Mileage Restrictions

[shudycamps]

This is really simple, when I was asked if I could provide my annual estimate (and the key word here is "estimate") I was then NOT told at that point my estimate was binding! I would of enquired as to the cost of a larger millage allowance. I also informed the agent at this point I wasn't sure as it was my first camper and I guess it's somewhere between 4-6k miles.

At this point to increases my allowance was a zero increase to the cost of the policy. Furthermore if I was told I had to sign a declaration and if I exceeded the estimate my insurance was voided, I'm pretty sure I would of enquired to increasing my millage allowance.

The agent failed to inform me that I couldn't increase my millage allowance at a later date. However more importantly the declaration dropped through the letter box after my cool off period leaving me no other option but to alter the police at my cost.

This is not best practice in my opinion.

Challenge them! They have written laws within insurance. Were you told on the phone the guess-timate was binding? Challenge them with "prove it; show me where it is legal law. That which rolls so succinctly off their tongues indicates they know exactly where IN LAW they can prove it. What was the date on the letter to you when posted. Do they have your email address? These are all points IN LAW they, not you, have to provide. Plus the recording which is their proof of what they said to you. All I know in life and what life has taught me over the past 65 years, if you allow yourself to become a door mat, don't be too upset when you are used like one. Download Dr Ketan app which allows you to record the tel conversation. Ring up again and request they point to the paragraph IN LAW they seek to evoke against you.

 

[Hantshog]

I think you may have to put this own to experience and poor customer service. Why don't you wait until you actually get near to your mileage limit, then buy another policy and just let your current one lapse. I am assuming you can have two insurances on the same vehicle of course. Assuming too it takes you 9 months to get to your limit you would have been out of pocket 25% of £77; less than £20.

 

[andyinluton]

Whilst I have some sympathy for the original poster, the insurance company gave a quote based on the information he had provided. That information has now changed significantly so why shouldn't the quote go up?

What has made him think in the space of 3 weeks that his mileage is going to be different?

At least the company has written to you and drawn your attention to the consequences of going over the mileage, better than finding out after you try and make claim.

 

[2into1]

It's niave of the OP to think that a conversation about how much the van is going to be driven isn’t going to affect the risk and therefore the cost.
It's very poor of the insurance company / broker to have used language that allowed the OP to believe the estimate he was asked for was 'just for interest' and not material.

I suspect a conversation with the big boss at the insurance Co will quickly have this sorted, either with the policy ending and the OP paying a pro rata charge for the time used, or a sensible small £ increase being applied to a higher mileage that reflects the risk and not the 'admin' element of their failings.

 

[Lloydfred]

I think you are missing the point of my annoyance. The declaration was issued after the cool off period. Thus creating the issue of not being able to adjust the policy.

The broker has told me that they were not aware that the insurance company would issue the declaration. They further told me that sometimes the insurance company will ask for a declaration and sometimes they don't, hence not makeing a bigger deal of the possibility.

This sounds to me as if the broker is covering their back. I am not in a position that I cannot find the extra for the policy. I don't need to end the policy. So I'll be clearer about why I'm annoyed.

If you are asked to further sign a document, or infact made aware of a clause within a policy after the cool off period this makes your original estimate unbinding.

If the declaration had fallen through my door within the cool off period I would of been entitled to alter the policy. I have two further Volkswagens and I have never been held to an estimate of millage.

 

[andyinluton]

But the declaration you were being asked to sign only confirmed the information that you had given them.

As to never having been previously held to an estimate - have you ever made a claim when you've been in the position of exceeding the estimated figure?

 

[Digger]

Is there no comeback on the broker? I would have thought they accept your business and are then responsible for providing best cover. Insurance is a minefield and many risk their cover by not notifying modifications or breaching conditions.

 

[andyinluton]

Is there no comeback on the broker? I would have thought they accept your business and are then responsible for providing best cover. Insurance is a minefield and many risk their cover by not notifying modifications or breaching conditions.

Why would there be any on the broker? the broker was reliant on the information provided & provided the best cover based on the information given.

Whats the broker supposed to do ? double any mileage estimates, declare an extra 3 points on the license, put in a higher risk postcode to cover himself just in case.

 

[Lloydfred]

But the declaration you were being asked to sign only confirmed the information that you had given them.

As to never having been previously held to an estimate - have you ever made a claim when you've been in the position of exceeding the estimated figure?

That's my point, if I was informed by the broker that my estimate would result in signing a declaration, I'm sure I would of enquired to increasing my millage.

Once the declaration came through I called them and asked why I hadn't been informed about it. I was then told they didn't know the insurer was planning to ask for it. It was at this point I said how much more would it cost for 8 K millage. I was told it would of been the same price.

My point is, I was miss informed and I couldn't alter the policy as the declaration came through after the cool off period. The whole point of a cool off period is you can cancel within a time period. If your informed after the cool off period and can't cancel what's the point of a cool off period.

I think the conversation should of went like this:

Broker: what's your estimated annual millage?
Me: not sure as Its my first camper between 4-6k
Broker: you might be held to your estimate and a higher estimate is the same cost as the lower estimate.
Me: oh ok well let's go with the higher estimate then.
Broker: ok sir that's fine

The result of the above informed conversation would be that when the declaration came through late (after the cool off period) it would of had no impact on the policy.

 

[2into1]

I think you are missing the point of my annoyance

I'm not at all.

You think you were right and my reply allows for that.
But also, everyone here seems to understand that mileage effects risk, so when you were asked about your mileage you were naive (compared to those here) not to realise why they were asking. Why did you think they were asking? All their other questions were also to assess risk (where's it stored, how old are you, accident history, value of vehicle etc). I doubt they were just being polite.

The words they used with you were wrong, and it is their fault. Naivety on the customer is allowed, their job is to seek clarity. They then failed because of their slow action (outside your cooling off).
That's why I'm sure speaking with the real boss at your broker will allow one of the conclusions I outlined to be achieved.

 

[Lloydfred]

I'm not at all.

You think you were right and my reply allows for that.
But also, everyone here seems to understand that mileage effects risk, so when you were asked about your mileage you were naive (compared to those here) not to realise why they were asking. Why did you think they were asking? All their other questions were also to assess risk (where's it stored, how old are you, accident history, value of vehicle etc). I doubt they were just being polite.

The words they used with you were wrong, and it is their fault. Naivety on the customer is allowed, their job is to seek clarity. They then failed because of their slow action (outside your cooling off).
That's why I'm sure speaking with the real boss at your broker will allow one of the conclusions I outlined to be achieved.

I recently opted out of my company car scheme. I took private business insurance. I was asked at that point what my predicted annual mileage was. I responded "not sure as I've just taken a new position with a new area" they responded "don't worry sir the estimate is only a prediction in order to process your application"

I also have another policy on the wife's car and again I was asked for an estimate on annual mileage. None of the above policy's have ever asked me to sign a declaration or informed me if I go over my estimate I'm not insured. So if that's being naive then I must be naive.

 

[2into1]

Clearly they went 'off script' and that is why I've been confident from the start it can be sorted with one phone call to the boss. But continuing to conflate their incompetence with your niavity (which was allowed), may leave you going round in circles.

 

[Digger]

Why would there be any on the broker? the broker was reliant on the information provided & provided the best cover based on the information given.

Whats the broker supposed to do ? double any mileage estimates, declare an extra 3 points on the license, put in a higher risk postcode to cover himself just in case.

In law the broker has a resonsibility to take reasonable care to act and advise his client. It is not an excuse to fail to notify of facts which they should be well aware of.

 

[andyinluton]

In law the broker has a resonsibility to take reasonable care to act and advise his client. It is not an excuse to fail to notify of facts which they should be well aware of.

He has taken reasonable care - he's asked how many miles a year the insured is going to do! the client has said 4-6K how many more questions does the broker need to ask re mileage?

When you were asked for your date of birth, did you realise thats because they need to know how old you are, not because they wan't to send you a birthday card!

 

[Lloydfred]

He has taken reasonable care - he's asked how many miles a year the insured is going to do! the client has said 4-6K how many more questions does the broker need to ask re mileage?

When you were asked for your date of birth, did you realise thats because they need to know how old you are, not because they wan't to send you a birthday card!

Your just being pedantic and I'm starting to wish I hadn't started the thread. The insurer issued the delegation after the cool off period, that's the point of all this.

 

[andyinluton]

But based 100% on the information you gave.

 

[Lloydfred]

But based 100% on the information you gave.

Exactly, it's law that you are allowed to read the details of a policy before the cool off period ends. On this occasion the document was issued after the cool off.....end of argument they failed to comply with the law of the land.

 

[andyinluton]

Ive just re-read the original post, they have not issued the documents after the end of the cool off period as thats a legal impossibility.

Legally:

By law, insurers must offer a minimum 14-day cooling-off period, during which you are entitled to cancel the policy.

The cooling-off period starts when you receive your documents, or when the cover begins, whichever is the later. But the insurer can still apply a fee to cover the cost of administration.

If you hadn't received the documents the cool off period hadn't started. By my calculations based on the dates you've given, you have until Tuesday to cancel.

Send the insurance company, not the broker, a letter first thing in the morning by special delivery confirming your cancellation & asking for the refund. Just make sure you've got a new policy in place first.

 

[Ocean Spirit]

He has taken reasonable care - he's asked how many miles a year the insured is going to do! the client has said 4-6K how many more questions does the broker need to ask re mileage?

When you were asked for your date of birth, did you realise thats because they need to know how old you are, not because they wan't to send you a birthday card!

The 2 examples aren't similar. The 2nd one about the date of birth is just bait. Ignore it Llyodfred.
Regards the 1st one @andyinluton I do get your point but still you need to know the consequence at the time not 2 weeks after.
When people take a PCP out with a milage restriction they understand that the consequence is shall we say about 7p per extra mile? So they are sometimes prepared to risk an extra 1000 miles.
Lets suppose that consequence wasn't clearly communicated or that it was a different consequence like return the car and pay a £1000 fine?
You'd seriously expect to know before you picked your milage and that is all Lloydfred is saying.

 

[Lloydfred]

The 2 examples aren't similar. The 2nd one about the date of birth is just bait. Ignore it Llyodfred.
Regards the 1st one @andyinluton I do get your point but still you need to know the consequence at the time not 2 weeks after.
When people take a PCP out with a milage restriction they understand that the consequence is shall we say about 7p per extra mile? So they are sometimes prepared to risk an extra 1000 miles.
Lets suppose that consequence wasn't clearly communicated or that it was a different consequence like return the car and pay a £1000 fine?
You'd seriously expect to know before you picked your milage and that is all Lloydfred is saying.

 

[Hantshog]

Alarm bells woul have rung for me when they quoted a mere £77. I pay £350.

 

[Lloydfred]

Update:

Yesterday I received a letter of termination of policy within 7 days from my insurance brokers. I obviously called them and informed them that a resolution had not been agreed and now I was being forced to further pay to keep the policy active, or lose my entire premium.

I informed the lady that,as stated they record all calls and I was requesting a copy of all recordings. I again went over the same old information about being not made aware of the points of the policy. I also again notified them that their online portal to view the policy documents doesn't work. I also again pointed out that the notification of millage and its terms & conditions arrived after the cool off period. So even if I had wanted to cancel the policy after reading the T&C's I couldn't.

At this point I agreed to pay the admin fee to change the policy estimated millage and I'd be lodging a written complaint, firstly with them, then the FCA. I also advised them to listen to my phone calls and maybe look at the way their advisers sell the finer points of the policy.

Today I received a call from them telling me they wanted to resolve the issue. Of course they continue to blame me, but are prepared to refund their part of the admin fee. They seem keen to resolve the issue by refunding me a further £17.

The whole point of this was never about the increase of the premium. It was about the fact if I had been on a trip and gone over my estimate of annual mileage I would of had to stop and transport my bus home on a low loader. No one would give me details of what was an acceptable percentage over run of my estimate. So now I have doubled my estimate at no cost other than an admin fee.

 

[ArunAlec]

Alarm bells woul have rung for me when they quoted a mere £77. I pay £350.

I think the £77 was for recovery, not for the insurance.

 

[Stoneybroke]

The insurance company holding you to an estimated number of miles seems to go against the normal English meaning of an estimate - an approximate calculation or judgement of the value, number, quantity, or extent of something...
So how can they penalise you if you do go over?
Very restrictive...
I went well over my first year estimate, upped it for the second year, but never considered it was set in stone as a maximum.
Another opportunity for them to wriggle out of their liability.
All the best with the complaint.

 

[ArunAlec]

My renewal has just arrived in the post. In the "key facts" it states that I can cancel within 14 days of paying for the renewal or the date of receipt of policy or renewal documentation, whichever is the later.
I'm with Comfort/Aviva but I would expect the "14 days from receipt" to be a standard caveat across the board.