REMAP

[Bubble]

Hi all

Thought this might be an interesting topic!
Stopped off at one of these auto electrician / media & sound specialists today to enquire about a sat nav unit. He went on to mention that he could up my vans BHP by about 30 which would take it from 174 to a possible 210 bhp. This would set me back £240... Apparently the results are very noticeable and the fuel consumption is better!
Sounds great..... BUT something tells me that it's wrong to tamper with something that's not broken however the thought of the extra talk is tempting ?????

 

[T5WOB]

get it done .makes a lot of difference .all round to the driving of the van .i have all my vws remap .i use REVO i think there the best out there for remaps .had my van done at vanwork in portland dorset .takes about a hour to do .they can do the face life vans to .

 

[Bubble]

Sounds great... Can you explain a little more about the differences & can it overwork the engine? Why isn't this done in the factory if economy is better? It seems madness

 

[T5WOB]

the power is in there but with all cars bikes etc .they have to keep it to a limit .the laws of new cars etc .i never have a remap map to go faster .every thing happens so much quicker with a remap.so your not pushing your foot to the floor to change gear all the time .i allways say its like having a van full of bricks .you unload and drive away the van just fills so light and quicker to drive .have a look at the pipercross lift time air filters to you get about 5.bhp more from this to .as vw do not change the air filter until 80k .http://www.vanworx.co.uk/vw-transporter-tuning/revo-remaps/http://www.vanworx.co.uk/vw-transporter-tuning/filters/

 

[AndyFromTheBrac]

A lot of it is to do with the marketing of manufacturers engines, they like a "range" of power plants rather than one in various states of tune. All crazy but the people I've spoken to tell me the remaps are all fine if you use one of the recognised companies.

The T5 boys in the other forum swear by em. I had an Audi A3 2.0T Quattro remapped using a device that plugged into the OBDII port & I could dial in either "track", "fast road" or "economy" maps, then return it to normal for the service "Economy" gave me about 20% better fuel consumption & still gave 20bhp more. Like you say, just does not compute! (BTW "track" was mental and it could devour S3s with that setting, but I was a bit wary of using that one too much).

I think as long as the vehicle can take the extra power & has decent running gear to start with (a 174 sportline up by 30bhp should be no problem). I'd be less enthusiastic about doing an 84bhp van to 140, which I've seen, but that's maybe just me? A 10-30% increase is probably enough.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Bubble]

I shall speak to the guy again .. I doubt it's REVO he's using. Ill find out & post Tommorow. I've looked at revo's website & it looks professional. Who would have guessed that there are different qualities in remapping !
I think I'd rather drive 20 miles & she'll out an extra £ 60 if the product is right, after all they ain't a cheap motor.

 

[danny13]

If its a post 2007 174 go for a DPF delete -Pendle - more expensive than others, but he's the master of the remap.The mpg savings will recoup your invest very quickly at current diesel prices!
http://www.pendleperformance.com/dpf-delete.php

 

[Stu]

Superchips also have the forum discount available to VIP's. You could get a Bluefin and do it yourself.

 

[Bubble]

Asked a guy in the parts / service department today at Vw van centre Bradford about chipping & any local recommendations ...... He mentioned a company called vtune in Leeds who do a lot & the price sounds good at £200. They will do it in house or on site taking about 1.5 hours. In the background a guy asked why would I want to go and mess about with an already healthy powerful engine? He went on to add that you will regret it when my turbo goes or I need to replace the ecu etc.
It's so difficult to decide when you get conflicting advice, however I don't think the person was technically minded just a little set in his ways.
I've also heard that chipping has moved on since the 90's ...
What's the advice on choosing this guy over any other company that charges £ 240 ,£299, £340 :?:

 

[danny13]

remapping due to a DPF delete is a huge can of worms, subject to much debate on another T5 forum.

General view is that DPFs are bad for your pocket via increased engine wear, failures, lower mpg, not to mention the £1000 it will cost when your DPF needs to be changed. I have had 2 174s, one with DPF and one without DPF. The newer 174 with DPF achieved 5mpg less than my older one without.

 

[Bubble]

Does that mean that remapping & avoiding bypassing a DPF filter is ok ( if that's a possibility ) in other just tweaking, however if your trying to avoid all this re generation so you tell the ecu there isn't a DPF etc can possibly cause unforeseen problems ( possibility)
Chers

 

[Stu]

This is a subject that I know quite a lot about.

Some things to consider -

Don't go for the highest quoted output (These are often inflated numbers because in many circles it's bigger numbers that sell). Horsepower is pub talk, Torque does the talking on the road.

You aren't looking for any huge gains, you want better drivability and perhaps some better fuel consumption.

A remap is going to put greater stresses on your drivetrain (increased fueling, increased boost pressure = increased torque) If you do have a more powerful map then you will put more significant stresses on parts such as the clutch, turbo and driveshafts. Done sensibly this is not going to cause an issue.

Things brings me on to my next point. I could direct you to a website where you can by files for <£50, the tool to do the work is relatively cheap. So that then gives you two distinct supplier routes - the guys that can write and amend files themselves and the guys that will meet you in a layby or come to your house and load a file that they have no knowledge of that they bought for not a lot of money.

For me I would always go to one of the major players. Look for some middle of the road gains that are realistic.

And finally a little about the DPF. The DPF is in place to 'catch' particulate (soot) in the exhaust gas. It will then, by measuring the pressure in and comparing with the pressure out, ascertain when it is becoming blocked and will carry out a regeneration process. This process can often go on unnoticed by the driver however the more alert of us may notice slightly rougher running for a short period during the regen. The regen is achieved by injecting more fuel to increase the exhaust gas temp sufficiently to burn off the collected soot.

If you end up with a cheapo map that is poorly written and simply throws a lot more fuel in you will create lots more smoke, more smoke is going to cause the DPF to block more frequently ............ and you can see where this is going. You will have DPF issues with a poor map.

Many people will try to convince you to remove the DPF, and in some instances this can be an appropriate route but for how I read your requirements I think it unnecessary at this stage.

 

[Stu]

An example I witnessed a couple of weekends ago where someone has taken it a step too far, too much fuel to try extract too much power.

 

[James]

Good post Stu - appreciated

There's lot of 'pub talk' in general on other forums. It seems that when it comes to cars lots of people all seem to know best.

One of the reasons I like this forum is that here is less of that and the advice is generally intelligent

James

 

[lewisnoble]

Very useful post (and photo!!) Stu. As far as I understand this pretty complicated situation, it does seem to be true that the amount of extra kit fitting on diesel engines nowadays (for emission requirements) may make then run less sweetly and less economically in real-life situations - many people comment that their older engines run better, even when the new ones are fully run in. But just putting a tuning chip in (which often works by making the engine think it is running cold, so over-fuelling) can lead to all sorts of problems, smoke, hot spots in the exhaust manifold etc etc. and should not be done. Removing the DPF on its own leads to over-revving of the turbo, unless all the parameters are reset for the individual engine. So a comprehensive remap (eg. by the firm in Lancashire mentioned above, who have local agents) is the way to go if you want to do this.

But then what happens if the engine needs unrelated repairs?? Does the whole thing have to be reset again?? I don't know.

 

[Stu]

Very useful post (and photo!!) Stu.

Thanks

As far as I understand this pretty complicated situation, it does seem to be true that the amount of extra kit fitting on diesel engines nowadays (for emission requirements) may make then run less sweetly and less economically in real-life situations - many people comment that their older engines run better, even when the new ones are fully run in.

I think some advances have been made and for example I think the newer CR engines are much better than the older PD ones they replaced. Likewise DPF technology is getting better, especially when combined with the CR engines. I'm not sure that early DPF (using urea agents) really enjoyed being coupled to PD engines.

But just putting a tuning chip in (which often works by making the engine think it is running cold, so over-fuelling) can lead to all sorts of problems, smoke, hot spots in the exhaust manifold etc etc. and should not be done.

These are affectionately known as a resistor in a box because quite simply that's all they are but sadly some people have paid quite large sums of money for them. They can be identified by any device that claims to be a tuning box and that only has one plug connection. This will almost certainly plug into the fuel temperature sensor on the engine and modify the signal read from that sensor by the ECU. The ECU reads fuel temperature in order to calculate injection quantity, by reading the temperature a calculation of specific density can be made allowing the volume to be calculated accordingly.[/quote]

Some tuning boxes can have two or three plug connections, these will modify fuel pressure, induction pressure etc.

But then what happens if the engine needs unrelated repairs?? Does the whole thing have to be reset again?? I don't know.

An ECU remap involves physically loading on modified software to the ECU so should not be affected.

 

[Bubble]

Ok

Thanks stu for taking the time as I really do appreciate it!
I hear what your saying with competence in remapping etc & I does make sense.. But in your honest opinion do you think from a 174 to 205 is pushing my engine parts? Will I benefit from this increase & also are risks associated worth it?

 

[Stu]

340/350 lb ft and 200/205hp seems to be about the average.

Revo is £360

Superchips Bluefin is £365

AMD is £500

Jabba is £295

All four are pretty well respected tuners. The AMD price is far too expensive for an engine as old as the 2.5/174 and I suspect if you chose them there would be an element of price matching.

Revo offer an additional switch so you can use it to enable/disable the performance software yourself as well as immobilise the vehicle.

Superchips have two options. A standard flash to the ECU with no switching or the Bluefin which allows you to load the file on the vehicle yourself, as well as immobilise the vehicle it's a mail order solution as well.

Jabbasport is a standard flash.

AMD is a standard flash.

From that list I would be torn between REVO and Bluefin.

Take a look at the graph here and you can see that equivalent peak torque is reached from around 1800rpm instead of 2200rpm and is much stronger right the way through the useable rev range, that's where you'll reap the benefits.

 

[Bubble]

Thanks for that

Revo sounds fair.. They also seem to have loads of depots for the work to be done

Many thanks again

 

[James]

340/350 lb ft and 200/205hp seems to be about the average.

Revo is £360

Superchips Bluefin is £365

AMD is £500

Jabba is £295

All four are pretty well respected tuners. The AMD price is far too expensive for an engine as old as the 2.5/174 and I suspect if you chose them there would be an element of price matching.

Revo offer an additional switch so you can use it to enable/disable the performance software yourself as well as immobilise the vehicle.

Superchips have two options. A standard flash to the ECU with no switching or the Bluefin which allows you to load the file on the vehicle yourself, as well as immobilise the vehicle it's a mail order solution as well.

Jabbasport is a standard flash.

AMD is a standard flash.

From that list I would be torn between REVO and Bluefin.

Take a look at the graph here and you can see that equivalent peak torque is reached from around 1800rpm instead of 2200rpm and is much stronger right the way through the useable rev range, that's where you'll reap the benefits.

Curious about the Beach and all 115bhp lol

Seriously, would be interested to know how it was set up. in theory it is already set up for economy.

James

 

[timhutch]

What you gonna do with all that extra power?

 

[timhutch]

It's a van, man.

 

[calikev]

It's a van, man.

:laugh2 :laugh2 classic :laugh2

 

[Stu]

Power is good

 

[sidepod]

All V interesting. I too am struggling (psychologically) with the difference between new and old(er) VW motors.

I spoke last week with one of the main players in this market. Depending on the age of the vehicle, some ECU's need to be removed from the vehicle in order to modify the map whilst others can be done via a port or Bluefin device. Older ECU's did, then they didn't and now the latest designs do. All part of VW trying to combat this industry - apparantly.
This may make a difference when servicing is required.

Personally speaking, I'm more than confident in there being sufficient redundancy in the mechanicals to cope with the extra load we're discussing here.

S.