Residuals dropping

[Borris]

Just one observation. Out of interest, I regularly take a look at what's available for sale. The thing that has struck me recently is that whilst there are quite a few nearly new Calis for sale, especially by VW dealers, they nearly all have a very basic spec. As most people buying into the Cali life style will have a specific shopping list of options, the dealers might be finding these bog standard cooking Calis a little more difficult to shift, hence the keen prices. A standard no frills Cali is still a very desirable vehicle but I would imagine that most informed buyers will want more e.g Parking heater, window tints, seven seats etc etc. IMO a well specced Cali will always attract a healthy premium.
The residuals may well be dropping but taking this factor into account, I am yet to be convinced?

 

[Simon67]

Maybe the market has realised that a well looked after, late, t4 makes a hell of a lot of sense? Pretty bullet proof, drive well, can be fixed with a hammer and a socket set, won't depreciate and becoming a classic.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

[snowy55]

becoming a classic.

Usually means you need to buy some welding kit

 

[Simon67]

Usually means you need to buy some welding kit

Ha, fair point!

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[motacyclist]

I have been monitoring used Cali prices over the last few months and have noticed prices appear to be dropping. Various dealers have been reducing prices on some of their stock, I assume this is because there is quite a lot available. Also private classifieds Cali's seem to no longer be selling unless they are very competitively priced. I assume the change has occurred for various reasons, be it roof corrosion, T6 manual gearbox problems, Marco Polo etc. Also I suspect now the T6 is in full flow there is a lot more stock around.

Let's hope prices don't drop too far.

Aarghh! Another thing to wake up in a sweat worrying about

TBH I don't lose any sleep over the roof corrosion, it's only cosmetic; I don't have a manual T6, the van uses no oil and there isn't a single Marco Polo available on Autotrader yet. And I never thought it wasn't going to depreciate.

On the other hand, it is annoying that things slide down the gap between the dashboard and windscreen, and the table rattles sometimes .... etc

 

[2into1]

Someone trying to prove us wrong listing a 204 manual 2wd T6 with 22k miles for £65k.

 

[Meoncoast]

and with x2 2012 180's for sale on the forum at over 41k at the moment people just make up a price or I must be missing something. our T5 dsg (2wd) was £43k in 2012 has the t5 already got classic status.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Just one observation. Out of interest, I regularly take a look at what's available for sale. The thing that has struck me recently is that whilst there are quite a few nearly new Calis for sale, especially by VW dealers, they nearly all have a very basic spec. As most people buying into the Cali life style will have a specific shopping list of options, the dealers might be finding these bog standard cooking Calis a little more difficult to shift, hence the keen prices. A standard no frills Cali is still a very desirable vehicle but I would imagine that most informed buyers will want more e.g Parking heater, window tints, seven seats etc etc. IMO a well specced Cali will always attract a healthy premium.
The residuals may well be dropping but taking this factor into account, I am yet to be convinced?

Borris, i think that is true.
Almost all secondhand oceans through the network are fairly basic spec and it's even worst if you want a Beach.
If your in the market for a £50k-£60k vehicle. Adding £7k to the price for must have options is something you just get on with. No point missing a tick off an options box for something that really is essential and makes the vehicle truly brilliant.

I'm guessing as well. Dealers had to spec fairly basic T6 vehicles to ensure a speedy delivery to stock. New/revised platforms always have a slow production start for the first 12 months

 

[pjm-84]

Agree. I think the extras on ours is nudging 8k.

That's said my rough estimate on my vehicle's value is £43k for an high spec 2015 180dsg . This equate to £5k a year depreciation which is the saving I've made on our summer holidays (now use the Cali). So cost neutral. Happy days.

(We had a 6 series that lost 33.5k in 3years ---- ouch)

 

[Mr & Mrs B]

I think human nature means that people are more likely to complain about something than offer praise! Our Cali is still on order but we're not buying it with a view to selling quickly so a drop in price isn't something that's of concern to us. It's our intention to use Cali for as long as we can or until we're too old and decrepit to enjoy her!

 

[Velma's Dad]

Contrarily, I think quite a lot of used Cali shoppers out there will actually be quite happy with a 'basic spec' van.

We forumistas tend to salivate over the options list but there'll be a lot of people out in the 'real world' for whom Cali ownership is about what they can do with a practical well-designed campervan - ie get out and enjoy the countryside - not about blingy alloys or adaptive cruise or heated windscreens, or built in satnav (I have Mrs VD for that although TBH a robotic Jeremy Clarkson's voice would be an improvement).

And I suspect it's as true with a Cali as with all vehicles... when reselling, your £7k tick-fest on the options list will make your vehicle quickest to sell (if that's possible with any used Cali, whose residence on the for sale list is slightly shorter than the tenure of a Trump cabinet member) but won't add much to the sale price.

Just sayin...

 

[RedCali]

As most people buying into the Cali life style will have a specific shopping list of options, the dealers might be finding these bog standard cooking Calis a little more difficult to shift, hence the keen prices. A standard no frills Cali is still a very desirable vehicle but I would imagine that most informed buyers will want more e.g Parking heater, window tints, seven seats etc etc.

I fear this sounds very patronising!
A 'specific list of shopping options' in our case meant a deliberately pared down spec as neither me or Mr RC have any interest whatsoever in extras or how our Cali looks to other people - bling and lots of 'stuff' is most definitely not our thing.
Not all 'informed buyers' want more....And believe it or not some deliberately choose red!

 

[soulstyledevon]

Agree. I think the extras on ours is nudging 8k.

That's said my rough estimate on my vehicle's value is £43k for an high spec 2015 180dsg . This equate to £5k a year depreciation which is the saving I've made on our summer holidays (now use the Cali). So cost neutral. Happy days.

(We had a 6 series that lost 33.5k in 3years ---- ouch)

Yep.
I always say a vehicle is worth 50% of whatever you paid for it after 3 years of ownership. This would be considered a good depreciation value.
The Cali has amazingly strong residuals in comparison to most other vehicles.

As for all the horror stories. I've seen numerous threads on this forum offering nothing but praise for the vehicle. I myself have started good and bad threads about ownership. But overall, extremely happy with my purchase.
Some people will find, what they want to read...

 

[B J G]

From my pre-ownership investigations the residual values of Californias are very different to car ones. Cars are at best 50% in 3 years with 70+% not being that uncommon.
£1 per mile isn't that rare a figure for higher spec cars. £0.20 would seem to be inline with the Cali examples I've seen, or lower.

Extras count for nothing when trading in, only makes life easier for the dealer to sell.
From that I'll stick my head up and say that a Cali with £10k's worth of extras isn't 'worth' any more than a similar basic model. Easier & quicker to sell yes.

Pretty sure that pgm-84 found that with the 6 series.

If residuals are the main factor for buying a campervan then an old Bay Window VW would be the best option.

 

[pjm-84]

Found it with numerous cars! The only vehicle to buck the trend was our Defender. Loss over 3years = £400!

 

[B J G]

Found it with numerous cars! The only vehicle to buck the trend was our Defender. Loss over 3years = £400!

Second that. I lost £600 in 6.5 years on my old Defender.

 

[Borris]

From my pre-ownership investigations the residual values of Californias are very different to car ones. Cars are at best 50% in 3 years with 70+% not being that uncommon.
£1 per mile isn't that rare a figure for higher spec cars. £0.20 would seem to be inline with the Cali examples I've seen, or lower.

Extras count for nothing when trading in, only makes life easier for the dealer to sell.
From that I'll stick my head up and say that a Cali with £10k's worth of extras isn't 'worth' any more than a similar basic model. Easier & quicker to sell yes.

Pretty sure that pgm-84 found that with the 6 series.

If residuals are the main factor for buying a campervan then an old Bay Window VW would be the best option.

But how many people trade in a Cali?

 

[Fast Freddie]

From my pre-ownership investigations the residual values of Californias are very different to car ones. Cars are at best 50% in 3 years with 70+% not being that uncommon.
£1 per mile isn't that rare a figure for higher spec cars. £0.20 would seem to be inline with the Cali examples I've seen, or lower.

Extras count for nothing when trading in, only makes life easier for the dealer to sell.
From that I'll stick my head up and say that a Cali with £10k's worth of extras isn't 'worth' any more than a similar basic model. Easier & quicker to sell yes.

Pretty sure that pgm-84 found that with the 6 series.

If residuals are the main factor for buying a campervan then an old Bay Window VW would be the best option.

Or a Splittie! I wish I'd bought a few 20 years ago when you could pick them up very cheaply!

 

[GrannyJen]

Well, I had a great night's sleep in Albert. As always the vehicle performed brilliantly and my love affair continues as strongly as ever. Quite a brilliant nights sleep totally undisturbed by worries of how much I can sell Albert for. I bought the vehicle to use and enjoy not to feature in some kind of elaborate accounting exercise. I am sure that when I come to replace Albert, and at this stage it will be with another Cali, the residual will still be multiple percentage points higher than the vehicle I traded in for Albert.

 

[Borris]

I fear this sounds very patronising!
A 'specific list of shopping options' in our case meant a deliberately pared down spec as neither me or Mr RC have any interest whatsoever in extras or how our Cali looks to other people - bling and lots of 'stuff' is most definitely not our thing.
Not all 'informed buyers' want more....And believe it or not some deliberately choose red!

I too would be equally as happy with a basic, red, T5 SE manual 140 but not if it didn't have an auxillary parking heater or enough seats! Lets face it, with the basic no options, SE you are not left wanting for much. Personally though, I would prefer plain candy white instead.
My "very patronising" comments concerned the current and recently advertised VW commercial dealership's nearly new Cali stock, most of which appear to be the Beach model. As the numerous past posts on this forum testify, it is almost impossible to find a nearly new Beach with an auxilliary parking heater on the VW Commercial web site. Some owners are also looking for extra seats to add to a basic spec Beach that they have either located or purchased. It is these basis optional items to which I mainly refer in the "specific list of shopping options" and not so much the add on blingy bits and bobs. They don't make that much difference to the practicality of the vehicle whereas a heater will enable you to use your van all year round. Also having enough seats for the number of bums that you might have to transport is essential. These posts indicate that either the new owners have been unable to locate a second hand Cali with their desired spec and are therefore trying to adapt their vehicle to the purpose that they intent to put it to. On the other hand it could be that they weren't sufficiently informed enough before buying to know that certain items such as the awning, parking heater and extra seats etc are best specified and can be cheaper, if included on a factory order. There is some evidence from these posts to suggest that this is also true. I am not suggesting that there aren't any buyers who would be happy with a bog standard Beach and there's nothing wrong with those vehicles either but I would imagine that those buyers are very much in the minority.

It has already been mentioned that dealers may have these basic spec vehicles because they can get them quickly from the factory instead of having a long wait for better optioned examples. My point was merely, that the dealers may now be finding these basic specced vehicles more difficult to sell and that may be why their prices appear to be dropping. In any event I don't see how my comments can be construed as being "very patronising".

 

[Velma's Dad]

My point was merely, that the dealers may now be finding these basic specced vehicles more difficult to sell and that may be why their prices appear to be dropping. In any event I don't see how my comments can be construed as being "very patronising".

Borris, FWIW it certainly wasn't construed by me as even a little bit patronising.

I hadn't realised you were talking about those 'basic spec' vans at the dealerships being Beaches. Yes the lack of a heater or the 'right' number of seats would I'm sure constrain the demand for those.

I'm betting a lot of Beach buyers want them as a multi-role campervan/school run bus, and for that the appropriate number of seats is of course crucial (we spent about a decade in the MPV twilight zone - a Spacewagon, a Sintra and a Galaxy - but stupidly never thought of a campervan then!).

Less confidently, I wonder whether purchases of Beaches (new or used) might be skewed towards second-time Cali owners, ie people who've had an SE/Ocean but found they've not really used the kitchen module. But I don't want to re-start the Beach vs. Ocean 30 Years Forum War...

 

[ArunAlec]

Or a Splittie! I wish I'd bought a few 20 years ago when you could pick them up very cheaply!

Bought my split for £750! Sold it for £6500, probably worth £65k now!

 

[Borris]

Borris, FWIW it certainly wasn't construed by me as even a little bit patronising.

I hadn't realised you were talking about those 'basic spec' vans at the dealerships being Beaches. Yes the lack of a heater or the 'right' number of seats would I'm sure constrain the demand for those.

I'm betting a lot of Beach buyers want them as a multi-role campervan/school run bus, and for that the appropriate number of seats is of course crucial (we spent about a decade in the MPV twilight zone - a Spacewagon, a Sintra and a Galaxy - but stupidly never thought of a campervan then!).

Less confidently, I wonder whether purchases of Beaches (new or used) might be skewed towards second-time Cali owners, ie people who've had an SE/Ocean but found they've not really used the kitchen module. But I don't want to re-start the Beach vs. Ocean 30 Years Forum War...

Hello VD,
Your comments are very interesting as Mrs B and I have had the same conversation recently about the Beach verses the SE/Ocean.

You may well be aware that we have a T5 SE and a T6 Beach. I have to confess that the water tanks on the SE have never been used and we never intend to use them either. Therefore we have not used the sink or tap either. We do use the cooker and the fridge regularly but do all of our messy cooking outside. We have never used the safe and find the wardrobe to be an awkward space so we use it to throw an assortment of stuff into, mainly bedding.

This vehicle was purchased with money which my late mother left me and was intended as a pure self indulgence for Mrs B and I to use for regular get aways. We both felt that it was a good way to use her money as she would have thoroughly approved of us having an ever ready escape capsule. We never intended buying another Cali as well.

However the Beach was purchased last year after a lot of research, as a replacement to our then aged family car. It has to serve as a school bus, people carrier, van, mobile beach hut, picnic van and general purpose vehicle etc etc for our family but mainly our grandchildren who we look after on a regular basis.
Since we have had these vehicles they have both been absolutely briliant at what they do i.e SE - pure camper van escape capsule and Beach - general purpose do anything day to day run about.
.
However having found ourselves with two Calis and having discovered just how good the Beach is, we have naturally briefly discussed selling the SE and just running the Beach which seems to do everything so well. Since we could purchase a self contained 12/240v/gas fridge and use our existing outside gas cooker the only minor issue would be storage. Having slept downstairs in both I can report that they are both very comfortable. However the bigger bed in the Beach is a pure luxury. Also when you turn the front passenger seat round you don't have the kitchen unit stuck in the way and the interior seems huge in comparison to the SE. It also has windows every where so has much better vision all round. The manual roof is also a bonus in my opinion as well.

So far we haven't seriously considered selling the SE as it seems wrong to part with something that my mother indirectly bought for us. Also it is so convenient to just jump into it and drive off somewhere without having to strip out seats and reconfigure the Beach interior before going anywhere.

However there will come a time when I am sure we will decide to just run the Beach. So I am sure that you are correct about some SE/Ocean owners going over to Beach ownership.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Hello VD,
Your comments are very interesting as Mrs B and I have had the same conversation recently about the Beach verses the SE/Ocean.

You may well be aware that we have a T5 SE and a T6 Beach. I have to confess that the water tanks on the SE have never been used and we never intend to use them either. Therefore we have not used the sink or tap either. We do use the cooker and the fridge regularly but do all of our messy cooking outside. We have never used the safe and find the wardrobe to be an awkward space so we use it to throw an assortment of stuff into, mainly bedding.

This vehicle was purchased with money which my late mother left me and was intended as a pure self indulgence for Mrs B and I to use for regular get aways. We both felt that it was a good way to use her money as she would have thoroughly approved of us having an ever ready escape capsule. We never intended buying another Cali as well.

However the Beach was purchased last year after a lot of research, as a replacement to our then aged family car. It has to serve as a school bus, people carrier, van, mobile beach hut, picnic van and general purpose vehicle etc etc for our family but mainly our grandchildren who we look after on a regular basis.
Since we have had these vehicles they have both been absolutelty briliant at what they do i.e SE - pure camper van escape capsule and Beach - general purpose do anything day to day run about
.
However having found ourselves with two Calis and having discovered just how good the Beach is, we have naturally briefly discussed selling the SE and just running the Beach which seems to do everything so well. Since we could purchase a self contained 12/240v/gas fridge and use our existing outside gas cooker the only minor issue would be storage. Having slept downstairs in both I can report that they are both very comfortable. However the bigger bed in the Beach is a pure luxury. Also when you turn the front seat round you don't have the kitchen unit stuck in the way and the interior seems huge in comparison to the SE. It also has windows every where so has much better vision all round. The manual roof is also a bonus in my opinion as well.

So far we haven't seriously considered selling the SE as it seems wrong to part with something that my mother indirectly bought for us. Also it is so convenient to just jump into it and drive off somewhere without having to strip out seats and reconfigure the Beach interior before going anywhere.

However there will come a time when I am sure we will just decide to run the Beach. So I am sure that you are correct about some SE/Ocean owners going over to Beach ownership.

You are not alone.
I've owned a lot of camper vans over the years. Probably wouldn't have looked twice at the California had it not been for the release of the Beach.

It ticked all the boxes for us, so we decided to ditch our converted van with kitchen sink etc etc and move into a Beach.

Got to say though, it absolutely needs to be specced with certain options, such as Aux Heater, Climate Control/AirCon and awning. Otherwise, it's not much more than a big estate car with a pop up roof.
It's options like this I wouldn't hesitate in ordering. As for things like wheels and pretty spoilers. Agree not needed, but each to their own.

 

[B J G]

As the entry level Beach will be the only California to get under the April VED hike it could well prove to have the lowest depreciation figure in the range for a few years.
Remember it's the list price not the purchase price when new that applies for the VED rate.

Thanks Borris for a very clear picture of the practicalities of both types.