Should we stay or should we go?

[Kirk]

What do we all think of us staying or leaving Europe? What implications will it have for the Cali if we leave the EU in regards to our Cali and travelling to Europe?

 

[greenfintry]

The joyful prospect of being held up at every border while EU passport holders drive by...... I would also guess that the need to make an example of the UK to deter other EU nations leaving could result in other controls too (maybe like going into Switzerland and paying for use of the roads etc).

 

[greenfintry]

Mind you, that could well apply to crossing into Scotland as well as a second referendum is on the cards if the vote is for UK but not in Scotland Brexit

 

[GrannyJen]

End of cheap booze. My wine bill would go from extravagant to exorbitant

 

[T6 CFO]

OK I shall try to put my sensible head on for this one but no doubt offend half or more of the board.
Go as it would have the benefit of stopping the bitching about Europe and put the responsibility back on the shoulders of our elected representatives. I do not however like it when the debate gets hijacked by issues on immigration or security.
My conclusion is it has never been possible to split the necessity for greater fiscal union from political union. As we are not, rightly in my opinion in the euro then it is time to leave. Ask yourself would you vote to go in.
As for the SNP wanting another referendum if they voted for in and the rest out well carry on. Getting rather fed up with that threat.
Serious head off again

 

[bigmac77]

I have absolutely no idea. I usually vote and hope to in this in out referendum but i am seriously concerned about getting unbiased information as to the pros and cons of voting either way, it all seems like scare mongering at the moment.

 

[T6 CFO]

I have absolutely no idea. I usually vote and hope to in this in out referendum but i am seriously concerned about getting unbiased information as to the pros and cons of voting either way, it all seems like scare mongering at the moment.

To be honest I'm with you and agree with your dislike of negative campaigning. I kicked off with a reply mainly to stimulate debate and a starting point for discussion. Probably one of the most important votes left in my lifetime and one I would like to use wisely. Certainly not going to be boring and hopefully there will be some proper none sound bite reporting from at least some of the media.

 

[AlisonF]

Wasn't sure whether to reply to this post as it is a digression from our Cali interest. Eventually decided people can chose to read it or not (that's the point, yes?)...
So back on topic, unfortunately negative campaigning is not just with EU in / out campaigning. British politics is, in my view, unfortunately only ever one party making a statement and the others all clambering round to pick faults. Boring That's the easiest thing in the world to do. Being constructive is a lot harder, it seems. I found it so refreshing living 15 years as an expat in the Netherlands and Norway and still daily follow their news bulletins as I find them more informative, less biased and with less negativity for the sake of it than our UK ones.

 

[2into1]

The joyful prospect of being held up at every border while EU passport holders drive by...... I would also guess that the need to make an example of the UK to deter other EU nations leaving could result in other controls too (maybe like going into Switzerland and paying for use of the roads etc).

I suspect if we do leave, wouldn't we have to just show passports on entering the Schengen area (Calais) but would then be able to tour around without hassle until we leave Schengen?

But by the way things are going, Schengen area may be getting rather smaller without regard to anything we do.

 

[T6 CFO]

I would like to think we can make an exception on this topic so yes

 

[Aidy P]

Wasn't sure whether to reply to this post as it is a digression from our Cali interest. Eventually decided people can chose to read it or not (that's the point, yes?)...
So back on topic, unfortunately negative campaigning is not just with EU in / out campaigning. British politics is, in my view, unfortunately only ever one party making a statement and the others all clambering round to pick faults. Boring That's the easiest thing in the world to do. Being constructive is a lot harder, it seems. I found it so refreshing living 15 years as an expat in the Netherlands and Norway and still daily follow their news bulletins as I find them more informative, less biased and with less negativity for the sake of it than our UK ones.

Hi. What was it like living in Norway and not being part of the EU? Did you feel disadvantaged in any way?

 

[AlisonF]

Aidy P
I loved living and working in Norway. I didn't feel disadvantaged - but then I was there as an expat living in someone else's beautiful and well managed country so my perspective is not the real one you're after...
The Norwegian way has been used / misused in many discussions on Scottish Independence, UK oil&gas taxes and now Brexit. I have my views, but find it a very sensitive subject with a lot of emotion around it so, I hope you don't think I'm shirking the question, but on this subject will prefer to keep my views to myself...

 

[Aidy P]

Aidy P
I loved living and working in Norway. I didn't feel disadvantaged - but then I was there as an expat living in someone else's beautiful and well managed country so my perspective is not the real one you're after...
The Norwegian way has been used / misused in many discussions on Scottish Independence, UK oil&gas taxes and now Brexit. I have my views, but find it a very sensitive subject with a lot of emotion around it so, I hope you don't think I'm shirking the question, but on this subject will prefer to keep my views to myself...

Of course. I'm finding UK media very frustrating and haven't met any Norwegians recently. Thanks anyway.

 

[Hotel California]

If i may say ,
what did EU and the Euro bring us ....not much positive imo.
From my side, back each country their own value and borders!
Think UK do best to stay out.

 

[AlisonF]

Aidy
I found the Norwegians to be very proud and I think most liked the fact that they had their independence from the EU. Up until the oil price crash there was very low unemployment and a very wealthy state. I would be interested to see how their views change if the oil price stays low for a long period. However, we don't have the opportunity to wait and see how it impacts them and nor can we say that it is relevant for us as we are a completely different nation - the constant comparison of apples and pears is pulling a smokescreen over things...

 

[Aidy P]

Aidy
I found the Norwegians to be very proud and I think most liked the fact that they had their independence from the EU. Up until the oil price crash there was very low unemployment and a very wealthy state. I would be interested to see how their views change if the oil price stays low for a long period. However, we don't have the opportunity to wait and see how it impacts them and nor can we say that it is relevant for us as we are a completely different nation - the constant comparison of apples and pears is pulling a smokescreen over things...

Thanks @AlisonF . Coincidently the Norwegian Prime Minister was interviewed on a BBC1 proramme tonight at 9pm...and she said she would vote to join the EU...but she was in a minority. Norway still has to agree to the same rules to trade in the EU but cannot influence them.

 

[Lewis]

I just hope we get to engage with a high quality debate about the issues and particularly the economic impact. My fear is that the 24hr news cycles won't be excited enough about that and will spend the time banging on about how it affects the chances of potential future Tory party leaders. That's all I've heard since the referendum was announced, oh and a load of stuff about reducing benefits tourism which is such a minor issue compared to the business questions, it drives me mad that newspapers give over their front pages to it.

 

[fred]

The overwhelming argument is that it is far and away in our economic interests to be in the EU. Developed countries in the EU (UK, Germany) benefit the most from the free trade agreement within the EU. Many large businesses I work (including likely my own) with will be relocating to mainland Europe in the case of a Brexit. The Scots will likely seek a referendum to split away from the UK and win the vote, leaving England, Wales and NI.

The whole "sovereignty" argument is something of a red herring as what would we have sovereignty over? Half an irrelevant little island offshore of Europe?

 

[AlanC]

Simon Sweeney, Lecturer in international political economy, University of York, has summed up the EU and the value to the UK since we joined well I think.

Find it on Donnachadh McCarthy facebook page.

Alan

 

[shudycamps]

What do we all think of us staying or leaving Europe? What implications will it have for the Cali if we leave the EU in regards to our Cali and travelling to Europe?

Zero

 

[shudycamps]

Aidy
I found the Norwegians to be very proud and I think most liked the fact that they had their independence from the EU. Up until the oil price crash there was very low unemployment and a very wealthy state. I would be interested to see how their views change if the oil price stays low for a long period. However, we don't have the opportunity to wait and see how it impacts them and nor can we say that it is relevant for us as we are a completely different nation - the constant comparison of apples and pears is pulling a smokescreen over things...

Ever since Alexander Litvinenko died over here and the Government "went" after Russia, the oil pipeline was cut off to us. We used to get oil from Norway and if the public knew at times how little our backup was, they would have fainted. I can't see our economy collapsing and the public at large going out on the streets with Tin Cup in hand. What I can see is the uncontrolled eastern block having the plug pulled. Perhaps in 5 yrs then, the public services, eg, NHS and schools start to recover. It is having control over what the people of the UK want and not what mummy EU says what we can have or not. The inability of the EU to respond to the refugee crisis is now a source of huge instability within Europe. For example, if the members of the Schengen agreement are asking for the very basic of nationhood, ie, the right to control their borders, check passports and DECIDE who should get welfare, well this most basic element of control is being denied by the EU. in refusing it, the EU escalates the crisis. It's intransigence is causing a crippling political situation, just ask Merkel. The PM said we would struggle to negotiate a trade deal with Brussels under two year's time. Well at the rate the EU is handling the refugee crisis, in two year's time, it just might be academic. In other words, no EU will exist.

 

[Geezso]

I hate politics and like Alison F tend not to discuss my feelings. I am however sick of everything we appear to vote for continues to be compromised at our cost, while the rich become richer we cannot afford to fix sewage problems in hospital units. For me its a lose lose, and just trying to plod along in the mean time.

 

[Geezso]

Oh and as far as the initial poll goes

I vote option 3. Which is don't care. Because no matter what happens, just like the Scottish Referendum, we wont hear the end of the alternative outcome and that we made the wrong choice.