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Pedders suspension

Or just fit the VW T32 rear springs as per the 1BB option.
Removes the sag, stiffens the rear significantly improving the handling without the extreme lift (or price tag) of the Pedders. As new set picked up on eBay for £50.

PRCode: 1BB = Suspension/shock absorption for rough road design
 
Just a word of caution

Sagging back end could be an indication of overloading and fitting heavy duty or uprated springs doesn't change the legal load carrying capacity of the rear axle.

For reference Beach is 1550kgs max. Ocean 1575kgs max. Both are 1610kgs on the front.

Safest starting point would be to weigh the loaded vehicle on a weighbridge initially, with passengers.

Implication of overloading an axle if checked is a fine of £300 or more plus licence points, the vehicle cannot be moved until excess weight is removed (passengers or holiday gear). Insurance invalid as using the vehicle outside its design spec.

Certainly uprate the rear to level up the suspension but it is easy to think that it is now possible to carry more.
 
Thanks for the all the info on the T32 springs and HD shocks, I've really looked into them. Personally I'm after the Pedders 45/50mm rear lift for my 4 Motion. Even with little weight on board my mud flaps and even the tow bar are regularly dragging on the ground when going into the dips of unpaved roads etc. I'm not looking for super stiff suspension, just firmer, much better damped and more height. What concerns me is from looking at your Beach before and after pictures in your other post is you are easily 20-30mm higher on the rear to my 4M SE on the before picture. If I fitted the T32 springs and it raised it by only 30mm (or less as 4M heavy) it would only be about the same height as you started with. I spoke to Pedders and they were clear in stating that if the rear is not heavy enough their suspension will be too firm but have also seen on another forum owners of T32 wanting softer springs to remove the harshness from their lightly loaded panel vans. So I'm thinking as the 4M SE has a fair bit more weight on the rear than the Beach, if I fit the Pedders we should be about even. As I'm only guessing all this from pictures, I would love to hear from anyone who has the T32 springs on a 4 Motion and what height difference it made and also anyone with Pedders on a 4M and is it too firm with no load??

Or just fit the VW T32 rear springs as per the 1BB option.

Removes the sag, stiffens the rear significantly improving the handling without the extreme lift (or price tag) of the Pedders. As new set picked up on eBay for £50.



PRCode: 1BB = Suspension/shock absorption for rough road design

IMG_3221.PNG
 
Thanks for the all the info on the T32 springs and HD shocks, I've really looked into them. Personally I'm after the Pedders 45/50mm rear lift for my 4 Motion. Even with little weight on board my mud flaps and even the tow bar are regularly dragging on the ground when going into the dips of unpaved roads etc. I'm not looking for super stiff suspension, just firmer, much better damped and more height. What concerns me is from looking at your Beach before and after pictures in your other post is you are easily 20-30mm higher on the rear to my 4M SE on the before picture. If I fitted the T32 springs and it raised it by only 30mm (or less as 4M heavy) it would only be about the same height as you started with. I spoke to Pedders and they were clear in stating that if the rear is not heavy enough their suspension will be too firm but have also seen on another forum owners of T32 wanting softer springs to remove the harshness from their lightly loaded panel vans. So I'm thinking as the 4M SE has a fair bit more weight on the rear than the Beach, if I fit the Pedders we should be about even. As I'm only guessing all this from pictures, I would love to hear from anyone who has the T32 springs on a 4 Motion and what height difference it made and also anyone with Pedders on a 4M and is it too firm with no load??



View attachment 26593
I presume that picture is taken with 150 + Kgms of passengers in the front? if not, then not really a true indication of the vehicle stance.
I have a 2014 180 4 Motion and the rear end certainly doesn't sag when loaded even with the towbar bike rack and I have the Weigh Bridge certificate to show it is within its weight limits, even when loaded with water, but then we travel light. No driveway awning, barbecues , extra chairs etc: but then there are only 2 of us.
 
Thanks for the all the info on the T32 springs and HD shocks, I've really looked into them. Personally I'm after the Pedders 45/50mm rear lift for my 4 Motion. Even with little weight on board my mud flaps and even the tow bar are regularly dragging on the ground when going into the dips of unpaved roads etc. I'm not looking for super stiff suspension, just firmer, much better damped and more height. What concerns me is from looking at your Beach before and after pictures in your other post is you are easily 20-30mm higher on the rear to my 4M SE on the before picture. If I fitted the T32 springs and it raised it by only 30mm (or less as 4M heavy) it would only be about the same height as you started with. I spoke to Pedders and they were clear in stating that if the rear is not heavy enough their suspension will be too firm but have also seen on another forum owners of T32 wanting softer springs to remove the harshness from their lightly loaded panel vans. So I'm thinking as the 4M SE has a fair bit more weight on the rear than the Beach, if I fit the Pedders we should be about even. As I'm only guessing all this from pictures, I would love to hear from anyone who has the T32 springs on a 4 Motion and what height difference it made and also anyone with Pedders on a 4M and is it too firm with no load??



View attachment 26593
Sorry off topic, but what solar panels are those, would you recommend and where can they be purchased?
 
I presume that picture is taken with 150 + Kgms of passengers in the front? if not, then not really a true indication of the vehicle stance.
I have a 2014 180 4 Motion and the rear end certainly doesn't sag when loaded even with the towbar bike rack and I have the Weigh Bridge certificate to show it is within its weight limits, even when loaded with water, but then we travel light. No driveway awning, barbecues , extra chairs etc: but then there are only 2 of us.

The picture was taken with no passengers and about 120kg of load including all the wine in the seat drawer. To be fair the picture is a bit misleading as it was taken from above the roofline. Here is one I have just taken (with same load) to show the van's natural stance. Wheel centre to top of arch 40cm rear, 44cm front. Rear mudflap to ground 10cm. 65k miles on the clock. Maybe the springs are just getting soft in their old age.

IMG_3225.JPG
 
Sorry off topic, but what solar panels are those, would you recommend and where can they be purchased?

Yes I can highly recommend the solar panels I have and only £120 ish per 100w panel. I use them a lot to charge my e-mtb battery. Very long guarantee and seem good quality. They are not bonded directly to the roof but instead I applied car wrap vinyl on the roof first then fixed the panels down with automotive double sided tape then bonded just edges. Can all be removed without a trace and invisible from normal eye level. Also have a very neat way to get cables inside too. I'm traveling up through France at the moment so will post the panel details and some install pics if wanted when I get back on Friday.

IMG_2091.JPG
 
The picture was taken with no passengers and about 120kg of load including all the wine in the seat drawer. To be fair the picture is a bit misleading as it was taken from above the roofline. Here is one I have just taken (with same load) to show the van's natural stance. Wheel centre to top of arch 40cm rear, 44cm front. Rear mudflap to ground 10cm. 65k miles on the clock. Maybe the springs are just getting soft in their old age.

View attachment 26594
So add, 150 Kgm of passengers in front ?

Oh, and mine has done 60,000 miles and still no sag.
 
Yes I can highly recommend the solar panels I have and only £120 ish per 100w panel. I use them a lot to charge my e-mtb battery. Very long guarantee and seem good quality. They are not bonded directly to the roof but instead I applied car wrap vinyl on the roof first then fixed the panels down with automotive double sided tape then bonded just edges. Can all be removed without a trace and invisible from normal eye level. Also have a very neat way to get cables inside too. I'm traveling up through France at the moment so will post the panel details and some install pics if wanted when I get back on Friday.

View attachment 26595
Thanks, I'd be interested in further details at some point. Enjoy the rest of your trip!
 
So add, 150 Kgm of passengers in front ?

Oh, and mine has done 60,000 miles and still no sag.

So add, 150 Kgm of passengers in front ?

Oh, and mine has done 60,000 miles and still no sag.

Errr... what on earth is putting 150kg in the front going to show / prove???!! IMO the back is too low! Even the rear drive shafts are higher outboard than in! FYI my 80kg getting in behind the wheel drops the drivers door by about 3mm. I doubt 2 people would make the whole front drop by even 5mm. Take another look at my pictures then imagin the front being 5mm lower and the back a mm or 2 lower as the rear will also take some of the weight of the human ballast. Does the stance look good now? I have very clearly stated what I want and why I want it. IMO the rear suspension on every Cali I have had is soft, under damped and too low. My current 4M being the worst yet and proving to be a problem because of the off beat places one can take it. You are clearly so very lucky to own the most perfect California ever. Please forgive those of us who are less fortunate and need to discuss healing our poor unworthy and shameful vans.
 
Errr... what on earth is putting 150kg in the front going to show / prove???!! IMO the back is too low! Even the rear drive shafts are higher outboard than in! FYI my 80kg getting in behind the wheel drops the drivers door by about 3mm. I doubt 2 people would make the whole front drop by even 5mm. Take another look at my pictures then imagin the front being 5mm lower and the back a mm or 2 lower as the rear will also take some of the weight of the human ballast. Does the stance look good now? I have very clearly stated what I want and why I want it. IMO the rear suspension on every Cali I have had is soft, under damped and too low. My current 4M being the worst yet and proving to be a problem because of the off beat places one can take it. You are clearly so very lucky to own the most perfect California ever. Please forgive those of us who are less fortunate and need to discuss healing our poor unworthy and shameful vans.
I don't see how you can compare a partly loaded vehicle regarding its stance parked up without including at least a driver, if not driver and passenger into the calculations, but then you obviously know better .
Mines level after 60,000 miles, and its been to some very strange places and travelled some very rough roads. Just saying.
My 4M probably is perfect then compared to yours.
Also, I don't see how this can be just 4Motion related.Yes, the rear axle and Haldex coupling is extra on the 4M, compared to the FWD equivalent, but those components are part of the drivetrain and what you are measuring is the body height over the wheel centre, so you should get the same effect on a FWD equivalent vehicle as it is the body + load that is carried by the suspension, not drivetrain and wheels.
 
I don't see how you can compare a partly loaded vehicle regarding its stance parked up without including at least a driver, if not driver and passenger into the calculations, but then you obviously know better .
Mines level after 60,000 miles, and its been to some very strange places and travelled some very rough roads. Just saying.
My 4M probably is perfect then compared to yours.
Also, I don't see how this can be just 4Motion related.Yes, the rear axle and Haldex coupling is extra on the 4M, compared to the FWD equivalent, but those components are part of the drivetrain and what you are measuring is the body height over the wheel centre, so you should get the same effect on a FWD equivalent vehicle as it is the body + load that is carried by the suspension, not drivetrain and wheels.

Hey WelshGas, clearly you are very knowledgeable in all things Cali related and no one would deny you haven't been of great help to numerous folk on here but sometimes it does appear you are in paid employ of VW given your unwillingness to find any fault in the van.
Of course you do not have to agree with someone's opinion of a 'fault' but your regular posting to express disagreement does seem rather pointless to the discussion in hand and dare I suggest provocative.
With respect, may I suggest you stick to what you're good at helping those in need and not dismissing people's concerns just because you do not agree with them.
 
Hey WelshGas, clearly you are very knowledgeable in all things Cali related and no one would deny you haven't been of great help to numerous folk on here but sometimes it does appear you are in paid employ of VW given your unwillingness to find any fault in the van.
Of course you do not have to agree with someone's opinion of a 'fault' but your regular posting to express disagreement does seem rather pointless to the discussion in hand and dare I suggest provocative.
With respect, may I suggest you stick to what you're good at helping those in need and not dismissing people's concerns just because you do not agree with them.
The difference is I live in the real world. The number of posts on the Forum and other sites relating to a “saggy “ rear end on the 4Motion as being a problem are in the minority and the most common cause will be overloading, beyond the specified Gross Vehicle Weight.
You have every right to disagree, but unless you have evidence to back up your claim I will just ignore your comments .
There are many problems with the vehicle that are VW related, but this isn’t one of them.
If you want to raise/ lower the suspension that’s your choice, but do it based on evidence and realise that not every fault is due to VW, sometimes it’s the owners fault.
 
Disagree all you like. Truth hurts. Evidence is king.
 
I don't see how you can compare a partly loaded vehicle regarding its stance parked up without including at least a driver, if not driver and passenger into the calculations, but then you obviously know better .
Mines level after 60,000 miles, and its been to some very strange places and travelled some very rough roads. Just saying.
My 4M probably is perfect then compared to yours.
Also, I don't see how this can be just 4Motion related.Yes, the rear axle and Haldex coupling is extra on the 4M, compared to the FWD equivalent, but those components are part of the drivetrain and what you are measuring is the body height over the wheel centre, so you should get the same effect on a FWD equivalent vehicle as it is the body + load that is carried by the suspension, not drivetrain and wheels.
Possibly not what you meant but-

The drivetrain up to the point that it connects to the driveshafts is included in the vehicle sprung weight and has a bearing on the ride height/ground clearance.
The only parts that don't effect the weight are the 'unsprung' components. Wheels, hubs, brakes, springs, lower suspension arms and driveshafts in the case of the 4M.

Possible solution that I haven't seen mentioned is Coilover suspension units as the height can be adjusted over a certain range manually, only snag could be that these are usually for lowering purposes.

Personally I was more concerned with lowering my 4M which seems odd that some have too low a ride height.
 
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Possibly not what you meant but-

The drivetrain up to the point that it connects to the driveshafts is included in the vehicle sprung weight and has a bearing on the ride height/ground clearance.
The only parts that don't effect the weight are the 'unsprung' components. Wheels, hubs, brakes, springs, lower suspension arms and driveshafts in the case of the 4M.

Possible solution that I haven't seen mentioned is Coilover suspension units as the height can be adjusted over a certain range manually, only snag could be that these are usually for lowering purposes.

Personally I was more concerned with lowering my 4M which seems odd that some have too low a ride height.
So that would be the Prop shaft, Haldex and Rear Differential?
 
So that would be the Prop shaft, Haldex and Rear Differential?
All mounted above the springs therefore part of the body weight. Independent rear suspension set up on Cali with both 2 wheel drive and 4 wheel drive,

VW 4M shows basic parts, car shown but Cali the same. Diff mounted directly to chassis.
 
Thanks for the all the info on the T32 springs and HD shocks, I've really looked into them. Personally I'm after the Pedders 45/50mm rear lift for my 4 Motion. Even with little weight on board my mud flaps and even the tow bar are regularly dragging on the ground when going into the dips of unpaved roads etc. I'm not looking for super stiff suspension, just firmer, much better damped and more height. What concerns me is from looking at your Beach before and after pictures in your other post is you are easily 20-30mm higher on the rear to my 4M SE on the before picture. If I fitted the T32 springs and it raised it by only 30mm (or less as 4M heavy) it would only be about the same height as you started with. I spoke to Pedders and they were clear in stating that if the rear is not heavy enough their suspension will be too firm but have also seen on another forum owners of T32 wanting softer springs to remove the harshness from their lightly loaded panel vans. So I'm thinking as the 4M SE has a fair bit more weight on the rear than the Beach, if I fit the Pedders we should be about even. As I'm only guessing all this from pictures, I would love to hear from anyone who has the T32 springs on a 4 Motion and what height difference it made and also anyone with Pedders on a 4M and is it too firm with no load??



View attachment 26593

When you get a chance @Skewif, it'd be handy if you can identify what springs you have in the rear so you have a starting block. Likewise @WelshGas this would be useful to know given your zero sag. You might be able to see through the wheel arch with a rag to wipe the dirt off or failing that you'll be on your back under the rear wheel. You're looking for crude paint markings on the spring, typically 3 x pink or 2 x white, etc.

Before even talking about springs you will appreciate with 65k miles the rear spring top and bottom rubber mounts will not be like new so you are likely losing a little height gain from here. Small monies so definitely renew these if you do swap out the springs.

There's a vast array of springs applicable for the T5/6, identified by their colour markings and shared across the complete T5/6 range.
For the Cali the following list of rear springs are factory installed in this order of increasing weight...
3x white, 3x pink, 4x pink, 1x white, 2x white, and then for 'bad roads' we step up to...
1x grey, 2x grey, 3x grey, 4x grey and so it goes on...
Each spring increment covers a weight range of approx. 50kg, e.g.. 1200-1250kgs.
So seems reasonable to presume that after the factory spring selection all Cali variants come out at the same height irrespective of their differing weights due to model & options. eg. Ocean/Beach/4Motion/no.of seats/DSG or manual/spare wheel or not/ etc.
But the difference in weight between the installed springs could be between 50 & 100kgs.
And then given its likely a different allocation between springs & weight could have occurred when the T6 was introduced its not really a surprise that with all these potential combinations why we have some Cali's appearing lower/higher than others for a similar specification.

It's unlikely we will glean what these actual weight loadings are for each spring type so all we have to work with is this progressive loading scale. I.e. See what you've got and best guess which spring further up the list you want to jump to!

The 'uprated' spring of choice on the Caliboard.de forum is the 4x grey which is what comes fitted to the 1BB Cali but also the T32 4motion model. I would guess the slightly less rated 3x grey is the T32 2WD model.

It could be a useful exercise just to understand this range of rear springs currently fitted to our Calis if people want to post their Cali model/ rear spring colour. Here's an initial stab with known Calis from here along with the German Caliboard forum and ordered in an increasing load… (included the Beach 4wd although we know its unavailable here)


3x Pink T6 Beach 2WD
3x Pink T5.2 Beach 4WD
3x Pink T5.2 SE 2WD (no spare wheel)

4x Pink T5.2 SE 2WD (with spare wheel)
4x Pink T5.2 SE 2WD
4x Pink T5.2 Beach 4WD
4x Pink T6 Beach 4WD (DSG)

2x White T5.2 Beach 4WD (manual)
2x White T5.2 Beach 4WD (DSG)
2x White T6 Ocean 2WD
2x White T6 Ocean 4WD (DSG)



As to your more specific concerns re knowing what your van would look like you could see if @Del Boy (on the other T6 suspension thread) would post a pic as he's swapped to the T32 springs with a T6 204 4M, albeit the front as well, but again you really need the paint marks, are they the 3xgrey (2wd?) or 4xgrey (4wd) versions? I think @Gavrobb is about to go this route as well (2xgrey to 4xgrey) so you could pm him as he's got the same 204 4M but again in T6 guise.
See what you have spring wise but you will only improve things swapping to the 4xgrey, there's enough folk on the Caliboard forum that have done it with 4M and rate it. I think there's a high chance it will give you the lift you're after but worst case you can always add in a Weitec spring distance kit to get you exactly where you want to be.

A quick look couldn't find any T5 SE 4M shots but I came across these Beach 4M shots from the Caliboard forum which may be of help.

4Motion Beach, (2x white to 4x grey) before & after...

image.jpg image-1.jpg
 
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Just to muddy the waters

My 2017 (March) T6 4M DSG spring markings

Front markings HFH Grey-Grey-Green.

Rear markings AHL White-White
 

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