Are the California residuals for real please ?

gatvol · Feb 11, 2012

Hello

I am considering buying a current generation california as I just love the design and functionality. I tested and drove one today and thought it was a superb piece of kit, and I could see myself driving it across the UK and europe having a great time.

I am just struggling to get my head around the cost of them. At say £45k to £50k new this puts them in BMW m3, or very good used porsche 911 territory. And £50k seems a lot to pay for what is fundamentally a £25k van

As they are too expensive new, I am fearful that used prices might plummet. Some £50k vehicles truly plummet - ie like a range rover, jaguar, bmw 7 series, audi a8, vw phaeton etc etc. For cars like this you can buy them a year old from a franchise dealer with say 10k miles at absolutely massive discounts to new (c 40% to 50% sometimes)

But the california resiuduals appear very strong for a vehicle that costs £50k. There is just one in the whole country for sale on autotrader for below £30k !. Strong residuals is great news - provided it is "real". Something like a lotus elise or nissan 350z once had superb residuals until the initial demand passed, then they collapsed

When I look at autotrader I was further amazed to see that of 37 used ones in the UK only 4 are from private sellers. This to me was a staggering ratio when these vehicles have been for sale in the uk for about 5 years now

My fear is thus - is VW perhaps buying up all the used ones up and reselling through franchised dealers to support prices ?

Do experienced owners have any views on residuals pls ? Has anyone sold one privately or back to a vw dealership so knows what the "real" used price is ?

Many thanks in advance for any advice you may be able to give me, as I really want one of these - but don't want to spend £50k on one to then realise about £20k for it in three years if I sell it!

calikev · Feb 11, 2012

Hi mate welcome along.
I owned a converted t5 before the Cali. That had a £13,000 conversion the van was £13k. I think the reason cali's hold there money so well is to buy a simular van to the Cali would cost you about £23k. The Cali roof is £4k if you wanted to buy a second hand Cali interior it would cost you at least £10k so on balance the Cali is reasonably priced. Vw campervans
Are very sort after but the problem with converted vans is you can't be sure how good the conversion is that's why
People buy cali's. My Cali was a year old when I bought it and it had lost only £2,000 I had a new car before that I paid
£23k. 18 months later it had lost £12k. So I would say the Cali is one of the best vehicles on the road for residual value
Go and buy one and enjoy.

BerndRos · Feb 11, 2012

At the end of the day, anything with 4 wheels and made of metal, will not hold its value, full stop. Cali will do better than some but if your thinking of residuals forget it. Have one and enjoy. As for if it's value for money, no its not, very expensive and over priced but that's not the point.

MKRW · Feb 11, 2012

No idea on residuals. My new van arrives in April or earlier and I can not wait.

I am sure they are pumped up, but having been looking at these since they came out I've bitten the bullet. If I'd bought when they first came out I think the price was just over £35k and looking at the prices it looks like these vans are going for similar prices.

In my view, there is still some upward pressure on prices over the next couple of years (unless the Euro really collapses). Look at the prices in Germany they are still more expensive over there for new at the moment.

Hubert · Feb 12, 2012

I am trading in my 09 174 purchased new for a new 180 (at the dealers now

)
When I purchased in 2009 there weren't many around, very rarely saw any whilst travelling, only once meeting another on site. We managed to get a good deal buying it from the showroom at the time. We have got what I believe is a fair deal, on trading in, getting almost as much as we paid for it new. It therefore wasn't worth the hassle of selling privately(could explain why most are at dealers). BUT of course the new vehicles are now a lot more expensive.

There are now more at the dealers and dealers are prepared to order stock knowing they will eventually sell. Whether this bodes well for future residuals remains to be seen.

Considering what's available on the campervan market new, they do represent good value price-wise compared to other VW conversions. The real competition is from alternative vans (sorry to swear :shocked

but the Hyundai from Wheelhouse, which is also based on the people carrier version, may tempt some people being the cost of early californias) but I don't believe they will hold their value as well as a VW. VW are the original campers.

They are an investment for a better life-style not financially, don't buy thinking that you can't lose much money. My advice would be to source what you are looking for either pre-registered (yes there are some) or a stock vehicle and then haggle.

Buy it because YOU believe it's the best and it's what YOU want

Hubert

DAW · Feb 12, 2012

Having just picked up a 6 month old 140ps with extras for £36k, I believe buying second hand almost new will protect you from the bigger depreciation numbers if you want to sell in a couple of years time for cash. It's just as you say there's not many about and you have to be quick and prepared to travel to view/buy.

Andy · Feb 12, 2012

Not many Calis hit the UK every year, I believe it is circa 400. There is a new order delivery of somewhere in order of 10 weeks.
Both of these mean that basically demand outstrips supply & thus residuals are high.

What would have a negative effect on residuals is if VW increase number that hit UK per year.

There are few private sales probably because people either keep them for ages or trade in for a new one.
Or possibly when spending this sort of money people want dealer backup ?

KernowLad · Feb 12, 2012

Don't forget that those used Calis have been bought by the dealer for a LOT less than the sticker price. Yes it's still "worth" £35k but the owner would have probably got £30k or even less for it.

Try selling one privately and you'd struggle -not many want to buy something that expensive privately! So seeing a new one for say £45k then a used one for £40k means the owner has probably taken a £10k hit.

We learned this lesson when we sold our near "depreciation proof" LR Defender!

I feel we did well on ours - listed at nearly £52k, we got it pre-registered (Sept 2011, bought it last month) with delivery mileage for under £45k. It's the EXACT spec we would have ordered new with a few extra "nice to have" items we probably would have been too tight to specify!

Cody · Feb 13, 2012

Do also remember that as soon as that Cali leaves the dealer it's lost 20% due to VAT.

David Eccles · Feb 15, 2012

bought a split devon camper 1978 cost £500
sold it in 2011 for £25000

residuals?
bought a Cali 2011 for a shedload.
whats it worth in 10 years? can't put a price on ten years of using it...

DavidofHook · Feb 22, 2012

Just exchanging our 2003 Cali , 89000 miles, left hand drive) for a new one ( collection early March)
Current Cali was £29000 in 2003, am getting £20000 in part exchange.
Good or bad? Not sure but seems pretty good to me compared with an 8 year old car. And, of course it is still pretty bomb proof ( as long as you get them serviced etc)