REMAP

[beardie]

All engines are mass produced items with hundreds of component parts. Each part has its own variations in size and fit. VW will have tested many individual parts and completed engines. Their aim will be to reduce failures of parts and engines to a certain (very small level) that's consistent with acceptable performance. Some parts will fail (fact of life) in a standard configuration. If an engine is tuned the set of assumptions is shifted. It's likely over a large enough sample that extra power / torque will cause a higher failure rate.

Doesn't mean your engine will fail, but it's probably more likely to over an extended period. Perhaps by only a couple of percent. I don't think any one tuner will have a large enough sample in controlled conditions to know the impact of their changes.

If I was to tune an engine I would be inclined to change oil more often and otherwise try and look after it to counteract the effect of the additional load put on it.

 

[Stu]

I spoke last week with one of the main players in this market. Depending on the age of the vehicle, some ECU's need to be removed from the vehicle in order to modify the map whilst others can be done via a port or Bluefin device. Older ECU's did, then they didn't and now the latest designs do. All part of VW trying to combat this industry - apparently.

Generally most ECU's had security protection to prevent 'tampering' and previously the tuning companies had been able to find ways of defeating these so that they could flash software via the OBD port. The newer (Bosch EDC17 and MED17) ECU's have a 1024bit RSA encryption called Tuning Protection which has proved more troublesome.

The current process is to remove the ECU form the vehicle, open it up and put it into a boot mode which then allows the software to be modified on the bench. Generally once this has been done and the ECU refitted to the vehicle it can then be flashed via OBD in the usual manner which then allows for the use of tools such as Bluefin.

The PD174 would not have the type of ECU that would need to be removed before flashing.

 

[sidepod]

One other thing to bear in mind is that most of theses chip companies do offer a 7 day trial.
Try it. If you like it. Go for it. Can't really argue with an offer like that. :cool

S.

14 days untill first outing of 2013.

 

[sidepod]

Ok I need more intel on this.

We've established what the cheap option does for us, ie a restitor in a box to trick the temp sensor and add more fuel but, what does the pukka version (Superchips/REvo etc) do instead?

Many people have a 140hp variant in their vans. VW also produce a 180 variant so what is the difference between the two factory ECU's?

Would the simple fix just be to bolt on the VW ECU from the more powerful variant?

Regarding the robustness of these engines running higher outputs, we're not even close to the benchmark of 100bhp/litre which even the most humble euro box can manage. I remain confident in VW's German over-engineered product.

S.

 

[Stu]

There are lots of differences between the 140ps and the 180ps engines but the most obvious is that the 180 is Bi Turbo.

Simply 'bolting on' an ECU is not an option as the software would be very different for the 180ps not to mention that the ECU contains other functions such as storing the current mileage, VIN details and of course the Immobilisor link to the Dash Insert.

When a tuner modifies the software on the ECU, remapping, it is so called because he will remap the fueling and boost pressure values at various load points in the software to achieve a balance of good power without too much smoke.

Depending on the software it can depict these values in a different manner but for example -

 

[Californiaman]

100 bhp and no torque. Sometimes less is more, I would rather the engine produces more mid range torque than top end horsepower. It's all horses for courses!

 

[sidepod]

There is a single turbo variant of the 2.0L at 170 bhp I believe? So, in this instance, the ECU should do the trick.
I'll bet the part no.s are identical all but a couple of digits denoting a software variation?

S.

 

[Stu]

You would still need take it to VW to have it fitted as you need the Dash Insert paired with the ECU and to do this now requires an online connection with the VAS/ODIS diagnostic tool.


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[Bubble]

Right lads ....... :crazy
This has gone way over my head, however still interesting!! I'm still not sure lol

 

[Stu]

As sidepod says go get yourself some software installed and give it a go.

For my money I'd keep it simple, something like REVO or Bluefin.


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[Bubble]

Cheers I'll do thatm

 

[DavidS]

I took my July '13 180 to Superchips and we both wasted a good half day. Their software engineer, a very nice patient chap, tried all sorts of ways of breaking into the EDC17 ECU, and even the tech HQ in Milan was unable to come up with a solution. In the end they offered me a Steinbauer add-on unit that looks pretty impressive but is more that twice the price fitted! Which is a shame as I would like to have gone with them as I like the Bluefin device. Here is the link to Steinbauer:

http://www.steinbauer.cc/gb/products/mo ... __4kb/9bL/

Revo have developed a means of getting in so I took it to them. They did my other VW and the difference was amazing. With the Cali they added 30 bhp and it's a lot more nimble and driveable. The only downside of course is that if a factory software update is applied unwittingly by the dealer, it has to be re-loaded for about £100.

Revo did say that VW/Audi are getting a lot cleverer with preventing access to the ECUs of the newest models. They also seem to be the only ones who have cracked it. They were very thorough, knowledgeable and professional. Overall it took about 5 hours to complete the job.

 

[beardie]

Do you notice any fuel consumption difference?

 

[DavidS]

Not yet, as I haven't driven it very far! And the engine won't really give of its best until it's done few more miles. I've only got 3.5k on the clock so far, but fuel consumption was the main reason I had it done. On a fully loaded trip to Spain and back before I had it done the computer indicated 30.1 and I'm hoping to get 7-10% more at least. The torque improvement combined with light right foot makes me hopeful, and of course the motor has yet to loosen up quite a bit. I was on the autoroutes mainly, and at a steady 80 that didn't really help either! So there has to be room for considerable improvement!

 

[calikev]

So let me get this right you are hoping after the remap to get 33-34mpg instead of 30.1
And if it's recalled for software updates it's £100 to reload where are the savings :?:

 

[briwy]

Not yet, as I haven't driven it very far! And the engine won't really give of its best until it's done few more miles. I've only got 3.5k on the clock so far, but fuel consumption was the main reason I had it done. On a fully loaded trip to Spain and back before I had it done the computer indicated 30.1 and I'm hoping to get 7-10% more at least. The torque improvement combined with light right foot makes me hopeful, and of course the motor has yet to loosen up quite a bit. I was on the autoroutes mainly, and at a steady 80 that didn't really help either! So there has to be room for considerable improvement!

You will find that the fuel consumption (and performance) will increase dramatically around 15-20k miles. We've had six VAG diesels in the past few years and all have followed this pattern.
Personally I don't think it's worth looking at remaps until the engine is properly run in as you may find that once it's settled down it's doing what you want it to anyway. The other thing to consider is the invalidation of warranty.

 

[sidepod]

When my Caddy was new the fuel consumption was only in the low 40's. Not very good at all.
Now it has almost 20k on the clock it averages 52mpg.

I unloaded the superchips map via Bluefin (re installed the original factory settings) and checked the consumption. No difference what so ever between the two maps.

It seems odd that they couldn't break into the ECU. Did they remove it from the vehicle? I was advised that they would need the car for a day to remove the box and do some surgery on it.

S.

 

[DavidS]

Revo removed the box. Superchips removed the box. The benefits are there to be had, it's just down to whether you enjoy the increased driveability or take it easy. I'm told the very latest models' ECUs have a much higher degree of security, so your Caddy, Sidepod, may have been OK at that time. Superchips have obviously done Calis before, they quote the engine on their website and the engineer told me he had some great references. So I was surprised they couldn't do it.

Briwy, your experience echoes mine on VW's and Audis.

 

[sidepod]

The benefits are there to be had, it's just down to whether you enjoy the increased driveability or take it easy.

Exactly. With the new map installed it's just so much more responsive off the bottom. 5th and 6th gear overtaking is so much better too. The rest of the time, ie normal driving, you'd never know it was there.
In my case, the map is practically identical to another vehicle in the VW range running the same engine. In other words, it's not doing anything VW don't do already.

S.

 

[TH Performance]

I took my July '13 180 to Superchips and we both wasted a good half day. Their software engineer, a very nice patient chap, tried all sorts of ways of breaking into the EDC17 ECU, and even the tech HQ in Milan was unable to come up with a solution. In the end they offered me a Steinbauer add-on unit that looks pretty impressive but is more that twice the price fitted! Which is a shame as I would like to have gone with them as I like the Bluefin device. Here is the link to Steinbauer:

http://www.steinbauer.cc/gb/products/mo ... __4kb/9bL/

Revo have developed a means of getting in so I took it to them. They did my other VW and the difference was amazing. With the Cali they added 30 bhp and it's a lot more nimble and driveable. The only downside of course is that if a factory software update is applied unwittingly by the dealer, it has to be re-loaded for about £100.

Revo did say that VW/Audi are getting a lot cleverer with preventing access to the ECUs of the newest models. They also seem to be the only ones who have cracked it. They were very thorough, knowledgeable and professional. Overall it took about 5 hours to complete the job.

Not 100% true, Pendle Performance were tuning these from day 1, they also got into the newer 12 plate EDC17 ecu's before most others did. Only today we tuned a 180bi Turbo 4000 mile old four motion California. It took about 2 hours from start to finish. On another note, Pendle don't put a line of code into their tuned files which prevents anyone reading it like Revo do, if it goes wrong you have to hope that Revo have a record of the file somewhere, unlike the poor T5 owner last week who needs a new ECU because they are unable to decode it along with the original tuner going bust :cool

 

[JULIANLISMORE]

Re: talk in this thread about removal of DPF.

It may not generally be known that the Department of Transport has announced that as from 01 February 2014 MoT testing stations will be required to check for a diesel particulate filter in the inspection of the exhaust system as part of the MoT test.

The Department's press release, dated 04 December 2013 states: "The vehicle will automatically fail the MoT test if the filter had been fitted as standard but is found to be no longer present."

 

[TH Performance]

The inspection applies to a visual inspection only.

This is designed to stop bypass pipes etc.

If you have a DPF in place still (regardless of whether the insides is removed or not) then it will pass an MOT when the new batch of regulations come into force.

We have an MOT bay and four of the testers have all confirmed the very same thing.

Hope that clarifies the matter.

 

[James]

Re: talk in this thread about removal of DPF.

It may not generally be known that the Department of Transport has announced that as from 01 February 2014 MoT testing stations will be required to check for a diesel particulate filter in the inspection of the exhaust system as part of the MoT test.

The Department's press release, dated 04 December 2013 states: "The vehicle will automatically fail the MoT test if the filter had been fitted as standard but is found to be no longer present."

That's very interesting


James

 

[Stu]

I'm surprised you say superchips couldn't tune the 180. Did you go to Buckingham HQ or to the local agent?

As for needing a new ECU after a REVO tune, I find that a little odd. Why would you not just flash the corresponding stock file to the ECU before applying the Pendle flash?

Lots of old wives tales about REVO, many of which are unfounded.

 

[Stu]

The inspection applies to a visual inspection only.

This is designed to stop bypass pipes etc.

If you have a DPF in place still (regardless of whether the insides is removed or not) then it will pass an MOT when the new batch of regulations come into force.

We have an MOT bay and four of the testers have all confirmed the very same thing.

Hope that clarifies the matter.

You missed a bit -

Some firms offer services to remove the filter, claiming it will improve the economy. But it is an offence to drive a vehicle that has been modified this way, as it will no longer meet the emissions standards the car achieved when it was approved for sale in the UK.

So whilst checking for a removed filter is the obvious way to be 'caught' I would suggest you still face prosecution if you've tampered with it by removing the insides.

The vehicle would be contravening the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulation 61 A as it no longer meets emission standards applied to it when new.


https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...63018/diesel-particulate-filters-guidance.pdf