Pedders suspension

[Skewif]

Interesting point and you had me second guessing the rear springs upgrade for a bit there BUT... you do have to admit that the current set up on the 4M (mine anyway) is that they are sagging, admittedly its pretty level for it - as hard as this is to tell given the total lack of any real FLAT, no sloping areas in the outdoor real world. I stand by them sagging at the rear too much as the camber on the wheels is more than I believe it really should be - I'm concerned about tire scrub its so bad. Your optical illusion suggestion is really interesting tho and I do worry that you are correct and we are chasing a non issue.

Anyway - to answer your earlier Q Skewif, I'll get a full report on here this week - in to get the springs done tomorrow. As for driving performance - I'm not really one for looking to get sports car performance out a van so its hard to say. My main concern on a vehicle is performance in rough conditions (and currently - how warm can the seat go, how good is the stereo and how timing the pre-heater before I brave the cold run out to the van this winter here in the North!!) It drives fine really having had pickups before this one. Not changing the dampers yet but will consider. I have both F&R T32 springs (cotrim.co.uk) here and would consider picking up the front if needed.

Great info as always on here. Thanks

Sorry if for a moment you were having doubts but I was choosing my words very carefully in the hope they would not have that effect. According to VW the 4 grey rough road spring should add 20mm hence why I was talking greater lifts.
I'm totally with you and would be doing the same if I had your van. 20mm may not sound a lot but visually it can have quite an impact. I look forward to hearing how you find them.

Re the stereo, I found the low bass really lacking in the std front speaker setup so followed advice on another forum and lined the inside of the door and door card around the speakers with sound deadening sheets. Very noticeable improvement in the lower bass and gets rid of the irritating resonance in the upper base. A very worthwhile cheap mod if you like music with a bass line.

 

[Gavrobb]

According to VW the 4 grey rough road spring should add 20mm hence why I was talking greater lifts.

That would be just perfect I think - certainly liking the look a lot better on your photos - level or not. Will report back tomorrow - off to do it now..

 

[Gavrobb]

Hey - @Skewif - you called it! 20mm height gain from going from 2x white original to 4x grey (410mm to 430mm) Looks remarkably less 'saggy', drives MUCH more taught and far less bumpy like an overloaded suspension was tending to feel before. Probably psychological but it feels about a foot taller to drive!

The camber on the rear looks MUCH more normal now. Hopefully the saving on tire wear will pay off the spring cost pretty quickly

Thanks for all the help - I'll post photos later. Will be considering the dampers also to see if I can get a bit more height like yours (dont fancy getting those red springs in there - the 4x were tight past the drive shafts as it is...

Much appreciated gents - feels much more fit for purpose

 

[Skewif]

Hey - @Skewif - you called it! 20mm height gain from going from 2x white original to 4x grey (410mm to 430mm) Looks remarkably less 'saggy', drives MUCH more taught and far less bumpy like an overloaded suspension was tending to feel before. Probably psychological but it feels about a foot taller to drive!

The camber on the rear looks MUCH more normal now. Hopefully the saving on tire wear will pay off the spring cost pretty quickly

Thanks for all the help - I'll post photos later. Will be considering the dampers also to see if I can get a bit more height like yours (dont fancy getting those red springs in there - the 4x were tight past the drive shafts as it is...

Much appreciated gents - feels much more fit for purpose

Great news! Glad to hear you got what you wanted. I know what you mean about it feeling much taller. Uprated dampers won't give you any more height but you may find with a heavy load the std dampers will not be adequate to control the new springs and weight. I don't know how the T6 shocks compare to the T5's but if you get any sort of bounce when loaded I wouldn't hesitate to stick a pair of uprated shocks on. It's a 20 min job and makes a huge difference to how light the whole van feels even with a maxed out load.
Happy driving and I look forward to seeing some pictures..

 

[Skewif]

Talking of shocks... I have mine booked in to fit the Sachs rough road (HD) front shocks. Also will be raising it 30mm, fitting all new HD bushes/top mounts and fitting the full set of Rival underbody protection (well it is Xmas).
Then all I need to do is wait for nearly 6 months for the snow to melt on the Alps high altitude tracks so I can go test it all. Does anyone know of some decent length all vehicle byways I can try here? Also had my Latitude Cross tyres fitted last night. I'm impressed with how quiet they are considering they're quite chunky. Very pleased indeed.

 

[Gavrobb]

I like those Latitude's - looks like they are on 17" Thunders? Are they 235's? They look great.
I have a set of the 18" original alloys for summer that I'm tempted to try Wills size upgrade on and squeeze in. Be a good compliment to the Nokian winters we run on 17's.

 

[Skewif]

I like those Latitude's - looks like they are on 17" Thunders? Are they 235's? They look great.
I have a set of the 18" original alloys for summer that I'm tempted to try Wills size upgrade on and squeeze in. Be a good compliment to the Nokian winters we run on 17's.

Yes they are on thunders 235/55r17. A few other members have them fitted too. I saw Wills and the oversized ones look awesome on the 18s. I think as they have quite a hard compound they should offer much better grip in summer compared to my all seasons. I’m on the lookout for some spare wheels for winter tyres too. Time will tell how much I will ever use then though.

 

[Gavrobb]

Good feedback Skewif - the 17's are a nice size and for what we are doing the 18's (on the original Conti's ) feel fragile so the oversize latitudes like Wills is a nice option to be able to run the factory wheels (and get a bit of height gain!). I can see me also trying it for the summer - thanks for the feedback on compound - I did debate these for winters but you've confirmed the Weatherproofs were a better choice (they wear fast in the warmer temps tho despite being all seasons) I also wanted the M&S rating for the Pyrenees.

Spare wheels I was just chatting about this week - a lot of Thunders for sale online right now with almost new factory tires on - couple guys here are re-selling the summer tires at a price that almost pays for the wheels. I wish I'd gone this route rather than aftermarket wheels - I'm not so pleased with mine.

 

[Skewif]

Yes it seems some of the Thunders are almost free when they have new tyres fitted and selling for less than 17" steel wheels. Hopefully I'll find a set with new-ish winters on. Think they look really nice in black so may will get them painted too.

 

[jcshnz]

All mounted above the springs therefore part of the body weight. Independent rear suspension set up on Cali with both 2 wheel drive and 4 wheel drive,

VW 4M shows basic parts, car shown but Cali the same. Diff mounted directly to chassis.

To add more clarification, in the case of diffs bolted to the chassis, the components attached, such as location arms and driveshafts to hubs will be treated as 1/2 sprung and 1/2 unsprung.
There's no doubt that the 4 motion is much heavier unsprung than the 2 wheel drive.
I don't 'overload' my 4M as WG speculates (an odd thing to do as he is always banging on about evidence) but the rear is still too low. To the extent that the tow bar regularly catches on the road in steep approach angles. My springs turn out to be 1 pink and 2 white. I'm just trying to find outwit that means. Anyone have a clue? What might be of use is peeps measuring the wire diameter o the spring as this is a parameter in measuring spring rate.
Cheers James

 

[WelshGas]

To add more clarification, in the case of diffs bolted to the chassis, the components attached, such as location arms and driveshafts to hubs will be treated as 1/2 sprung and 1/2 unsprung.
There's no doubt that the 4 motion is much heavier unsprung than the 2 wheel drive.
I don't 'overload' my 4M as WG speculates (an odd thing to do as he is always banging on about evidence) but the rear is still too low. To the extent that the tow bar regularly catches on the road in steep approach angles. My springs turn out to be 1 pink and 2 white. I'm just trying to find outwit that means. Anyone have a clue? What might be of use is peeps measuring the wire diameter o the spring as this is a parameter in measuring spring rate.
Cheers James

The evidence is in VWs OWN technical drawings. The height from wheel centre to high point of the wheel arch is greater on the front than the rear, with the vehicle on level ground, or measure from the side panel body line to the high point of the wheel arch. Whichever way you do it the result is the same. The gap from wheel to body is greater at the front than the rear. THERE IS NO 4Motion SAG.

https://umbauportal.de/documents/10...orter_T5_Kombi_KR_LR_alle_Dach_DE_11-2013.pdf

 

[B J G]

The evidence is in VWs OWN technical drawings. The height from wheel centre to high point of the wheel arch is greater on the front than the rear, with the vehicle on level ground, or measure from the side panel body line to the high point of the wheel arch. Whichever way you do it the result is the same. The gap from wheel to body is greater at the front than the rear. THERE IS NO 4Motion SAG.

https://umbauportal.de/documents/10...orter_T5_Kombi_KR_LR_alle_Dach_DE_11-2013.pdf

View attachment 40185

VB Air Spring installers set the front slightly higher by 5mm than the rear. Wheel centre to body arch.
Bilstein ABP set the same front and rear.

I haven't found a level place to check what measurements I get at the arches with the spirit level on the cooker top method of levelling as yet.