Servicing- Is this the sign of things to come?

[Wogga]

Got an Ocean on order, currently have a, Skoda 3 years old and just had a service reminder that it was due an oil change, booked it and got it done. Whilst I was at the garage the service admin tottled over to me and said “it is recommended that the brake fluid needs changing and the 4 motion oil needs changing and we can do an air on service,

now the fact she said recommended I declined as the car will be going in a month or two when the Cali arrives And I wasn’t going to fork out another £400.

just had a reminder about the HalDex oil needs changing. If these things are on the servicing schedule I’d get them done but it just seems recommended is a way of drumming up some busines!

Having read the debates about servicing on here Cambelts etc do VW actually publish an actual printed servicing schedule for the Cali? Anyone have a copy they’d share.?

PS I have had MB’s for the last 20 years and everything was fixed price servicing no shocks unless the brake pads needed doing.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Got an Ocean on order, currently have a, Skoda 3 years old and just had a service reminder that it was due an oil change, booked it and got it done. Whilst I was at the garage the service admin tottled over to me and said “it is recommended that the brake fluid needs changing and the 4 motion oil needs changing and we can do an air on service,

now the fact she said recommended I declined as the car will be going in a month or two when the Cali arrives And I wasn’t going to fork out another £400.

just had a reminder about the HalDex oil needs changing. If these things are on the servicing schedule I’d get them done but it just seems recommended is a way of drumming up some busines!

Sounds like our Audi garage in Brighton, just missing the recommendation to also change the tires (even though they have plenty of tread left) combined with the fact that they normally can't collect / deliver or offer a courtesy car.

To be fair alot of items are mileage or interval based so difficult to have one service price for all as will depend on how many miles you do, especially if service interval is 2 years...so they normally have the menu price which breaks down individual items, trouble is that if they all come at the same time you need more than the 'free' coffee to get you through.

 

[andyinluton]

PS I have had MB’s for the last 20 years and everything was fixed price servicing no shocks unless the brake pads needed doing.

I had my 2 year old Merc serviced last week, a basic B service, 12 months & only 4000 miles since the last service. The cost was more than my total expenditure on servicing including replacing pads & disks on my cali in 6 years & 56,000 miles.

So the shock with mercedes is at the price of a basic service - the brakes on it will need doing next year if I actually get to drive it much, I needed to sit down when told how much that would cost.

As a comparison Cali - tyres servicing & fuel & depreciation works out at about £0.23 per mile over the last 6 years the merc for the same is currently at about £2.00 per mile

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

I had my 2 year old Merc serviced last week, a basic B service, 12 months & only 4000 miles since the last service. The cost was more than my total expenditure on servicing including replacing pads & disks on my cali in 6 years & 56,000 miles.

So the shock with mercedes is at the price of a basic service - the brakes on it will need doing next year if I actually get to drive it much, I needed to sit down when told how much that would cost.

As a comparison Cali - tyres servicing & fuel & depreciation works out at about £0.23 per mile over the last 6 years the merc for the same is currently at about £2.00 per mile

My last Mercedes was covered by a service plan but at the 2019 MOT they recommended that I had front pads and discs replaced (not cheap). I declined saying that I’d wait a bit until the brake pad warning light came on. A year later at the 2020 MOT they again recommended that the pads and discs were replaced. I reminded them that they said that last year and that my brake pad light had still not come on. It was greeted with a guilty smile

 

[California4x4]

I had my 2 year old Merc serviced last week, a basic B service, 12 months & only 4000 miles since the last service. The cost was more than my total expenditure on servicing including replacing pads & disks on my cali in 6 years & 56,000 miles.

So the shock with mercedes is at the price of a basic service - the brakes on it will need doing next year if I actually get to drive it much, I needed to sit down when told how much that would cost.

As a comparison Cali - tyres servicing & fuel & depreciation works out at about £0.23 per mile over the last 6 years the merc for the same is currently at about £2.00 per mile

It sounds like leasing the Marc would be cheaper?

It will be interesting to see how the industry goes. It wasn’t long ago that in the software world, everyone bought the software for a fixed price and updated when required, now people have got used to paying a monthly fee to use always updated software.

There seem to be more and more people leasing cars in the same fashion and not worrying about service costs or wear and tear. While this might seem crazy if you’ve always saved to buy your vehicles, there are many who always have them on a finance deal and leasing becomes a known cost with no surprises when you’re living month to month and therefore an easy next step.

It is interesting that Tesla (obviously not a conventional vehicle company) have made a decision to do away with most of their show rooms and service centres and move to online purchases only.

 

[andyinluton]

Well the Merc was supposed to be traded/sold but lockdown happened & has left me holding a few more cars than I really wanted!

It was the best fun car I could find that suited where I was working.
Im fed up with Porsches so went for a car faster in a straight line but is not so good in the corners & is lethal in the wet, it makes driving a bit more interesting!
I've kept it short term as I wanted an auto for driving into our Covent Garden office as I dont like public transport at the moment, if I get a new cali I will use that instead but am currently evaluating work/commuting/early retirement/ career change before commiting.

 

[Wogga]

I am not regretting the purchase it is just the all the “extras”. Not so long ago vehicles had there service intervals and set operations that would be covered dependant on mileage or interval, whichever came first.

Brake fluid change seems new to me at such a short age, 45+ years of motoring never had to do it before? Cambelt at 40k allegedly? Thought modern vehicles got 100k out of a belt?

Too many recommendation? Is there actually a schedule produced by the manufacture Or is it on the computer?

 

[andyinluton]

Brake fluid change seems new to me at such a short age, 45+ years of motoring never had to do it before? Cambelt at 40k allegedly? Thought modern vehicles got 100k out of a belt?

When your ford cortina failed its first MOT with rust at 3 years, changing the brake fluid was probably the least of your worries.

Cambelts are the strange one, it seems to depend on what language you speak as to how long they last with VW. I think it should be mandatory that engines are designed so that there is no damage if the belt goes. That way you could leave it till it snaps or at least fails a visual inspection.

My morgan built 2017 still needs its suspension greasing every 1000 miles so things have improved on some maintenance items.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Cambelts are the strange one, it seems to depend on what language you speak as to how long they last with VW. I think it should be mandatory that engines are designed so that there is no damage if the belt goes. That way you could leave it till it snaps or at least fails a visual inspection.

It's well known that driving on the left makes the cambelt wear much more quickly. That's why in Germany a cam belt lasts 100,000 km or ten years, while in the UK you start playing cam belt roulette after 4 years (so we are told).

 

[Perfectos]

The T6 forum has some discussion regarding this subject

T6 Service Intervals & Inspection, Flexible & Longlife

T6 Service intervals & inspections , Flexible & Longlife : Im just posting this here to make it easier to refer back to in future . . . source: Volkswagen Flexible Service Regimes (Longlife) | Volkswagen...

www.t6forum.com

 

[TripleBee]

Brake fluid attracts water, so the first change is due after 3 years. Then every 2 years.
Cambelt is due after 210000km (130500mi), or recommended 10 years.
Brake pads/discs, depending on driving style.
(automatic) Gearbox fluid is due after 60000km or 4 years, haldex oil something similar (don't know exact km or years).
You can leave all your oils and fluids in there if you like, but I know everything gets changed at the right time or mileage in my van. Why spending a small fortune on a van just to neglect it for the rest of it's life (that will be much shorter that way)?

 

[Wogga]

Brake fluid attracts water, so the first change is due after 3 years. Then every 2 years.
Cambelt is due after 210000km (130500mi), or recommended 10 years.
Brake pads/discs, depending on driving style.
(automatic) Gearbox fluid is due after 60000km or 4 years, haldex oil something similar (don't know exact km or years).
You can leave all your oils and fluids in there if you like, but I know everything gets changed at the right time or mileage in my van. Why spending a small fortune on a van just to neglect it for the rest of it's life (that will be much shorter that way)?

Cheers for the detail, just needed some transparency it is a bit goading when once you are in the dealers the extras surface.

 

[Wogga]

The T6 forum has some discussion regarding this subject

T6 Service Intervals & Inspection, Flexible & Longlife

T6 Service intervals & inspections , Flexible & Longlife : Im just posting this here to make it easier to refer back to in future . . . source: Volkswagen Flexible Service Regimes (Longlife) | Volkswagen...

www.t6forum.com

Cheers for that Perfectos very comprehensiv.

 

[California4x4]

My second service is due fairly soon. My camper is in the body shop having the back door stripped and re painted under warranty due to five zinc inclusions that have started to look like herpes under the paint. VW Customer Care were unable to provide me with a courtesy vehicle and suggested I hired one at my expense and they would give me my next service free. It will be interesting to see how many ‘extras’ they bump on or recommend when they are paying the bill.

 

[westfalia]

Im fed up with Porsches so went for a car faster in a straight line but is not so good in the corners & is lethal in the wet, it makes driving a bit more interesting!

Thats one from KernowLad's locker if ever i saw one.

 

[sidepod]

I think it should be mandatory that engines are designed so that there is no damage if the belt goes. That way you could leave it till it snaps or at least fails a visual inspection.

God I love the internet. Why can’t people just have a conversation in their own head that goes roughly “do I have the faintest idea what I’m about to rant about”? If the answer is “no” then just shut the f**k up.
That is possibly the most idiotic thing I’ve read online all day, but hilarious non the less.

 

[Velma's Dad]

God I love the internet. Why can’t people just have a conversation in their own head that goes roughly “do I have the faintest idea what I’m about to rant about”? If the answer is “no” then just shut the f**k up.
That is possibly the most idiotic thing I’ve read online all day, but hilarious non the less.

You could be generous and allow the fact that some engines that have a 'non-interference' design are much more likely to be non-catastrophic in a belt failure. (Non-interference meaning the valves and piston faces can't collide even if the valve train timing is lost). Maybe that's what the poster meant?

 

[westfalia]

You could be generous and allow the fact that some engines that have a 'non-interference' design are much more likely to be non-catastrophic in a belt failure. (Non-interference meaning the valves and piston faces can't collide even if the valve train timing is lost). Maybe that's what the poster meant?

Wankel?

Hopefully my spell checker is correk

 

[Velma's Dad]

Wankel?

Hopefully my spell checker is correk

Who are you calling a...

But seriously, a lot of older, under-square 4-stroke engines had non-interfering valve gear. And even more recently - I believe the MX5 1.8L engine was non-interference, so no worries about a snappy cambelt on those.

(However, driving around in an MX5 will seriously interfere with your image.)

 

[andyinluton]

God I love the internet. Why can’t people just have a conversation in their own head that goes roughly “do I have the faintest idea what I’m about to rant about”? If the answer is “no” then just shut the f**k up.
That is possibly the most idiotic thing I’ve read online all day, but hilarious non the less.

Sidepod


I do think in this case you are the one that should shut the F**K up do a bit of research.

I'll keep it simple for your benefit as you obviously need help, you can have what is known as an interference engine or a non- interference engine - google it!

When a none interference engine has its cam belt snap the bits that whizz around inside the engine that don't stop the instant the belt snaps don't hit each other and make a mess. You can buy a new belt, fit it, obviously reseting the engine timing and drive off into the distance as if nothing ever happened. The resulting conversation is likely to be something like I got a bit unlucky there it had only lasted 9 years 11 months & the handbook suggested I change it at 10 years.

If you have an interference engine, the result is a bit different all those moving bits, (valves & Pistons for the more technical minded) can come into contact with each other if the belt snaps. Depending on the particular engine & your luck it might just be a bent valve or two, or it might be valve shaped big dents in your pistons. Either of the above lead to very big bills & comments like " I wish id changed the belt at 4 years like the handbook suggested" or some other less polite terms.

You can google for a list of what cars are fitted with which type, if you know what you've got it may change your attitude as to whether its worth a big bill to change a belt just for preventative reasons or particularly on an older car just to take the chance after doing an annual visual check.


A quick google suggests the following:

Volkswagen

TDI 1.8L – 8 valve Non-Interference
2.0L – 8 valve Non-Interference (However there have been instances of bent valves)
16 valve diesels Interference
VR6 Interference

 

[sidepod]

Compression ratio in Diesel engines. Cranking speeds. Super chargers. Loss of service cost. Who/why would it be made mandatory.

 

[Alan Andrews]

Read the small print in your Warranty contract. Generally you need to comply with manufacturers servicing regime in order to maintain your warranty.

I am of the opinion that servicing costs should be built in to calculations of ownership. As someone else said, why pay a huge sum on the Cali only to forego on its servicing? Is a false economy to skimp now.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

As someone else said, why pay a huge sum on the Cali only to forego on its servicing? Is a false economy to skimp now.

Same with any car (even a banger needs tlc), or, house for that matter.

 

[GSX1300R]

I had my 2 year old Merc serviced last week, a basic B service, 12 months & only 4000 miles since the last service. The cost was more than my total expenditure on servicing including replacing pads & disks on my cali in 6 years & 56,000 miles.

So the shock with mercedes is at the price of a basic service - the brakes on it will need doing next year if I actually get to drive it much, I needed to sit down when told how much that would cost.

As a comparison Cali - tyres servicing & fuel & depreciation works out at about £0.23 per mile over the last 6 years the merc for the same is currently at about £2.00 per mile

That’s the joy of owning a Mercedes. But that’s not all I think they have an inbuilt clock that strikes at one day after the 3 year warranty expires and then that’s when you start racking up the big bills..I had a new SLK and the most memorable thing about it was when I got rid of it..After 2 complete back to metal resprays...

 

[Velma's Dad]

Same with any car (even a banger needs tlc), or, house for that matter.

There's a false logic assumption built into that, although the car motor industry will love you for it. Just because a vehicle costs £xxx to make/buy, why should it then necessarily cost £yyy a year to keep on the road? We are brainwashed to assume that most be so, which enables car makers to promote new cars at showroom prices that actually absolutely rely on aftermarket economics to create profit that meets the company's cost of capital.

Very much like RyanAir's £9.99 ticket - that only works where they can get another £xxx out of you for stuff you didn't know you actually needed, like a place to put your bag on the plane.

In economic terms, any maintenance costs of a product are a drain on public welfare. They generate some local profit for the car dealership and the replacement cambelt manufacturer etc, BUT (and look up Bastiat's Broken Window Fallacy if you're interested) they are a net dis-benefit to society.