Is your California selling?

[Azteccamper]

We bought our 2012 Cali SE 140 8 yrs ago for £33k off a guy on this forum. Nearly all our savings plus my BMW 520 Touring to fund it. We knew we would keep it for a good few years but expected usual Cali depreciation (still better than a car). So when I see similar aged vehicles ranging from £30k - £38k I just laugh. But then you see a “Joe Bloggs Camperlife“ conversion going for £25k+ and you realise the world has gone mad. When it comes to finance and the value of things the UK is on its arse. Crazy.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

We bought our 2012 Cali SE 140 8 yrs ago for £33k off a guy on this forum. Nearly all our savings plus my BMW 520 Touring to fund it. We knew we would keep it for a good few years but expected usual Cali depreciation (still better than a car). So when I see similar aged vehicles ranging from £30k - £38k I just laugh. But then you see a “Joe Bloggs Camperlife“ conversion going for £25k+ and you realise the world has gone mad. When it comes to finance and the value of things the UK is on its arse. Crazy.

Sold our 2012 140 beach for £31.5k 2 months ago. So you would easily get your money back!

…but of course all relative, as depends what you purchase next.

 

[m10chkcalifornia]

We bought our 2012 Cali SE 140 8 yrs ago for £33k off a guy on this forum. Nearly all our savings plus my BMW 520 Touring to fund it. We knew we would keep it for a good few years but expected usual Cali depreciation (still better than a car). So when I see similar aged vehicles ranging from £30k - £38k I just laugh. But then you see a “Joe Bloggs Camperlife“ conversion going for £25k+ and you realise the world has gone mad. When it comes to finance and the value of things the UK is on its arse. Crazy.

Prices of many things are still settling in response to all the disruptions of Covid. In 2022 I sold a car bought 3 years earlier and put 30k miles on for more than I had bought it for. Crazy. Car prices are still out of whack and I guess its the same or more so for campers.

 

[2into1]

Mine is currently up for sale. Very quiet to start with but enquiries are now coming in at expected levels now the warmth / sun seem to be appearing.
Mine is older and LHD so not in the mass market that may be impacting the later ones.

 

[Elmo3]

Mine is currently up for sale. Very quiet to start with but enquiries are now coming in at expected levels now the warmth / sun seem to be appearing.
Mine is older and LHD so not in the mass market that may be impacting the later ones.

Sounds similar to my old one (2009 LHD Beach) which I sold before Christmas. Had plenty of interest and sold quickly via Autotrader, but priced it well to move before the new one arrived in March.

 

[turnitdown]

I'll give a perspective as a would-be buyer, not a would-be seller.

2nd hand vans on this site often strike me as ambitiously priced, to put it diplomatically. E.g. If I can buy a new Ocean, from a dealer, with a bunch of extras for just under £70k (which I currently can), would I really want a 2 year old Ocean with fewer extras, from a private seller, for £64k? I just don't see the appeal of that and wonder who does. Without calling out specific ads, prices also do not seem competitive relative to used pricing from reputable dealers, which I think most people would prefer (ease of financing, someone to go to if problems arise, you can order online and then book your train and drive the van home with everything taken care of, or even have the van delivered, etc.).

The thing is, I am not sure to what degree asking prices from private sellers are set with a bit of negotiation room in mind. If a person with a 2 year old Ocean would accept, say, 61k or 62k, then maybe I'm interested. But I'm not going to drive around the country looking at vehicles by private sellers to find out, when I can click a couple of buttons and buy a nicely specced, new Ocean for <£70k, or a 2023 Ocean from a dealer for 63k (a couple on auto trader for that). The exception would be if there were something distinct about it that I liked, e.g., a colour (Starlight Blue please!).

That all said, I know how annoying it can be as a private seller to list a vehicle at the actual price you want, indicating 'firm', because people will still show up and lowball you. A few years ago I sold a Honda Jazz. I was extremely busy with work and with a newborn baby so I listed it on auto trader for 5% less than the next cheapest same year/same spec Honda Jazz in the entire UK, and explained in the ad how I set the price and why. I still had endless inquiries from people offering me 25% less.

 

[Corradobrit]

I'll give a perspective as a would-be buyer, not a would-be seller.

2nd hand vans on this site often strike me as ambitiously priced, to put it diplomatically. E.g. If I can buy a new Ocean, from a dealer, with a bunch of extras for just under £70k (which I currently can), would I really want a 2 year old Ocean with fewer extras, from a private seller, for £64k? I just don't see the appeal of that and wonder who does. Without calling out specific ads, prices also do not seem competitive relative to used pricing from reputable dealers, which I think most people would prefer (ease of financing, someone to go to if problems arise, you can order online and then book your train and drive the van home with everything taken care of, or even have the van delivered, etc.).

The thing is, I am not sure to what degree asking prices from private sellers are set with a bit of negotiation room in mind. If a person with a 2 year old Ocean would accept, say, 61k or 62k, then maybe I'm interested. But I'm not going to drive around the country looking at vehicles by private sellers to find out, when I can click a couple of buttons and buy a nicely specced, new Ocean for <£70k, or a 2023 Ocean from a dealer for 63k (a couple on auto trader for that). The exception would be if there were something distinct about it that I liked, e.g., a colour (Starlight Blue please!).

That all said, I know how annoying it can be as a private seller to list a vehicle at the actual price you want, indicating 'firm', because people will still show up and lowball you. A few years ago I sold a Honda Jazz. I was extremely busy with work and with a newborn baby so I listed it on auto trader for 5% less than the next cheapest same year/same spec Honda Jazz in the entire UK, and explained in the ad how I set the price and why. I still had endless inquiries from people offering me 25% less.

Everyone wants a deal. Expect less of a deal on a rarer model with eg 4Mo. Certainly seems like a buyers market although things might change a bit when the details of the MV Cali emerge tomorrow.

 

[Barry Chuckle]

In fairness to some of the ads on this site, they've probably been advertised for some months. Having monitored the value of my 2023 Cali which I recently sold, I'd say the depreciation in the past 3 - 6 months has been more marked than anytime over the past 2 or 3 years. Although not definitive the Motorway estimated sale price of my Cali dropped by 10% between Jan and April of this year.

 

[m10chkcalifornia]

In fairness to some of the ads on this site, they've probably been advertised for some months. Having monitored the value of my 2023 Cali which I recently sold, I'd say the depreciation in the past 3 - 6 months has been more marked than anytime over the past 2 or 3 years. Although not definitive the Motorway estimated sale price of my Cali dropped by 10% between Jan and April of this year.

That's a good insight - prices do seem to have fallen recently and private sellers are often a bit lagging in terms of the current levels. Having said that there is a lot of variation even on this site. Some prices seem more than optimistic, others pretty much spot on.

 

[Kevthegas]

Feel for you. But then I’ve lost around £15k in my 30’s on cars.
Now have 3 keepers where I’ll be paying them off once the PCP is finished.
Can’t see any other vehicles I’ll need.
California, convertible and defender.

Lost £££££ over the years.
Now content with Porsche Macan GTS, Vw Amarok V6 (320bhp) and lastly a Fiat Ducato Adria 640 SLX ( with a toilet and shower !!!)

 

[turnitdown]

In fairness to some of the ads on this site, they've probably been advertised for some months. Having monitored the value of my 2023 Cali which I recently sold, I'd say the depreciation in the past 3 - 6 months has been more marked than anytime over the past 2 or 3 years. Although not definitive the Motorway estimated sale price of my Cali dropped by 10% between Jan and April of this year.

I get that, although it's a bit tricky because if they had been priced properly, wouldn't they have sold (here or on another forum)? A problem with pricing too high, especially with a depreciable asset, is you chase the market down. You set your price at say 60k, when it should be 58k. It doesn't sell and then months later, seeing prices of 56k-58k, you lower your price to 58k. By then the market price is 56k and the process continues. And it doesn't take long for your 2 year old van to tip into being seen as a 3 year old van.

Prices seem all over the place, including at dealerships and auto trader. But most of these prices are irrelevant because the price floor or ceiling is set at the margins. If I see a van with the spec I want sell for (say) 60k, then I'm going to expect to pay around that for something similar, except in weird markets (e.g.covid).

 

[turnitdown]

I have no idea whether Motorway is accurate, but it's striking that after reading @Barry Chuckle 's comment, I put in info for two California's listed for sale online. Both came back with a valuation £10,000 below what is being asked. The valuations frankly seem low to me, but could Motorway really be nearly 20% off?

What's hard here is that few of us have any sense of what vans sell for, just what they get listed for.

 

[pjm-84]

Buying and selling....two opposite ends of the spectrum.

I was thinking about replacing my Volvo with an electric car. On paper the EV9 should tick the boxes (lets forget the looks at the moment) but I just dont think it worth anywhere near the money being asked. So I put a registration for an EV9 at £73k into WBAC and was offered £36k for it.

 

[Neuromancer11]

I have no idea whether Motorway is accurate, but it's striking that after reading @Barry Chuckle 's comment, I put in info for two California's listed for sale online. Both came back with a valuation £10,000 below what is being asked. The valuations frankly seem low to me, but could Motorway really be nearly 20% off?

What's hard here is that few of us have any sense of what vans sell for, just what they get listed for.

£10k trade to retail for a 70k vans seems about right to me

 

[m10chkcalifornia]

£10k trade to retail for a 70k vans seems about right to me

Yes, but a private sale is not 'retail'. There is no dealer protection (right to reject), no extended warranty etc. It is a classic problem - sellers want to get what a dealer would get for their vehicle, buyers want to pay what a dealer would pay for it. The sensible price point is between those two extremes, but it seldom seems to emerge!

 

[Norfolk Jim]

We bought our 2012 Cali SE 140 8 yrs ago for £33k off a guy on this forum. Nearly all our savings plus my BMW 520 Touring to fund it. We knew we would keep it for a good few years but expected usual Cali depreciation (still better than a car). So when I see similar aged vehicles ranging from £30k - £38k I just laugh. But then you see a “Joe Bloggs Camperlife“ conversion going for £25k+ and you realise the world has gone mad. When it comes to finance and the value of things the UK is on its arse. Crazy.

I bought our 2007 T5 Leisuredrive Crusader conversion in Jan 2015 for £19,5k with 34k miles on it. I sold it last week for £21k with 85k miles. It looked and drove the same as it did in 2015. Mind you Leisuredrive are pro's and started over 50 years ago; the Joe Bloggs Camperlife use the layout Leisuredrive formulated 50 years back. Having said that a new conversion by them is over 70k. I've just paid mid 60k for a late 2022 Ocean 204 DSG with a mirad of extras and 8k miles from dealer

 

[Neuromancer11]

Yes, but a private sale is not 'retail'. There is no dealer protection (right to reject), no extended warranty etc. It is a classic problem - sellers want to get what a dealer would get for their vehicle, buyers want to pay what a dealer would pay for it. The sensible price point is between those two extremes, but it seldom seems to emerge!

I don’t disagree with you, what’s described on this thread mirrors my buying experience two years ago, I couldn’t get my head around a 5 year old van costs £55-60k as a private sale when the new one I bought “only” cost me £69.5k with the free insurance, servicing etc

 

[pjm-84]

Covid.... I paid £65k for my P400 Defender , sold it for £76k to a dealer who put it up for £85k. You could order one for £71k but you would have had to wait 12 to 18months.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

I don’t disagree with you, what’s described on this thread mirrors my buying experience two years ago, I couldn’t get my head around a 5 year old van costs £55-60k as a private sale when the new one I bought “only” cost me £69.5k with the free insurance, servicing etc

Good spec’d used vans suffer less on depreciation than new vans. You need to look at the resale value of a new van in say 5 years.

Some would rather buy used and have £10-15k in their pocket, keep the van for 5 years and sell it for close to what they paid for it (if not more!).

 

[Barry Chuckle]

Covid.... I paid £65k for my P400 Defender , sold it for £76k to a dealer who put it up for £85k. You could order one for £71k but you would have had to wait 12 to 18months.

I bought my Defender D250 in 2021 for £72k, drove it 150 miles to a 4 x 4 dealer in Essex the same day on sold it for £76k. I bought my Range Rover a few weeks later for £115k, the same Essex dealer offered me £122k for it foolishly I decided to keep it and now I'd be lucky to only lose £35k on it after 18 months. My point is Covid/Chip Shortage was an utterly crazy time but now prices entering a very steep correction!

 

[Norfolk Jim]

During Covid I was offered 26k by at least 3 people eager to get out and about but i did resist as I could see Cali especially rocketing in price. I'm glad in a way I did hold out and got best of both worlds. Ironically the Nissan X Trail T31 I bought in 2018 for £4500 with 157k miles I sold during Covid for £5000 with 189k to a Naval CPO engineer who needed a reliable 4x4 to travel from Norfolk to Portsmouth weekly in all weathers. It's now just had MOT at 245k miles on original clutch and gearbox but is worth around £1k

 

[pearcejim]

We've tried a couple of times to sell 2012 Cali Beach on here, going to give Autotrader a go this time. Maybe there's a lack of enthusiasm for older vehicles and people would rather just pay a few hundred a month for something newer on a finance plan.
Let's see, the sun has come out at last so that might help..........

 

[Ch1pbutty]

We've tried a couple of times to sell 2012 Cali Beach on here, going to give Autotrader a go this time. Maybe there's a lack of enthusiasm for older vehicles and people would rather just pay a few hundred a month for something newer on a finance plan.
Let's see, the sun has come out at last so that might help..........

Try Facebook marketplace - has a very wide audience and it's free.

 

[pjm-84]

I bought my Defender D250 in 2021 for £72k, drove it 150 miles to a 4 x 4 dealer in Essex the same day on sold it for £76k. I bought my Range Rover a few weeks later for £115k, the same Essex dealer offered me £122k for it foolishly I decided to keep it and now I'd be lucky to only lose £35k on it after 18 months. My point is Covid/Chip Shortage was an utterly crazy time but now prices entering a very steep correction!

I got so tired of waiting for the Defender so I bought the X5 45e in the meantime hence the Defender didn't stay, after turning up 11.5month late....

So I had a free 9yr old VolvoXC70 out of it.

 

[Barry Chuckle]

Just saw this which is very interesting Hereford VW has just slashed the prices of it's Calis as you can see. I also reckon these are brand new despite what the ad indicates, as they're both not available for a few weeks....