Paint bubbles at end of roof channels, T6

[stephen watson]

My roof has developed paint bubbles at the end of the roof channels, I think from water pooling there during lockdown. The van is still under 5 year extended warranty but VW refuse to do anything as it's outside the 3 year paint warranty. I've had the seal replaced and tape applied to the edge of the roof, but this is different as there is not the steel in the rubber seal to cause the galvanic corrosion. I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has the same problem and what they intend to do about it? As it started to appear after 4 years I feel morally VW should be offering some goodwill and fix it, but I don't think they will. I'm assuming as the roof is aluminium the problem is essentially cosmetic - I'd be really interested to hear some expert opinions on this (WG please?).
What would you do:
Pursue VW to fix it (lost cause in my opinion)
Leave it as it is
Peel paint off and recoat with either touch up paint or some type of primer. I'm hopeless with getting touch up paint to look professional, but as I intend to keep the van and it is out of sight my main concern is to minimise further damage at minimal cost.
Any other suggestions please?

 

[WelshGas]

My roof has developed paint bubbles at the end of the roof channels, I think from water pooling there during lockdown. The van is still under 5 year extended warranty but VW refuse to do anything as it's outside the 3 year paint warranty. I've had the seal replaced and tape applied to the edge of the roof, but this is different as there is not the steel in the rubber seal to cause the galvanic corrosion. I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has the same problem and what they intend to do about it? As it started to appear after 4 years I feel morally VW should be offering some goodwill and fix it, but I don't think they will. I'm assuming as the roof is aluminium the problem is essentially cosmetic - I'd be really interested to hear some expert opinions on this (WG please?).
What would you do:
Pursue VW to fix it (lost cause in my opinion)
Leave it as it is
Peel paint off and recoat with either touch up paint or some type of primer. I'm hopeless with getting touch up paint to look professional, but as I intend to keep the van and it is out of sight my main concern is to minimise further damage at minimal cost.
Any other suggestions please?

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That's a new one. Not seen that mentioned before.
Have you consulted VW Commercial, Customer Care regarding why the 5 Yr Warranty doesn't cover this.
If they still say no as the Paint Warranty against defects is 3 yrs then;
1. Ignore, as you say it is cosmetic.
2. Wait until its worse and get a good independent body shop to fix.
3. Possibly check with a Dent fixing company like Chip away.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

@stephen watson That’s really disappointing on a relatively new vehicle! Difficult to tell from the photographs but it looks like in each case there is a perforation in the paint. Was that the cause or subsequent to the paint blistering?
Difficult to know what action to take but do you have a friendly bodyshop who could have a look and advise you of the likely cause and also give you a repair estimate?
Subject to their opinion on cause I would then engage with VW Customer Services. They may not accept responsibility but might make a gesture of goodwill?

 

[Defender90]

My roof has developed paint bubbles at the end of the roof channels, I think from water pooling there during lockdown. The van is still under 5 year extended warranty but VW refuse to do anything as it's outside the 3 year paint warranty. I've had the seal replaced and tape applied to the edge of the roof, but this is different as there is not the steel in the rubber seal to cause the galvanic corrosion. I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has the same problem and what they intend to do about it? As it started to appear after 4 years I feel morally VW should be offering some goodwill and fix it, but I don't think they will. I'm assuming as the roof is aluminium the problem is essentially cosmetic - I'd be really interested to hear some expert opinions on this (WG please?).
What would you do:
Pursue VW to fix it (lost cause in my opinion)
Leave it as it is
Peel paint off and recoat with either touch up paint or some type of primer. I'm hopeless with getting touch up paint to look professional, but as I intend to keep the van and it is out of sight my main concern is to minimise further damage at minimal cost.
Any other suggestions please?

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View attachment 80702

Not sure that’s galvanic corrosion looks more like a paint defect not adhered properly

 

[Perfectos]

That is atrociously applied paint,

IMO water may have caused the issue, but only because the paint had an inclusion that has caused the issue.
The inclusion ( probably dirt) or damage to the paint has bridged the clear coat and colour coat and possibly the primer, the water ingress has caused a reaction on the Aluminium roof, possibly exacerbated by weathering such as freezing.

the area that will need to be repaired will be larger than the affected area, but a fairly localised repair should be entirely possible.

Good news is a localised repair will not be too evident due to the location, so the repair area will not need blending in too far. Although this will show as a colour variation if closely inspected.

Does the dealer you use have an in house VW approved Body shop? If so Get them to quote for the works, send the quote to VW
ask VW for an independent inspection,
have a written appraisal carried out yourself detailing what the Expert believes has caused this failure and the remedial measures required to return the vehicle to the condition it should be in had the paint been applied correctly at the factory

you could word something like this :
“the original factory applied paintwork has clearly failed through poor preparation and quality measures in the factory applied paint, through no fault of your own you now find that the paint has failed Prematurely, this is apparent on a 4 year old vehicle! which is unacceptable, particularly as the factory applied paint is both a decorative and more importantly a protective finish applied at the factory which is expressly to protect the vehicle, for the lifetime of that vehicle, (unless it is damaged by miss use or corrosion below the finish causes it to fail), which in this instance none of those apply. In this instance the paint has simply not been applied correctly at the factory and due to the design features of the vehicle, the paint failure has be exasperated and premature. therefore the finish is substandard and not as would naturally have been expected on such a new vehicle and therefore the finish applied to your Van is Not Fit for the Purpose intended, regardless of VW corrosion or paint warranty & policy, U.K. law states that a product should be fit for purpose, which clearly this is not, further a court would deem this to be not fit for the purpose on a £50,000 vehicle (change this value to suit) and it is not as it was intended i.e. to provide protection from weathering of the body, preventing weathering and corrosion.“
see what VW say.

 

[stephen watson]

Thank you all for very helpful replies. I agree that it is an original poor quality paint job. When the roof was inspected for corrosion due to the roof seal none was found and my local dealer therefore was responsible for fitting the new seal. They used some kind of masking tape for alignment and when it was removed it peeled off bits of paint, resulting in a years wait to go to a vw paint shop for repair. This makes me wonder how good the paint job is on the whole roof. The respray only covered the damaged bits and not the channels on the roof, which is one of the reasons vw has said this new issue isn't covered.
I agree with perfectos solution but if the problem is cosmetic don't know if I have the will to carry it through, with no certainty of success! I've already wasted so much time with VW trying to get the tape problem fixed. I think part of their strategy is to make things so time consuming and difficult they hope people will give up. Hardly the definition of customer care, but as we all know on this forum unfortunately all too common with VW.

 

[Perfectos]

Out of interest is the paint failure in the channel closest to the edge of the roof ?
the reason I ask & I hadn’t realised that your roof has had some third part paint repair, that third party the repair would have required the third party painter to blend in the new paint to the existing factory paint, a natural place for this would be at a moulding so the new paint was less apparent against the old paint. It is perfectly feasible that the failure is the point where the edge repair was blended in? I.e the blend out area

edir; why do you believe there is no metal in the remedial seal ? We’re you told this specifically?

edit : even if the failure is not in the channel closest to the roof, presumably the rear of the roof was blended into the channels ?

 

[stephen watson]

All the channels are affected so I'm sure it's nothing to do with the paint repair around a very limited area of the roof seal. The paint repair shop in Newcastle also told my local dealer their repair didn't cover the new area. I park on a hill and water pools at the end of the channels, which is where the blistering appeared. As the vehicle was stationary for long periods during lockdown I can only assume this is what "caused" the problem.

 

[Ozzy Pete]

Out of interest is the paint failure in the channel closest to the edge of the roof ?
the reason I ask & I hadn’t realised that your roof has had some third part paint repair, that third party the repair would have required the third party painter to blend in the new paint to the existing factory paint, a natural place for this would be at a moulding so the new paint was less apparent against the old paint. It is perfectly feasible that the failure is the point where the edge repair was blended in? I.e the blend out area

edir; why do you believe there is no metal in the remedial seal ? We’re you told this specifically?

edit : even if the failure is not in the channel closest to the roof, presumably the rear of the roof was blended into the channels ?

I theory what you say is fine but in practice you haven’t got a snowballs chance....I had a similar problem with paint on the bumpers out of warranty. Went through ALL the correct procedures with VW and they just turned round and said they won’t do anything. Not even goodwill. If you think about going down the threats route then think again. VW are a multi billion Euro company and will fight all and every case so as to not create presidents. This only works when clearly hundreds or thousands of people have been affected like with the corrosion problem on the roof.. My advice is please don’t waste your money and time on independent “Experts” as VW has all the experts they could ever need to call on.

 

[Perfectos]

All the channels are affected so I'm sure it's nothing to do with the paint repair around a very limited area of the roof seal. The paint repair shop in Newcastle also told my local dealer their repair didn't cover the new area. I park on a hill and water pools at the end of the channels, which is where the blistering appeared. As the vehicle was stationary for long periods during lockdown I can only assume this is what "caused" the problem.

Correctly applied paint and top coat should withstand water for life.
with hindsight I believe the repair has given you this issue.
IMO The pooling water issue is a red herring, as it’s a design feature of the vehicle, water will always collect there. Very seldom do vehicle sit perfectly level so pooling water is to be expected for prolonged periods.

the new paint will have been blended into the old, poor prep will see this type of failure At the blend point. Paint cannot simply be applied to the repair area it has to be blended into (onto) the original.
have you removed any of the paint bubble to see below ?
imo the paint bubble will now expand in size relatively rapidly due to the breach and weathering.
I would not be surprised to see the original factory applied paint under the area shown in your picture, which would point to the above assumption being correct.

i do not agree with OzzyPete, but respect his views, the comments may be a true reflection on his experience, but unless the consumer educates themselves and stands up for their legal rights which are specifically protected by U.k law, this type of thing will go unchecked and the consumer always looses out. Dieselgate is a classic example where the consumer is taken for a mug by the big corp!

it sounds like you may have made your mind up before your initial post and your comments, so conjecture will add little to assist you further.

The fact is that paint is not correctly applied by some one, the fact you have had remedial works further complicates this issue and muddies the water, but it doesn’t absolve responsibility.

I wish you well in Whatever you decide.

 

[SusiBus]

Of course the third party paint shop would say, "nothing to do with me mate". It can be tested for paint depth to establish if it has been resprayed. Water laying in the hollow is very common, and there doesn't seem to be any history of this causing this problem.

 

[Kernowboy]

I wonder if there has been some kind of contaminant present in the pooled rain water at some point? Hard to tell but looks to be some discolouration. Would be impossible to prove but could be a factor in what appears to be a really unusual issue.

 

[Ozzy Pete]

Correctly applied paint and top coat should withstand water for life.
with hindsight I believe the repair has given you this issue.
IMO The pooling water issue is a red herring, as it’s a design feature of the vehicle, water will always collect there. Very seldom do vehicle sit perfectly level so pooling water is to be expected for prolonged periods.

the new paint will have been blended into the old, poor prep will see this type of failure At the blend point. Paint cannot simply be applied to the repair area it has to be blended into (onto) the original.
have you removed any of the paint bubble to see below ?
imo the paint bubble will now expand in size relatively rapidly due to the breach and weathering.
I would not be surprised to see the original factory applied paint under the area shown in your picture, which would point to the above assumption being correct.

i do not agree with OzzyPete, but respect his views, the comments may be a true reflection on his experience, but unless the consumer educates themselves and stands up for their legal rights which are specifically protected by U.k law, this type of thing will go unchecked and the consumer always looses out. Dieselgate is a classic example where the consumer is taken for a mug by the big corp!

it sounds like you may have made your mind up before your initial post and your comments, so conjecture will add little to assist you further.

The fact is that paint is not correctly applied by some one, the fact you have had remedial works further complicates this issue and muddies the water, but it doesn’t absolve responsibility.

I wish you well in Whatever you decide.

Ok now please explain to us how many cases you have personally taken on with multi billion Euro companies ...AND WON. I’ve had personal experience with both VW and Mercedes Benz and threats of legal action and even the ombudsman got me nowhere. Only making me more out of pocket than I was previously. I’m not saying anyone should bend over and take it but sometimes you have to accept you are not going to get anywhere without spending thousands and thousands and still not getting anywhere.

 

[WelshGas]

Mine is parked outside for almost 7 yrs and roof gutters pristine.
If all the front gutters are like this then I would put my money on the masking and respraying.
Get some touch up paint kit and clean up. May find original finish underneath.

 

[Perfectos]

Ok now please explain to us how many cases you have personally taken on with multi billion Euro companies ...AND WON. I’ve had personal experience with both VW and Mercedes Benz and threats of legal action and even the ombudsman got me nowhere. Only making me more out of pocket than I was previously. I’m not saying anyone should bend over and take it but sometimes you have to accept you are not going to get anywhere without spending thousands and thousands and still not getting anywhere.

To date three occasions

edit: total expenditure by me Zero.

im obviously ok at presenting the facts, a clear an unequivocal case, back up by u.k. law. It’s not for everyone though


edit: the OP started this thread to ask for suggestions from other forum members, additional detail has come to light as the thread has naturally progressed.
suggestions is what he has got, your experience is different to mine, it does not make one right and one wrong, it merely highlights the atrocious customer service of large corporations, its for the OP to decide what his options are and how or if they will pursue them.
Your experience is valid & is highly relevant to the discussion, it is not in doubt!

 

[Ozzy Pete]

To date three occasions

edit: total expenditure by me Zero.

im obviously ok at presenting the facts, a clear an unequivocal case, back up by u.k. law. It’s not for everyone though


edit: the OP started this thread to ask for suggestions from other forum members, additional detail has come to light as the thread has naturally progressed.
suggestions is what he has got, your experience is different to mine, it does not make one right and one wrong, it merely highlights the atrocious customer service of large corporations, its for the OP to decide what his options are and how or if they will pursue them.
Your experience is valid & is highly relevant to the discussion, it is not in doubt!

Just that my 73 years on this planet I have found that what is legal and what is right are not necessarily the same. All I know is that even the Ombudsman would sooner back a large corporation than Joe blogs. I could guarantee you 100% that a pleb will absolutely get nowhere when taking on a large corporation like VW. You would be far better off spending a few quid doing this work yourself than hoping that a couple of years down the line you will get the work done for you free. If you think litigation is for you go ahead but you will regret it..

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

I would certainly explain the situation to VW Customer Services @stephen watson, you have nothing to loose. Stick to the facts and keep emotion/anger out of the dialogue. I have dealt with them twice and on both occasions I was happy with the outcome. Good luck.

 

[Perfectos]

Just that my 73 years on this planet I have found that what is legal and what is right are not necessarily the same. All I know is that even the Ombudsman would sooner back a large corporation than Joe blogs. I could guarantee you 100% that a pleb will absolutely get nowhere when taking on a large corporation like VW. You would be far better off spending a few quid doing this work yourself than hoping that a couple of years down the line you will get the work done for you free. If you think litigation is for you go ahead but you will regret it..

You responded to my post like it’s me with the issue !

you have, over several posts, attacked the suggestion and rationale offered. Based purely on your experience to date & being on this planet for 73 years.
you asked me if I had taken on multi billion Euro companies AND WON, to which I have responded.
you have stated that you previously tried and failed, costing you a lot of money.
Obviously my experience differs from yours, three successful remedies with zero cost to myself, but that’s maybe because, and I use your words, I approached it differently to a pleb would have and with facts backed up by Legislation.

you suggest that you are 100% positive that no one will be able to get a satisfactory resolution from a large corp & no one should be bent over, but you then advocate that the OP does nothing to try and get the situation rectified (based on your attempts), which suggests it’s you who has been bent over multiple times and therefore you find it inconceivable that someone may succeed where you clearly have previously failed.

There are numerous cases where people have had issues, some quite serious, with products and yet they have reached amicable solutions, at no cost to themselves. (many on this forum).

Laws are put in place to prevent the consumer from being “bent over”. It’s how you approach the issue that determines the outcome.

your posts in this thread have an aggressive undertone, I wonder if that’s why you have been unsuccessful in your various attempts to date ?

suffice to say you have your thoughts and I have mine.

The specific background from the OP has been further elaborated, which gives a slightly different tack to the original post, but most importantly the OP now has several suggestions and opposing views to consider and decide for themselves what course of action, if any, they will consider, which surely is the whole point of the OPs original thread, for others to offer a their views to create a balanced view point whilst giving positive support, not a single train of thought aggressively delivered aimed at shouting others down for offering a view at odds with yours.

 

[westfalia]

I wonder if that’s why you have

Changed your user name 3 times in the past year. Lol.

 

[Perfectos]

Changed your user name 3 times in the past year. Lol.

Interesting observation Westfalia, you obviously follow the OP!

 

[westfalia]

Interesting observation Westfalia, you obviously follow the OP!

I don't follow anyone, only the forum.

 

[stephen watson]

Thank you all once again for lots of interesting information and views. I've examined the fault again and a white coat is clearly in view under the bubbles (not that easy to see colour in photo). Also it is starting at the other end of the channels, where water has occasionally pooled. As the respray for the edge was for only a couple of points less than thumbnail size and the solar panels remained in situ I'm as certain as a layman can be that it's nothing to do with the roof seal repair. I agree in principle with the comments that I should pursue VW, especially as it started to appear after only 3.5 years, but life is too short for some battles.

Incidentally this is what VWCS told me:

Dear Mr Watson

Further to our telephone conversation on 18 December 2020.

This would be the final decision on this occasion. If you are unhappy with this outcome and require the information on how to escalate this, we refer you to The Motor Ombudsman, a CTSI-certified Alternative Dispute Resolution provider that we are prepared to engage with through the ADR procedure. Please find their contact details below:

http://www.themotorombudsman.org
Telephone number: 0345 241 3008
The Motor Ombudsman
71 Great Peter Street,
London,
SW1P 2BN

I appreciate this is not the response you were hoping for; however I am unable to offer any further assistance at this time.

Thank you for contacting Volkswagen UK.
Kind regards
Qamer Malik
Customer Relations Manager

Maybe it's good I've already gone through a process with VWCC. Has anyone any experience with the Ombudsman?

At the moment I don't feel like embarking on a fresh battle with VW. If I don't do you think it's best just to leave it, or to peel it back and paint it with some kind of grey paint which might not be too different from Mojave Beige, to stop it getting worse?

Paul(WG). I really appreciate your advice. I believe you used to have a Land Rover - what would you do please?

 

[Perfectos]

Is it me or You can see the factory paint below the damaged area ?

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

Thank you all once again for lots of interesting information and views. I've examined the fault again and a white coat is clearly in view under the bubbles (not that easy to see colour in photo). Also it is starting at the other end of the channels, where water has occasionally pooled. As the respray for the edge was for only a couple of points less than thumbnail size and the solar panels remained in situ I'm as certain as a layman can be that it's nothing to do with the roof seal repair. I agree in principle with the comments that I should pursue VW, especially as it started to appear after only 3.5 years, but life is too short for some battles.

Incidentally this is what VWCS told me:

Dear Mr Watson

Further to our telephone conversation on 18 December 2020.

This would be the final decision on this occasion. If you are unhappy with this outcome and require the information on how to escalate this, we refer you to The Motor Ombudsman, a CTSI-certified Alternative Dispute Resolution provider that we are prepared to engage with through the ADR procedure. Please find their contact details below:

http://www.themotorombudsman.org
Telephone number: 0345 241 3008
The Motor Ombudsman
71 Great Peter Street,
London,
SW1P 2BN

I appreciate this is not the response you were hoping for; however I am unable to offer any further assistance at this time.

Thank you for contacting Volkswagen UK.
Kind regards
Qamer Malik
Customer Relations Manager

Maybe it's good I've already gone through a process with VWCC. Has anyone any experience with the Ombudsman?

At the moment I don't feel like embarking on a fresh battle with VW. If I don't do you think it's best just to leave it, or to peel it back and paint it with some kind of grey paint which might not be too different from Mojave Beige, to stop it getting worse?

Paul(WG). I really appreciate your advice. I believe you used to have a Land Rover - what would you do please?

View attachment 80769

Oh, sorry Stephen, I didn’t realise that VWCS had already given you a final negative decision!
Difficult call for you now.

 

[Perfectos]

Oh, sorry Stephen, I didn’t realise that VWCS had already given you a final negative decision!
Difficult call for you now.

That decision was 18th December 2020 !
unfortunately the horse has bolted a long time ago.