR (weight, costs etc.) it seemed best to locate the Trail where it’s sat at the moment. Access is by an extendable ladder (Thule obviously :cool:). The roof lifts fine as long as it’s empty.
Click to expand...

Out of interest do you know how much the Thule rack weighs with bars etc?

The FR one is a pretty hefty at 33kg all in, VW used to rate the roof at 100kg but have revised it down to half of that for all models. There are people on this forum that drive 1,000's of miles with two tandems, full size kayaks etc on their roof so the revised roof weight is almost certainly a conservative rating probably based on taking a ultra cautious approach that is (sensibly) very common in the automotive industry!

My FR rack is typically loaded with one of Roger’s solar panels (3.5kg with hardware), tyre table (6.5kg) so c. 43kg on a daily basis with the weight mostly on the back. On big trips I may add two wolf packs (wet suits, firewood, extra camping gear etc) and an inflatable SUP. I reckon my maximum load carried is c. 65-70kg. The hydraulics will lift that easily with the bulk of the weight at the back and probably another 20-30kg more. I do always unload the boxes/SUP etc before lifting the roof though to be on the safe side.

I think there is definitely a market for a manufacturer to bring out a rack similar to the FR one in size, function and aesthetics but engineered to be much lighter. I see no reason why such a rack would weigh any more than 20kg - Front Runner and the other overland outfitters like Rhino build modular racks designed to carry much heavier weight (roof tents, spare tyres, water and fuel jerrys etc) which is overkill for the Cali.

Any engineers up for joint venture?


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Last edited:
wildslammer22 said:
Out of interest do you know how much the Thule rack weighs with bars etc?

The FR one is a pretty hefty at 33kg all in, VW used to rate the roof at 100kg but have revised it down to half of that for all models. There are people on this forum that drive 1,000's of miles with two tandems, full size kayaks etc on their roof so the revised roof weight is almost certainly a conservative rating probably based on taking a ultra cautious approach that is (sensibly) very common in the automotive industry!

My FR rack is typically loaded with one of Roger’s solar panels (3.5kg with hardware), tyre table (6.5kg) so c. 43kg on a daily basis with the weight mostly on the back. On big trips I may add two wolf packs (wet suits, firewood, extra camping gear etc) and an inflatable SUP. I reckon my maximum load carried is c. 65-70kg. The hydraulics will lift that easily with the bulk of the weight at the back and probably another 20-30kg more. I do always unload the boxes/SUP etc before lifting the roof though to be on the safe side.

I think there is definitely a market for a manufacturer to bring out a rack similar to the FR one in size, function and aesthetics but engineered to be much lighter. I see no reason why such a rack would weigh any more than 20kg - Front Runner and the other overland outfitters like Rhino build modular racks designed to carry much heavier weight (roof tents, spare tyres, water and fuel jerrys etc) which is overkill for the Cali.

Any engineers up for joint venture?


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Click to expand...
You’re right, something between the camping and true overlander fraternities.

I guess the issue is that represents a relatively narrow market niche. Largely the participants of this thread.

My neighbour owns an engineering company locally which fabricates a lot of heavy duty equipment for the food manufacturing industry - extruders etc

They’ve offered to do small projects for us in the past - cattle grids etc.

Can but ask?
 
wildslammer22 said:
Out of interest do you know how much the Thule rack weighs with bars etc?

The FR one is a pretty hefty at 33kg all in, VW used to rate the roof at 100kg but have revised it down to half of that for all models. There are people on this forum that drive 1,000's of miles with two tandems, full size kayaks etc on their roof so the revised roof weight is almost certainly a conservative rating probably based on taking a ultra cautious approach that is (sensibly) very common in the automotive industry!

My FR rack is typically loaded with one of Roger’s solar panels (3.5kg with hardware), tyre table (6.5kg) so c. 43kg on a daily basis with the weight mostly on the back. On big trips I may add two wolf packs (wet suits, firewood, extra camping gear etc) and an inflatable SUP. I reckon my maximum load carried is c. 65-70kg. The hydraulics will lift that easily with the bulk of the weight at the back and probably another 20-30kg more. I do always unload the boxes/SUP etc before lifting the roof though to be on the safe side.

I think there is definitely a market for a manufacturer to bring out a rack similar to the FR one in size, function and aesthetics but engineered to be much lighter. I see no reason why such a rack would weigh any more than 20kg - Front Runner and the other overland outfitters like Rhino build modular racks designed to carry much heavier weight (roof tents, spare tyres, water and fuel jerrys etc) which is overkill for the Cali.

Any engineers up for joint venture?


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Click to expand...
The Thule 823 is 12kg, can’t find a weight for the WingBars; I discussed my FR options with VWT5-T6 and the size and weight were big factors, also the ability of the pop roof to lift the FR rack. The other plus with the Thule ‘system’ is it takes 5 minutes to take it all off. The Thule takes Wolf Pack and the FR Typhoon bag.
 
wildslammer22 said:
Out of interest do you know how much the Thule rack weighs with bars etc?

The FR one is a pretty hefty at 33kg all in, VW used to rate the roof at 100kg but have revised it down to half of that for all models. There are people on this forum that drive 1,000's of miles with two tandems, full size kayaks etc on their roof so the revised roof weight is almost certainly a conservative rating probably based on taking a ultra cautious approach that is (sensibly) very common in the automotive industry!

My FR rack is typically loaded with one of Roger’s solar panels (3.5kg with hardware), tyre table (6.5kg) so c. 43kg on a daily basis with the weight mostly on the back. On big trips I may add two wolf packs (wet suits, firewood, extra camping gear etc) and an inflatable SUP. I reckon my maximum load carried is c. 65-70kg. The hydraulics will lift that easily with the bulk of the weight at the back and probably another 20-30kg more. I do always unload the boxes/SUP etc before lifting the roof though to be on the safe side.

I think there is definitely a market for a manufacturer to bring out a rack similar to the FR one in size, function and aesthetics but engineered to be much lighter. I see no reason why such a rack would weigh any more than 20kg - Front Runner and the other overland outfitters like Rhino build modular racks designed to carry much heavier weight (roof tents, spare tyres, water and fuel jerrys etc) which is overkill for the Cali.

Any engineers up for joint venture?


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Click to expand...
Possibly a daft question, but given you have a solar panel on the front section, could you go for a half length rack and still have the same (ish), load capacity?

Would slim down the weight of the rack & tray at least.
 
JuanVecino2023 said:
Possibly a daft question, but given you have a solar panel on the front section, could you go for a half length rack and still have the same (ish), load capacity?

Would slim down the weight of the rack & tray at least.
Click to expand...

Yep that could work, the panel was added much later. My concern with that set up is that the rack could cast a shadow on the panel. The Terranger rack that Webah posted is similar size to that? I wonder if it’s significantly lighter than the FR one - I’m off to Google it.

Got it 19kg, that’s a good product but still very spendy at £900 ish


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Last edited:
JuanVecino2023 said:
You’re right, something between the camping and true overlander fraternities.

I guess the issue is that represents a relatively narrow market niche. Largely the participants of this thread.

My neighbour owns an engineering company locally which fabricates a lot of heavy duty equipment for the food manufacturing industry - extruders etc

They’ve offered to do small projects for us in the past - cattle grids etc.

Can but ask?
Click to expand...

I spoke to a mate of mine who has designed products like this before. I pitched a lightweight rack with integrated cable runs for an optional solar panel (Solar Camper Solutions set up would work perfectly) using airline track as a light, versatile and cheap lashing option. He quickly black hatted the idea - his view was the liability risk of damaging pop tops through improper use was too great. He has a point and it’s probably why it’s the one area of the Cali that has lacked any real innovation.

I’m very happy with my Front Runner set up, I still think there may be a niche market for a FR style rack that isn’t BOTH heavy & expensive!


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wildslammer22 said:
I spoke to a mate of mine who has designed products like this before. I pitched a lightweight rack with integrated cable runs for an optional solar panel (Solar Camper Solutions set up would work perfectly) using airline track as a light, versatile and cheap lashing option. He quickly black hatted the idea - his view was the liability risk of damaging pop tops through improper use was too great. He has a point and it’s probably why it’s the one area of the Cali that has lacked any real innovation.

I’m very happy with my Front Runner set up, I still think there may be a niche market for a FR style rack that isn’t BOTH heavy & expensive!


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Click to expand...
you could remove the frontrunner rails and fit lighter profile sections
 
Defender90 said:
you could remove the frontrunner rails and fit lighter profile sections
Click to expand...
Funnily enough, I was just pondering this on the drive to work.

I need a FR rack to take to my mate's factory to see if they can fabricate. Or find the tech drawings and send to them.
 
Gone right off Stitches and Steel metal wheels.
They sent me the certificate of conformity for. 6x 135 and the picture had 6 stud holes.
Chinese made and they saying load rated for 800Kg.
So it’s a no for me.
I might get some 12mm spacers to stick the Palmerstons out a bit.
It’s only for 6 months then the Kato’s go on.
 
Californication69 said:
Gone right off Stitches and Steel metal wheels.
They sent me the certificate of conformity for. 6x 135 and the picture had 6 stud holes.
Chinese made and they saying load rated for 800Kg.
So it’s a no for me.
I might get some 12mm spacers to stick the Palmerstons out a bit.
It’s only for 6 months then the Kato’s go on.
Click to expand...

That’s disappointing - I was looking at possibly getting one as a spare. Their website shows a 5 stud wheel that claims to be load rated to 1200kg.


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JuanVecino2023 said:
Wow. Makes FR look cheap.

Speaking of which, we need to up our off-road game.

View attachment 118461
Click to expand...

So that’s where Terrangers excess profit is going!

I love pure grey colour though. So how do we graft and extra axle on our Calis? Maybe tank tracks at the back, it would save money on those AT tyres we have all been discussing…


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Well swamperites, after much deliberation I‘ve finally pulled the trigger and ordered some wheels! Flirted with all sorts of sexy options like KMC Holeshots and Wolfrace Wolverines but my head decided to go with the relatively simple Black Rhino Yorks...1225KG load rating so pretty much bombproof, nothing obvious that can corrode like with the Holeshots, no dodgy trustpilot reviews like with the Wolfrace and got them for a good price.

Planning on dressing them in General Grabber AT3 235/55R17 103H so should look similar to the pic. Will put some pics of the van up once they’re fitted, next up after that is the black bike rack, should look like a different van afterwards.

0ECE577C-CA25-4EED-9C10-0C62C39DD938.jpeg
 
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Jimmylondon07 said:
Well swamperites, after much deliberation I‘ve finally pulled the trigger and ordered some wheels! Flirted with all sorts of sexy options like KMC Holeshots and Wolfrace Wolverines but my head decided to go with the relatively simple Black Rhino Yorks...1225KG load rating so pretty much bombproof, nothing obvious that can corrode like with the Holeshots, no dodgy trustpilot reviews like with the Wolfrace and got them for a good price.

Planning on dressing them in General Grabber AT3 235/55R17 103H so should look similar to the pic. Will put some pics of the van up once they’re fitted, next up after that is the black bike rack, should look like a different van afterwards.

View attachment 118464
Click to expand...
Very nice!
 
Jimmylondon07 said:
Well swamperites, after much deliberation I‘ve finally pulled the trigger and ordered some wheels! Flirted with all sorts of sexy options like KMC Holeshots and Wolfrace Wolverines but my head decided to go with the relatively simple Black Rhino Yorks...1225KG load rating so pretty much bombproof, nothing obvious that can corrode like with the Holeshots, no dodgy trustpilot reviews like with the Wolfrace and got them for a good price.

Planning on dressing them in General Grabber AT3 235/55R17 103H so should look similar to the pic. Will put some pics of the van up once they’re fitted, next up after that is the black bike rack, should look like a different van afterwards.

View attachment 118464
Click to expand...
Super duper. Although the Wildpeaks AtW3 are the tyre to have. So I’ve heard.
 
Californication69 said:
Super duper. Although the Wildpeaks AtW3 are the tyre to have. So I’ve heard.
Click to expand...
That was the plan until the Mrs got involved, doesn’t like the idea of the speedo under-reading apparently! Willtheyfit reckons it’ll show 56mph when I’m doing 60 if I put the 235/65R17s on. If we stick to stock sizes it leaves me rather limited really, it’s the Grabber AT3 or the Michelin Latitude Cross, but that’s not 3 peaks rated.
 
Jimmylondon07 said:
That was the plan until the Mrs got involved, doesn’t like the idea of the speedo under-reading apparently! Willtheyfit reckons it’ll show 56mph when I’m doing 60 if I put the 235/65R17s on. If we stick to stock sizes it leaves me rather limited really, it’s the Grabber AT3 or the Michelin Latitude Cross, but that’s not 3 peaks rated.
Click to expand...
I’ve had both KO2’s and now Comforser AT tyres at 235/65 R17.
They are perfect, Waze and another GPS shows me doing 60mph, and the Speedo shows 60mph.
So it actually makes the Speedo 100% on.

With my stock 255/45 r18 on, previously the vancontact, now Conti winter contact, my Waze says I’m doing 57, and Speedo inset at 60.
 
Jimmylondon07 said:
That was the plan until the Mrs got involved, doesn’t like the idea of the speedo under-reading apparently! Willtheyfit reckons it’ll show 56mph when I’m doing 60 if I put the 235/65R17s on. If we stick to stock sizes it leaves me rather limited really, it’s the Grabber AT3 or the Michelin Latitude Cross, but that’s not 3 peaks rated.
Click to expand...
I second that what @Californication69 stated above. Switching to the Wildpeaks actually improved the accuracy of the speedo. Confirmed via GPS.
 
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