Off hook up stays and portable solar panels

[MattBW]

I agree with Briwy, 100w + is what you would need to extend your use for that period of time without issue. I have an 80w panel on my t25 and I can get 5 or 6 days from a 100ah battery without too much trouble as the panel slows the drain down. With a bit more panel I reckon I could generate more than I use.

It does depend how many leisure batteries you have though, and how warm it is (the fridge will work harder if its hot).

120w as per Julian should give you a longer stay I imagine.

 

[Shadrack]

Hi guys,
Some useful info here as I am looking now to go solar. I think the portable type.

A question I have is that if I plug directly in to a rear 12v socket, will that charge both leisure batteries?

Cheers.

 

[Shadrack]

Oops sorry guys, I have just found the first page on this thread which I completely missed. I had searched and read so many threads on 'Solar' my head became a tad fried.... (over charged maybe?)..
So my understanding is that if I connect to one leisure battery, both will be charged or kept topped up?
I don't understand why we should not use a 12 volt socket to plug a in portable charger?

Cheers

 

[WelshGas]

Hi guys,
Some useful info here as I am looking now to go solar. I think the portable type.

A question I have is that if I plug directly in to a rear 12v socket, will that charge both leisure batteries?

Cheers.

Probably, without any problems, BUT I would suggest that a dedicated socket wired directly to the Rear Leisure Battery, a socket a little more robust and positive than the standard automotive 12v sockets, would be a better alternative.
Also, think carefully about some anti-theft system for your portable panel.

 

[WelshGas]

Oops sorry guys, I have just found the first page on this thread which I completely missed. I had searched and read so many threads on 'Solar' my head became a tad fried.... (over charged maybe?)..
So my understanding is that if I connect to one leisure battery, both will be charged or kept topped up?
I don't understand why we should not use a 12 volt socket to plug a in portable charger?

Cheers

Lots of electronics in the California so you either charge via the vehicle circuit, or directly to the battery as VW state.
The decision is yours.

 

[Shadrack]

Thank you welshgas,
That makes sense. A dedicated socket connected to a controller and then the rear leisure battery.

Cheers

 

[MattBW]

Yes I've added a Ctek connector direct to my battery and panel mppt, then I just plug in the panel when required.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Shadrack]

I am now googling various options.

Thanks Matt
I see the mppt has a blue tooth extra to enable you to see state of charge etc via a Bluetooth device. But without this extr it seems you can't see details.
This comes in at well over a £130 for a 15 or 20amp device.
I guess it's just personal choice for the convenience and ease of use.
Or is there an advantage over the £30'ish controllers with a fixed display?

Granny Jen mentioned earlier that the suitcase types are getting better and better. Any recommendations as to which types/makes to look out for. Prices etc.

Cheers

 

[MattBW]

There are a couple of threads on here about volt meters, amp meters and such have a search on this forum for BMV 700 to see one and NASA BM1 for another.

The first thread had lots of various options.
https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/bmv-700-battery-monitor.19844/
https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/nasa-bm-1-bluetooth-review.20041/#post-229101

You can tell the rough state of a battery with a simple volt meter that will cost a couple of quid but to know its true condition ideally needs the amps information. Thats when the above come into play. There are some good suggestions in that first thread of all price ranges. When you get into heavy loads and long cables you start to get voltage drop and that can make it harder to tell if the battery is ok.

Panels tend to either be rigid or semi flexible, generally the rigid ones are slightly more efficient but dont flex and bend like the flexble ones.

Mine is only 50w suitcase (25w panels are so cheap now and this is just two in parallel) which was only £70 with charge controller, the build quality isn't fancy but it works well and is small. It kicks out about 3 amps max in direct sun, but probably in general day to day more like 1.8 to 2 amps. This is more than my fridge uses so it extends my stay nicely without being massive.

 

[Shadrack]

Cheers Matt,
Very informative and helpful. Thank you.

I thought I knew about battery technology, how wrong was I. It's a minefield.
So many different types and uses.
What I have discovered so far with these modern ones is that they like to be used, that is the same of batteries of old.
But although modern batteries are fare more efficient they are delicate and sensitive.
A fully charged battery is around 12.75 volts (rest after a charge for twenty mins for a more accurate condition reading) a 75-80% charged battery is in the area of 12.4v. (Such a small difference in charge state)?
Now a lot of my research has been telling me to go lower than the 12.4 for any length of time is not to good. Occasional dips is said to be ok. But get down to the 11+votlts and you are shortening that battery life. Below 10+v and you have just made a brick.
Now as regards the vw leisure batteries I am assuming lower voltage protection is built into the campers electronics. Hopefully those rear 12v outlets. But I will be watching that control panel from now on. Along with my meter.

Those volt monitors you mention Matt seem a good idea and you can compare with a voltmeter and check occasionally that the tolerances have not shifted.

I myself will be looking at the 50w unit such as you have purchased as being smallish, portable and with a controller could be of use with my car or else where. (No perm fixings needed, but as Welshgas has mentioned earlier, watch out for the security aspect.
I have seen now these at (£60'ish). So as technology improves they can be throw away items after a year or so. (Sorry I meant eBay away)

It could be added to with another unit should the need arise.

Cheers

 

[MattBW]

Do you know if you have an AGM or a Lead acid battery?

I think I read that lead acid generally has about 50% of its capacity useable without any damage (so my 80ah battery probably good for 40ah of use) AGM you can use them much lower than 50% capacity without damage. They're apparently better at deep discharge?

Generally I go with the rule of below 11.8v being my lower limit and never had any issues in 2 years with my beach. You can buy little devices to cut the battery off if it goes below that to protect it from permanent damage but in practice I don't think Ive ever gone below 12.2v. On my Gfs old T25 she has one I installed because she kept knocking the 12v fridge on and killing her leisure battery.

I haven't used my solar as much as I expected because I can go 4 days with my modest beach battery already and the Waeco fridge pretty easily. We are away in Scotland soon so we plan to use it more but even then I suspect driving around will probably keep the battery in good condition. I know from my new monitor that my alternator is kicking out about 12.5amps. Nothing really has changed I just feel confident I know whats going on now.

 

[MattBW]

Btw you could probably also just get a semi flex panel they are thinner and tougher and could just be slipped under the mattress whilst travelling or hidden away somewhere when not in use.

 

[CYCLOPATH]

As somebody said above, the two batteries do last well , if you are frugal.

Do you know if you have an AGM or a Lead acid battery?

I think I read that lead acid generally has about 50% of its capacity useable without any damage (so my 80ah battery probably good for 40ah of use) AGM you can use them much lower than 50% capacity without damage. They're apparently better at deep discharge?

Generally I go with the rule of below 11.8v being my lower limit and never had any issues in 2 years with my beach. You can buy little devices to cut the battery off if it goes below that to protect it from permanent damage but in practice I don't think Ive ever gone below 12.2v. On my Gfs old T25 she has one I installed because she kept knocking the 12v fridge on and killing her leisure battery.

I haven't used my solar as much as I expected because I can go 4 days with my modest beach battery already and the Waeco fridge pretty easily. We are away in Scotland soon so we plan to use it more but even then I suspect driving around will probably keep the battery in good condition. I know from my new monitor that my alternator is kicking out about 12.5amps. Nothing really has changed I just feel confident I know whats going on now.

It would be a really good exercise to see just how long the batteries will last, as it could save a lot of expense, hassle and spaced used up in the van.
With not using the sat nav, fridge on three, occasional heater use.....it doesn't take much to heat a cali with a topper. Charging the odd phone, and use of led lights. My guess is 6 days would only get mine to 50% on the vw display( which I know is not very accurate.
Hmm....might try it.....so I have a 2015 standard SE, do you know what the original batteries are lead or AGM, as I wouldnt like to do any harm. I have been religious about monthly charging them. I do have an ammeter

 

[MattBW]

I always thought they were AGM on the SE but I'm not sure as I dont have one, the rear one you should be able to access to take a look. When I took the seat off my Beach it was lead acid to my surprise not the AGM listed in the build list in my paperwork. Its worked fine though tbh.

I have liked seeing what things use, gives me more confidence in the battery. My iphone draws about 0.3amps when charging, pretty negligible. I tried turning on all the LED lights in my Beach all at once, 0.5amps. Its only really the fridge and heater that use any serious amps.

Its a good idea to give it a go though, we had a 3 day weekend away and I started monitoring the voltage of mine, when we went home on the Monday it was still well about 12.4v when resting.

 

[CYCLOPATH]

I always thought they were AGM on the SE but I'm not sure as I dont have one, the rear one you should be able to access to take a look. When I took the seat off my Beach it was lead acid to my surprise not the AGM listed in the build list in my paperwork. Its worked fine though tbh.

I have liked seeing what things use, gives me more confidence in the battery. My iphone draws about 0.3amps when charging, pretty negligible. I tried turning on all the LED lights in my Beach all at once, 0.5amps. Its only really the fridge and heater that use any serious amps.

Its a good idea to give it a go though, we had a 3 day weekend away and I started monitoring the voltage of mine, when we went home on the Monday it was still well about 12.4v when resting.

I have never needed hook up, but I usually do a little driving.
I know the fridge uses quite a bit, but it seems to be very efficient, I notice it doesn't seem to come on very often. Same with the heating, with the roof down, In sub zero, with two of us, once the van is heated, we have to her the heating off at night or we get to hot

 

[Shadrack]

Hi Matt,
Yes I do have AGM batteries installed. You raised a good point on the levels or rate of discharge on this type of battery. As you have said and I have now discovered further that agm can be allowed to go as low as 50% discharge (some even a little lower). Which does equate to around a level of 11.8/9v before damage begins to occur.
So I think as others have said two batteries will give quite some time before a hookup may be needed.
so I will keep an eye on state of charge initially and see what uses what (no pun intended), I am thinking with around 80 - 100 watts of portable solar to support I will be comfortable knowing it will cover most of my adventures with amps to spare and not unnecessarily degrade the life of my battery.

A good informative thread.

Thankyou all, also JudyI for posting.

Shadrack.

 

[JohnGuppy]

Its a very good move to add a solar panel since fitting one my batteries are fully changed each day and have not had to plug in to the mains for several weeks now

 

[Auberg-ine]

listing some solar thoughts:

- while driving no need for extra charging
- in summer in need for a shaded spot to rest
- at night no need for panels outside

- for the same price of 120W fix I can get 180W mobile
- the mobile can be used at an outdoors party, on my boat, in the sun with the van in the shadow,...
- the briefcase panels can be positioned at 45% towards, and following the sun till the evening
- they can be used as sunshades at the windshield, the awning, as a heat protector in front of the fridge
- the cable can simply be brought in and plugged via the doors.
- while camping they can still be installed (ànd secured) in the roof rails
- they can be stored on the upper bed

What do I neglect in my reasoning? Is it because they might be less durable that I would not buy these, or is even this not a problem?

WATTSTUNDE WS180SF SunFolder 180Wp Solar Briefcase

You can order the WATTSTUNDE WS180SF SunFolder 180Wp Solar Briefcase at Solar Power Supply ➤ A complete assortment ➤ Expert Tips/Advice

www.solarpowersupply.eu

Or better?

 

[TripleBee]

I think it is more of "Fit and forget".
Once they are fitted, you don't have to look after them anymore.

 

[WelshGas]

listing some solar thoughts:

- while driving no need for extra charging
- in summer in need for a shaded spot to rest
- at night no need for panels outside

- for the same price of 120W fix I can get 180W mobile
- the mobile can be used at an outdoors party, on my boat, in the sun with the van in the shadow,...
- the briefcase panels can be positioned at 45% towards, and following the sun till the evening
- they can be used as sunshades at the windshield, the awning, as a heat protector in front of the fridge
- the cable can simply be brought in and plugged via the doors.
- while camping they can still be installed (ànd secured) in the roof rails
- they can be stored on the upper bed

What do I neglect in my reasoning? Is it because they might be less durable that I would not buy these, or is even this not a problem?

WATTSTUNDE WS180SF SunFolder 180Wp Solar Briefcase

You can order the WATTSTUNDE WS180SF SunFolder 180Wp Solar Briefcase at Solar Power Supply ➤ A complete assortment ➤ Expert Tips/Advice

www.solarpowersupply.eu

Or better?

Theft?

 

[Auberg-ine]

I feel a bit guilty now here. While I was looking for some info with the search tool here, I fell onto tens of solar threads, and just took the one with the fitting title, while I should have read it all. The wealth, ànd the problem of this forum. Anyway, after reading most of it, I still collected more pro's than cons for the mobile solution for my personal 'profile'. so I add to my list above here:
- I mostly do free camping, daily on the move, daily charged.
- but when I find a great spot, and feel comfortable to 'settle' for some days I don't want to feel a stress of taking care of my electric consuming, or having to move for that reason, so solar in general is desired.
- part of the fun of this settling is to roll out the awning, install the table and chairs, bbq, and so why not also the mobile panel then. In this 'pause' on that trip there's time to waist, so re-orienting the panel is just part of it. Like harvesting.
- if I would worry about theft there at that spot I would take in the table and chairs when leaving, and so also the panel. There are even ways to fix it at the roof, with security nuts in the rail.
- in some reviews it's mentioned that fix solutions would go 20 years, while mobile less. Which is irrelevant to me, seen the solar evolutions.
- the efficiency of the mobile panels might also be a bit less on itself, but this is countered by the efficiency of better orientation.
- but the argument that convinces me most to go for mobile, and which I neglected a bit here in this resume, is the need for permanent cleaning of these panels up there at the roof....

 

[Amarillo]

- but the argument that convinces me most to go for mobile, and which I neglected a bit here in this resume, is the need for permanent cleaning of these panels up there at the roof....

I’m 6 foot (1.83) and cleaning the panels is difficult. I have a plasterers step up, but even with that I find I have to stand on the tyres to wash the middle of the panels. And dirt and grime really do affect performance.

 

[WelshGas]

I’m 6 foot (1.83) and cleaning the panels is difficult. I have a plasterers step up, but even with that I find I have to stand on the tyres to wash the middle of the panels. And dirt and grime really do affect performance.

Use RainX. Useful for windows and Solar Panels. An anti rain liquid. Hardly need windscreen wipers as you watch the water bead upwards if driving. On the panel, rain and dirt just runs off. Bird droppings don't even stick. On the panel and side windows once or twice a year but windscreen more often because of the wipers and washer fluid.

 

[Amarillo]

Here’s a photo of my three year old panels.

 

[WelshGas]

Here’s a photo of my three year old panels.

My 5 yr old panel doesn't look a bit like that.