Residuals dropping

[soulstyledevon]

Are options taken into account with regards to the VED hike...?
Or is it calculated on manufacturers base vehicle?

 

[andyinluton]

Having looked for a beach as a cost effective replacement for the wife car, & monitoring adverts for a few months, from what I've seen "low spec" SEs & beach wise any thing with a decent spec sells quickly - parking heater essential, along with the now standard electric hook up, factory awning, heated seats, parking sensors, tinted windows & towbar make it fly off the forecourt at a decent price. Anything without the heater hangs around. Hence VW site is full of lower spec beaches.

Se/Ocean wise theres a bit more variance - basic spec + awning+ parking sensors is all 99% of people actually need anything else is just nice to have. Price wise reasonable mileage 3 year old vans seem to be going for much the same price that careful buyers were paying for them when they were new & its the increase in new prices thats holding up the nearly new second hand values.

I quick look on the configurator puts a closest like for like like replacement for mine (a 140 manual) at £15k more than I paid - If I sold it a buyer could take the view that they are saving 15K over the price of a new one.
The decision would be harder for a buyer if I was selling a fully loaded 180 DSG the price would be getting a lot closer to the cost of new basic model.

 

[Borris]

You are not alone.
I've owned a lot of camper vans over the years. Probably wouldn't have looked twice at the California had it not been for the release of the Beach.

It ticked all the boxes for us, so we decided to ditch our converted van with kitchen sink etc etc and move into a Beach.

Got to say though, it absolutely needs to be specced with certain options, such as Aux Heater, Climate Control/AirCon and awning. Otherwise, it's not much more than a big estate car with a pop up roof.
It's options like this I wouldn't hesitate in ordering. As for things like wheels and pretty spoilers. Agree not needed, but each to their own.

We ended up with our Beach after we visited SMG Tonbridge to see if they had any nearly new Caravelles. I have nothing against buying new but I prefer to buy ex demo or pre registered when ever possible so that the dealer shares some of the initial depreciation. I'm just a bit of a tight wad really. It was just by sheer chance that they had our Beach, unregistered and on the forecourt, waiting to be used as their demo for the next three months.

Having discovered that it had the rarely specced aux parking heater, removable tow bar, 3 zone climatronic aircon, tinted windows, heated screen, fogs, mfsr, top end satnav/radio, seven seats including intagrated child seats and a whole lot else besides it was just a question of doing a deal. All thoughts of a Caravelle disappeared especially when we discovered that there wasn't much difference in the price. The Beach is so much more practical and versatile than a Caravelle. It should also hold it's value better as well.

As we had already purchased the SE six months before (also first seen unregistered and bought before they had used it as their demo), Laine Watts at SMG gave us an amazing +15% off list price. He is a lovely man to deal with and unusually for a VW Commercial sales person, knows the California inside out. I wouldn't have gone anywhere near a basic spec Beach. These things are just too expensive to end up with something that doesn't tick all of your boxes.

Just one thing though. SMG hadn't ordered the factory fitted awning. After I tried to source one second hand without success I asked them to order and fit a factory Thule awning. It cost me an eye watering £960. It's about half that price if it's part of the original factory order. Still without the awning it just isn't a Cali.

 

[B J G]

Are options taken into account with regards to the VED hike...?
Or is it calculated on manufacturers base vehicle?

Its LIST price including any options at LIST price. You only have a few hundred pounds worth of options available before hitting the £40,000 crossover.
You may get 10% discount from a Dealer but it wouldn't be taken into account for VED, sadly.

Pretty sure VW will have to do some marketing exercise to accommodate this. It applies to vans as well. everything under 3,500 kgs gross weight.

Surprised no uproar from Commercial market

 

[WelshGas]

Its LIST price including any options at LIST price. You only have a few hundred pounds worth of options available before hitting the £40,000 crossover.
You may get 10% discount from a Dealer but it wouldn't be taken into account for VED, sadly.

Pretty sure VW will have to do some marketing exercise to accommodate this. It applies to vans as well. everything under 3,500 kgs gross weight.

Surprised no uproar from Commercial market

Over on the T5 Forum they state that the New VED does not apply to N1 Commercial vehicles. Don't know how true that is, but I have not found anything to contradict it.

 

[WelshGas]

Over on the T5 Forum they state that the New VED does not apply to N1 Commercial vehicles. Don't know how true that is, but I have not found anything to contradict it.

So, as with the later Land Rover Defender estates, they could just make the California a Diesel Van, N1, Body Type Motor Caravan so you get the cheaper VED and Car road speed limits.

My 2010 Defender was M1, VED £400+/year, 2012 Defender, same spec, N1, VED £200+/year.

 

[thehorse]

Sounds interesting.

Could that be done by the dealer when he registers it, or is that something VW would need to change on the classification?

 

[WelshGas]

Sounds interesting.

Could that be done by the dealer when he registers it, or is that something VW would need to change on the classification?

I think it would have to be VW making the decision and then the Dealers remembering it.
With Land Rover, when they changed the classification of the Defender Estate , SWB sitting 4 and LWB sitting 5/7, they saw a drop in sales due to the significant increase in VED and so they swapped back. Unfortunately once registered as M1 you cannot change back.

The majority of Conversions are based on N1 vehicles and the Converter changes the body type from Van to Motor Caravan as long as it meets DVLA's definition of a Motor Caravan. Then they abide by Car rather than Commercial speed limits.

 

[hirsty]

Interesting - I think a lot of assumptions being made on behalf of others, based on personal viewpoints (in my opinion! ...)

I wouldn't be so bold as to put a number on it, but 'many people' do not want to become part-time volunteer Camper Market Analysts, have any idea at all as to the effect of VED changes, or will be remotely put off California ownership by potential roof corrosion (I've not read the T6 thread or popped my own top since).

As for specs, if I've learned anything from these forums it's the vast range of preferences & use-cases - there is no 'best', it's all horses for courses. I'm personally delighted with my Acapulco Blue Beach as above & hadn't the least interest in "removable tow bar, 3 zone climatronic aircon, tinted windows, heated screen, fogs, mfsr, top end satnav/radio, seven seats including intagrated child seats [or] a whole lot else besides".

I did however want DSG and sprang extra for a retrofit aux heater & wish the dipped headlamps were a little brighter... As for how much it's worth now or whether anyone else wants to buy one? - nope, not a care, each to their own ...

 

[WelshGas]

Interesting - I think a lot of assumptions being made on behalf of others, based on personal viewpoints (in my opinion! ...)

I wouldn't be so bold as to put a number on it, but 'many people' do not want to become part-time volunteer Camper Market Analysts, have any idea at all as to the effect of VED changes, or will be remotely put off California ownership by potential roof corrosion (I've not read the T6 thread or popped my own top since).

As for specs, if I've learned anything from these forums it's the vast range of preferences & use-cases - there is no 'best', it's all horses for courses. I'm personally delighted with my Acapulco Blue Beach as above & hadn't the least interest in "removable tow bar, 3 zone climatronic aircon, tinted windows, heated screen, fogs, mfsr, top end satnav/radio, seven seats including intagrated child seats [or] a whole lot else besides".

I did however want DSG and sprang extra for a retrofit aux heater & wish the dipped headlamps were a little brighter ... As for how much it's worth now or whether anyone else wants to buy one? - nope, each to their own ...

Have you tried fitting Nightbreaker or Phillips 130 headlight bulbs. They make a difference.

 

[B J G]

Over on the T5 Forum they state that the New VED does not apply to N1 Commercial vehicles. Don't know how true that is, but I have not found anything to contradict it.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...11/ved-reform-briefing-for-motor-industry.pdf

Seating capability seems to be the relevant decider. Or Motorhomes
The above Government info gives details.

Further clarification on vehicle Categories found>
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/vehicletype/definition-of-vehicle-categories.asp

I can't see any way out for the Cali' range.

 

[WelshGas]

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...11/ved-reform-briefing-for-motor-industry.pdf

Seating capability seems to be the relevant decider. Or Motorhomes
The above Government info gives details.

Further clarification on vehicle Categories found>
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/vehicletype/definition-of-vehicle-categories.asp

I can't see any way out for the Cali' range.

You are probably correct unless:-

 

[andyinluton]

Because the cali is a factory build they fall under the new scheme as VW have the CO2 as part of the type approval, Bilbos Danbury and other converters are multi stage & will be PLG - However don't forget that the tax is only worse for the first 6 years and even then in the overall cost of the van we are talking an addition of 1/2% and that 1/2% is spread over 6 years - second hand buyers in 6 years time will be looking for vans on the new schema as they will be cheaper to tax.

 

[2into1]

This sort of thread seems to stir many into feeling the need to strongly justify their choices and decisions, as if they are being attacked.
There is no need. We are all Cali fans here. It's just a chat about how the market looks, how it might compare to previous years and what could be behind any changes.

 

[Borris]

Interesting - I think a lot of assumptions being made on behalf of others, based on personal viewpoints (in my opinion! ...)

I wouldn't be so bold as to put a number on it, but 'many people' do not want to become part-time volunteer Camper Market Analysts, have any idea at all as to the effect of VED changes, or will be remotely put off California ownership by potential roof corrosion (I've not read the T6 thread or popped my own top since).

As for specs, if I've learned anything from these forums it's the vast range of preferences & use-cases - there is no 'best', it's all horses for courses. I'm personally delighted with my Acapulco Blue Beach as above & hadn't the least interest in "removable tow bar, 3 zone climatronic aircon, tinted windows, heated screen, fogs, mfsr, top end satnav/radio, seven seats including intagrated child seats [or] a whole lot else besides".

I did however want DSG and sprang extra for a retrofit aux heater & wish the dipped headlamps were a little brighter... As for how much it's worth now or whether anyone else wants to buy one? - nope, not a care, each to their own ...

You make some interesting points. Points that would carry equal weight without the sarcasm.

 

[Digger]

Because the cali is a factory build they fall under the new scheme as VW have the CO2 as part of the type approval, Bilbos Danbury and other converters are multi stage & will be PLG - However don't forget that the tax is only worse for the first 6 years and even then in the overall cost of the van we are talking an addition of 1/2% and that 1/2% is spread over 6 years - second hand buyers in 6 years time will be looking for vans on the new schema as they will be cheaper to tax.

The only certainty is that some time in the near future the government will change the rules and raise taxation based on pollution output. Don't rely on the new rates as they will be changed. The only certainty - Death and taxes

 

[Annik]

Several more price reductions both on here and at VW dealers over the last few days, this is normally unheard of this time of year in the run up to the season.

 

[B J G]

Because the cali is a factory build they fall under the new scheme as VW have the CO2 as part of the type approval, Bilbos Danbury and other converters are multi stage & will be PLG - However don't forget that the tax is only worse for the first 6 years and even then in the overall cost of the van we are talking an addition of 1/2% and that 1/2% is spread over 6 years - second hand buyers in 6 years time will be looking for vans on the new schema as they will be cheaper to tax.

The problem of VED rates is that it keep changing so none of has any clue as to what expect in 6 years time.

Certainly the Political Propoganda against Diesels is building in order to make tax hits acceptable. As was the case with 'Chelsea Tractors' a few years ago.
No mention of improved traffic flows to cut emissions.

The new VED system was brought in as too many people bought low emission cars cutting the VED Revenue.

Best get my bike (pedal variety) ready for an MOT pre VED introduction.

 

[CDinFrance]

Just read an interesting French car magazine article entitled "Diesel - should you sell before it is too late..."

The French market has started swinging from 70% diesel cars (as heavily promoted by the government) - to much less. Depends on the model, but sales of new Peugeot 308 hatchbacks are now 70% petrol, while larger vans are still 60-70% diesel. They stated the expectation of higher depreciation and possible restrictions on diesel use in even smaller cities as major factors, and recommended city dwellers to consider petrol, and rural people to keep their diesel cars. Short-term stats also show around a 15% increase in the three-year depreciation rates for diesel cars between 2012 and 2016.

Of course the campervan market is different, and for most models (including MBMP) petrol is not an option.

Just making this point as some city dwelling Cali owners that use the van as an every day vehicle, and are also hedging on residuals might want to think about it.

 

[hirsty]

Diesel has had it, but so has internal combustion generally - the only question remains the timeline. Something new will come along & we'll all get our leg lifted for whatever the new one costs, while simultaneously losing a bundle on residuals - as above, there are only two certainties.

Get out & enjoy while you still can.

Today: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/mar/04/diesel-environment-ban-tax-duty-emissions-values

 

[Bearreds]

Just one observation. Out of interest, I regularly take a look at what's available for sale. The thing that has struck me recently is that whilst there are quite a few nearly new Calis for sale, especially by VW dealers, they nearly all have a very basic spec. As most people buying into the Cali life style will have a specific shopping list of options, the dealers might be finding these bog standard cooking Calis a little more difficult to shift, hence the keen prices. A standard no frills Cali is still a very desirable vehicle but I would imagine that most informed buyers will want more e.g Parking heater, window tints, seven seats etc etc. IMO a well specced Cali will always attract a healthy premium.
The residuals may well be dropping but taking this factor into account, I am yet to be convinced?

You are spot on !
The for sale calis I have looked at at the dealers have very basic spec , to note first is multi function steering wheel ! None of them seem to have one, In my book to spend that sort of money on a Cali must have one along with sat Nav and cruise control . They shouldnt be an extra ! Should be standard!