Saggy Bum

[clarinetbcn]

A CRS client after work done...and that's with the rear wheel arch cut lower than the front. Imagine if the rear arch were as high as the front!!

Suspension sagging at the rear. What can I do?

The wheel arch at the front is stamped into the body higher than the arch at the rear, so when the van is level there will be a smaller gap between the tire and arch at the back. To make the rear gap the same as the front, you will have to jack the rear of the van up in the air. Try measuring...

www.t6forum.com

 

[soulstyledevon]

I think he’s been watching to much A-Team…

 

[adamsteele2802]

Seems like a CRS witch hunt, why not continue the chat in the forum where they are represented? If the individual is happy with their own van that is all that matters be it level, saggy, high, low, beach, coast or ocean!

Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[tedgina]

A CRS client after work done...and that's with the rear wheel arch cut lower than the front. Imagine if the rear arch were as high as the front!!

Suspension sagging at the rear. What can I do?

The wheel arch at the front is stamped into the body higher than the arch at the rear, so when the van is level there will be a smaller gap between the tire and arch at the back. To make the rear gap the same as the front, you will have to jack the rear of the van up in the air. Try measuring...

www.t6forum.com

View attachment 86243

how can you comment on the van owners just by looking at pictures these will not tell you the van owners requirements and what they requested from the workshop

 

[soulstyledevon]

how can you comment on the van owners just by looking at pictures these will not tell you the van owners requirements and what they requested from the workshop

You’re absolutely right.
Possibly the owner asked for an unbalanced van. In this instance, it looks like he got what he asked for…

 

[sidepod]

This is getting a bit weird! Can’t we get back to Cycling Mickey, much more interesting

 

[SusiBus]

Can anybody with the correct qualifications and experience settle this post?

I'd like an answer that l'm happy that is the correct route to go, but who are we going to agree has the correct qualification to give it ?
Our 4Mo always looks generously down at the rear when fully loaded, (we travel with a full water tank because of wild camping ), but it doesn't feels unstable when driving. It just looks wrong!
I'm thinking of going either T32 rear springs or adjustable ones from Van Style, but unfortunately l've not got any qualifications in this field.

 

[B J G]

VW?

A 'possible' method to ascertain front to rear height difference.

Collect a range of boards of various thicknesses eg 10, 20, 30, 40mm in pairs.

Park on a 100% level hard standing, not so easy to locate as may be expecting. Carparks usually are sloping for rain water run off.

Place a spirit level on top of cooker glass. T6.1 Display could be used if deemed accurate enough.
Check if level or front high.
If front high place a pair of matching thickness boards under the rear wheels. Recheck spirit level and swap/add boards until level is achieved.

The thickness of boards used will show how much the rear needs raising, or front lowering.

Measurements can be taken from wheel centre (bottom of the wheel rim edge lip is easiest) to body wheel arches or anywhere that you wish as long as these measurements and reference points are noted and used for future repeated use.

 

[sidepod]

I’m not sure what the problem is here?

Vans leave the factory with a nominal ride height/spring setup.
People load their vans up with all sorts of junk which affects how the van sits.

If you want it level then you need to adjust the effective length of the rear/front/both shocks.

There are two ways to achieve this.

A. Fit coil overs which come with adjustable threaded collars which pre-load the spring or in other words shorten/lengthen it.
Doing this will raise/lower the van
The down side to this is it’s only good for whatever payload you have on board at the time.

B. Fit air suspension. This is a very crude balloon that sits inside the spring and can be pumped up/down to adjust the ride height. Its not capable of tuning the harshness, it simply changes height.
Advantage is it can be done easily and quickly with a change of payload.

Ride height alterations will affect geometry but in a builders van with a sink in the back, you’ll never notice.

 

[B J G]

I’m not sure what the problem is here?

Vans leave the factory with a nominal ride height/spring setup.
People load their vans up with all sorts of junk which affects how the van sits.

If you want it level then you need to adjust the effective length of the rear/front/both shocks.

There are two ways to achieve this.

A. Fit coil overs which come with adjustable threaded collars which pre-load the spring or in other words shorten/lengthen it.
Doing this will raise/lower the van
The down side to this is it’s only good for whatever payload you have on board at the time.

B. Fit air suspension. This is a very crude balloon that sits inside the spring and can be pumped up/down to adjust the ride height. Its not capable of tuning the harshness, it simply changes height.
Advantage is it can be done easily and quickly with a change of payload.

Ride height alterations will affect geometry but in a builders van with a sink in the back, you’ll never notice.

You have a couple of misleading points there.

The rear isn't a true coilover as the spring is separate to the damper. Damper length isn't used to change the height front or rear, the spring seat is wound up or down to alter the height.

Air suspension uses an air bag in place of the steel spring, inflating or deflating the air bag alters the ride height. Full air systems have computerised control of this to maintain the desired ride height.

Additionally ride height changes will be within the design parameters of the suspension geometry with no dangerous result.
Adjustment will probably be required to get the 'blueprint' settings.

 

[sidepod]

Pedantics. The point I’m making is the coil overs/dampers whatever you want to call them are adjustable in length

In reality the suspension units should be setup the same as a bike shock ie with a certain % of sag. The purpose being to allow the shock to extend into troughs in the road surface. If the damper/coil over is wound up with too much preload then it won’t have sufficient rebound to allow the tyre to track the road.

 

[BrendanJ]

I have no doubt that VW have designed a vehicle for a wide variety of uses, loads and driving styles, not to mention the range of vans from Transporter through to full California with all the extras.
Equally if it where possible to speak with a proper VW expert, we would here the immortal words, that It is in specification, in tolerance and that the handling and characteristics will vary on usage but also completely safe and in spec.
However as Customers we are all different, as evidenced by this thread
Some seem obsessed with it looking right, however they define that and measure that
Others , me included are not entirely happy with its ride and handling, but have to accept it is most likely within the parameters designed by VW. Leaving us with lots of options on how to improve it more to our “Personal liking” for which I respectfully suggest we talk to proper specialists than take too much attention to “a forums talking heads”
Personally my gripes with the my California is a lightness at the front going into roundabouts and strong curves at speed such as motorways, most unsettling. A certain wallowing feeling from side to side especially at the back and bouncy-ness which has led at times to passengers in the back and also my dog to suffer travel sickness. ( not good in the Yorkshire dales, Lake District or the south west I expect)
I am aware that as my daily drive is a BMW 5 series I may be somewhat spoilt and for sure cannot expect a fully laden camper van to behave the same way, I am however looking for some mitigation which will almost certainly involve some compromises even on ride height which it seems impossible to square the round of either level at wheel arches or level at floor level ( and bed level)
I have consulted with specialists and without revealing details and thus entering into the nonsense debate of what is good and what is bad for which I am not qualified ( and I suspect neither are most of you) I will shortly be going ahead with their recommendations and will let you know the outcome at that time. Hopefully it will solve my problems and meet my requirements. Which again as evidenced by this thread varies so much from person to person and van to van.

 

[clarinetbcn]

how can you comment on the van owners just by looking at pictures these will not tell you the van owners requirements and what they requested from the workshop

How can you comment on my post without realizing that you also reposted my link to the entire original thread posted by the van owner?

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

Don’t have any suspension modifications done until the excesses of Christmas are factored in. There could be quite a lot of extra saggy bottom weight up front which will upset the calculations

 

[B J G]

I have no doubt that VW have designed a vehicle for a wide variety of uses, loads and driving styles, not to mention the range of vans from Transporter through to full California with all the extras.
Equally if it where possible to speak with a proper VW expert, we would here the immortal words, that It is in specification, in tolerance and that the handling and characteristics will vary on usage but also completely safe and in spec.
However as Customers we are all different, as evidenced by this thread
Some seem obsessed with it looking right, however they define that and measure that
Others , me included are not entirely happy with its ride and handling, but have to accept it is most likely within the parameters designed by VW. Leaving us with lots of options on how to improve it more to our “Personal liking” for which I respectfully suggest we talk to proper specialists than take too much attention to “a forums talking heads”
Personally my gripes with the my California is a lightness at the front going into roundabouts and strong curves at speed such as motorways, most unsettling. A certain wallowing feeling from side to side especially at the back and bouncy-ness which has led at times to passengers in the back and also my dog to suffer travel sickness. ( not good in the Yorkshire dales, Lake District or the south west I expect)
I am aware that as my daily drive is a BMW 5 series I may be somewhat spoilt and for sure cannot expect a fully laden camper van to behave the same way, I am however looking for some mitigation which will almost certainly involve some compromises even on ride height which it seems impossible to square the round of either level at wheel arches or level at floor level ( and bed level)
I have consulted with specialists and without revealing details and thus entering into the nonsense debate of what is good and what is bad for which I am not qualified ( and I suspect neither are most of you) I will shortly be going ahead with their recommendations and will let you know the outcome at that time. Hopefully it will solve my problems and meet my requirements. Which again as evidenced by this thread varies so much from person to person and van to van.

My personal findings on reducing the wallowing feel has been due to mainly 2 items >

Fitting SUV tyres with a more rigid sidewall, previously I could push the Cali by hand at a rear corner and make it oscillate/wallow.
Interested to hear if those changing from 215/60/17, commercial, tyres to 235/55/17, car, tyres thought that wallowing increased.
Fitting Poly bushes which had adjustment for Caster & Camber on the front plus Camber and usual alignment on the rear.

HD ARB's and ride height adjustment made body roll significantly less.

I have found that many Suppliers of suspension parts know little about what are the best options as they are in Business to sell products.

Fortunately or not due the Transporter being a centre for performance modifications there are many parts available for owners to customise their van to individual requirements.

 

[sidepod]

Car manufacturers go to great lengths to set vehicles up to behave predictably, by predictably I mean understeer which they deem safe. Example. BMW I30 has different rear tyre widths than front. This is specifically to promote understeer. Unfortunately for a keen driver this is sub optimal.
There isn’t a great deal can be achieved with the builders van we love. Just makes it as quiet and comfortable as possible and enjoy the view.

 

[sidepod]

I have my van set up for 2 deg neg camber and max caster at the front. HD ARB’s front and rear and 55 series tyres on 17” rims.
It’s pretty sharp on turn in with minimal roll.
In other words, as BJG says above, it’s definitely worth having a play but manage expectations.

 

[Loz]

Free set of T32 springs you could try?

Sold - T32 springs and shocks

FREE. Used set taken from a 2016 LWB T32. 33K miles. Collection only from near Oxford.

www.t6forum.com

 

[tedgina]

How can you comment on my post without realizing that you also reposted my link to the entire original thread posted by the van owner?

How can you comment on my post without realizing that you also reposted my link to the entire original thread posted by the van owner?

How can you comment on my post without realizing that you also reposted my link to the entire original thread posted by the van owner?

well why not ,hey its a forum not a place for slagging people off ️

 

[BrendanJ]

My personal findings on reducing the wallowing feel has been due to mainly 2 items >

Fitting SUV tyres with a more rigid sidewall, previously I could push the Cali by hand at a rear corner and make it oscillate/wallow.
Interested to hear if those changing from 215/60/17, commercial, tyres to 235/55/17, car, tyres thought that wallowing increased.
Fitting Poly bushes which had adjustment for Caster & Camber on the front plus Camber and usual alignment on the rear.

HD ARB's and ride height adjustment made body roll significantly less.

I have found that many Suppliers of suspension parts know little about what are the best options as they are in Business to sell products.

Fortunately or not due the Transporter being a centre for performance modifications there are many parts available for owners to customise their van to individual requirements.

Great imput
I have the 235/55/17 tyres!!!
I am also considering the HD Arbs
Also Koni active shocks
And still undecided about lifting rear, plus side seems more grounded front end, less under steer but level of van as defined by shall we say sleeping position lost
For me depends on whether shocks and arb can do the job and whether I am really suffering under steer ( remember I am no expert) or whether I am just experiencing movement of the van because of weak springs / shocks/ Arb

 

[soulstyledevon]

Great imput
I have the 235/55/17 tyres!!!
I am also considering the HD Arbs
Also Koni active shocks
And still undecided about lifting rear, plus side seems more grounded front end, less under steer but level of van as defined by shall we say sleeping position lost
For me depends on whether shocks and arb can do the job and whether I am really suffering under steer ( remember I am no expert) or whether I am just experiencing movement of the van because of weak springs / shocks/ Arb

I have might have some Koni active shocks for sale shortly, if you’re interested…

 

[larrylamb]

There isn’t a great deal can be achieved with the builders van we love. Just makes it as quiet and comfortable as possible and enjoy the view.

Exactly this.
It's a 2.5 ton van with another half ton of people, water, bikes etc.etc. it's obviously going to sag a bit and you will have to slow down for a roundabout. Not rocket science really.
Enjoy your Cali.

 

[B J G]

I have my van set up for 2 deg neg camber and max caster at the front. HD ARB’s front and rear and 55 series tyres on 17” rims.
It’s pretty sharp on turn in with minimal roll.
In other words, as BJG says above, it’s definitely worth having a play but manage expectations.

On my alignment printout it has the following figures

Front
Caster max 5o 00'min 3o 40' set at 4o 41' and 4o 52' L&R
Camber max 0o 15' min -1o 15' set at -1o 14' and -1o 07' L&R
Rear
Camber max -0o 15' min-1o 45' set at -1o 42' and -1o 35' L&R

lower case o is used for degree symbol.

These were set with what would be considered as lowered from standard ride height.
Garage used Half Load figures.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

There are clearly 3 big factors at play here feeding this (too) long cyclical thread -
There is an optical illusion that makes the van not look level.
Also people do load their van so this does lower the rear.
Lots of people like to muck around with their vans. I don’t, and think some mods sound crazy, but it’s their van, not mine.

 

[Wesel]

Do this and you can adjust the level as you want