Snow chains vs snow tyres question

[Pollewop]

The other factor that is making me think (possibly foolishly) this will all be fine is big coaches go to this resort to drop off clients with luggage etc etc so I am (naively??) assuming the road will be clear apart from possibly a dusting of snow - exactly as you describe above.

So buy snow tyres!!

I haven’t been skiing for 10 years. Never driven before. My kids have never been before. I hope that we will go again but it’s possible we won’t. Hence my resistance to buy a set of wheels and snow tyres. Otherwise I would definitely.

So buy all season tyres!!

You may be the perfect customer for all-season tires. You usually drive in the UK where there is little snow, but relatively much rain. You are now going to winter sports, and there you really need tires that can handle snow.
All-season tires offer the best of both worlds (imho). I've been driving my California from the start with factory fitted Continental Vancontact 4 season tires, and I'm very happy with their performance, both in summer as in winter conditions.
Good all-season tires may not be as good as the best summer tires or the best winter tires, but they are certainly as good as average summer or winter tires, and you can drive them anywhere, all year round...
In any case, they are much better than summer tires in the snow, with or without a snow chain. Something that is an absolute "no-go".

 

[WelshGas]

The other factor that is making me think (possibly foolishly) this will all be fine is big coaches go to this resort to drop off clients with luggage etc etc so I am (naively??) assuming the road will be clear apart from possibly a dusting of snow - exactly as you describe above.

So buy snow tyres!!

I haven’t been skiing for 10 years. Never driven before. My kids have never been before. I hope that we will go again but it’s possible we won’t. Hence my resistance to buy a set of wheels and snow tyres. Otherwise I would definitely.

So buy all season tyres!!

Coaches weigh a few Kgms more than a California and are probably running Winter tyres for the season.

Having inappropriate tyres for the conditions, as you mentioned Summer tyres, then you could find your Insurance Company refusing any possible claim.

I would suggest fitting reputable 4 Season tyres, with the 3 Peaks symbol, and carry snow chains.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

@Lambeth Cali

How many miles do you do a year ?

I know it is not recommended to use winter tyres in the summer, due to greater wear and longer stopping distances, etc but we have done so on my wife's SUV for ten years now. She does less than 5000 miles a year so wear in't a big factor.

Also, having driven on a skiing holiday to the French Alps a few years ago in an Audi A3 Quattro fitted with summer tyres, I would NEVER do the same again. On the packed down snow, it was a scary experience even with the Quattro giving some additional traction up the hills. On the flat and downhill, it was like permanently being on sheet ice. I had a set of chains for the front wheels, but found them impractical to keep fitting and removing between stretches of treated and untreated road on the long journey back down the mountains to the valley bottom.

In comparison, when we got there and used my godfather's beaten up front wheel drive VW Golf fitted with proper winter tyres all round, it was a completely different experience. In the summer he used to leave the winter tyres on the Golf which he kept at the resort.

We do 5000 miles a year in the California. Thanks, a good tip.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

Quite a bit of opposing advice. I suppose that’s what the forum is for!

 

[Pollewop]

Quite a bit of opposing advice. I suppose that’s what the forum is for!

Yes, that's true... In the end you'll have de decide...
One additional remark: Good all-season tires also carry the "3PMSF" marking, so they are full qualified to be used in winter conditions, equal to winter tires...

 

[Lambeth Cali]

Went for Michelin Agilis CrossClimate. Fitting on Friday, 3 interest-free payments.

Changed my mind from VanContact Winters at the last moment.

When in doubt, spend the money. When in doubt, listen to @WelshGas !!

 

[RockinNRollin]

Just on coaches; remember they have their (substantially heavy) engines sat right over the rear axle. I've been on a normal single-decker bus in snow in England (definitely not winter tyres!!) and been gobsmacked at the traction they manage in snowy conditions. Winter tyres on and they'll be very competent.

 

[andyinluton]

Just on coaches; remember they have their (substantially heavy) engines sat right over the rear axle. I've been on a normal single-decker bus in snow in England (definitely not winter tyres!!) and been gobsmacked at the traction they manage in snowy conditions. Winter tyres on and they'll be very competent.

Not getting traction to go forwards doesn't normally have serious consequences, lack of grip for stopping is usually far more of a problem.


Many years ago I was on UK coach in the Italian Alps that tried to save an hour by not putting on snow chains on a decent because there was only a couple of miles before we get to below the snow line. We went through the Armco on the first corner. Think of the final scenes in the Italian job, it wasn't quite that bad but a change of underwear was required for those in the first few rows of seats that were hanging over the edge.

 

[RockinNRollin]

Many years ago I was on UK coach in the Italian Alps that tried to save an hour by not putting on snow chains on a decent because there was only a couple of miles before we get to below the snow line. We went through the Armco on the first corner. Think of the final scenes in the Italian job, it wasn't quite that bad but a change of underwear was required for those in the first few rows of seats that were hanging over the edge.

Surely that's just winter UK driving standards all over really, just transferred to another country . . .

 

[soulstyledevon]

I would say, have a go at fitting those chains.
Then imagine doing it, in driving snow and minus temperatures at the side of the road.
The £500 will seem like money well spent…

For a one time trip, CrossClimates make a huge difference. Worth leaving on all year.
The one time I almost got stuck up a mountain in Austria, was early summer on the standard tyres supplied by VW…

 

[Lambeth Cali]

I would say, have a go at fitting those chains.
Then imagine doing it, in driving snow and minus temperatures at the side of the road.
The £500 will seem like money well spent…

For a one time trip, CrossClimates make a huge difference. Worth leaving on all year.
The one time I almost got stuck up a mountain in Austria, was early summer on the standard tyres supplied by VW…

I wish it was £500!!

At least I can leave them on for another 7 years!

 

[soulstyledevon]

@Lambeth Cali

What about these…?
235/55/17 is 103

Goodyear Vector 4Seasons Gen-2 235/55 v 17 Tyres | Free Fitting | Tyre Shopper

Buy your Goodyear Vector 4Seasons Gen-2 235/55 v 17 Tyres with FREE local tyre fitting. Buy Online, Guaranteed Price Promise to be the cheapest online.

www.tyre-shopper.co.uk

 

[andyinluton]

I wish it was £500!!

At least I can leave them on for another 7 years!

You've confused me, the previous 2 sets of tyres you were looking at were 16" these are for 17"

Its also a bit of a funny size you've chosen, VW standard is 215/60 on a 17" rim. The size you've chosen is 8.1% smaller diameter so your speedo will over-read.

They have sidewall hight of only 101mm the standard size 215/60/17 have a sidewall 129mm high, even the vw standard low profiles on the 18" rims are 114mm.

I would predict the low profile combined with the high tyre pressure needed for a skinny tyre will result in a very hard ride & a good chance of knackering your rims on a pothole.

They will also look tiny in the wheel arches if that bothers you!

 

[WelshGas]

You've confused me, the previous 2 sets of tyres you were looking at were 16" these are for 17"

Its also a bit of a funny size you've chosen, VW standard is 215/60 on a 17" rim. The size you've chosen is 8.1% smaller diameter so your speedo will over-read.

They have sidewall hight of only 101mm the standard size 215/60/17 have a sidewall 129mm high, even the vw standard low profiles on the 18" rims are 114mm.

I would predict the low profile combined with the high tyre pressure needed for a skinny tyre will result in a very hard ride & a good chance of knackering your rims on a pothole.

They will also look tiny in the wheel arches if that bothers you!

I have a feeling @Lambeth Cali was not referring to the tyre size but the CrossClimate specifications as an all-round tyre.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

Yup what @WelshGas said. I’m 215/65 on a 16” wheel - a 2008 SE.

That was a tyre review site that tries to flog you tyres at the top of the webpage. Not my size.

I also had to get the same as my current tyres as I’ve already received the snow chains for 215/65 16”.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

You've confused me, the previous 2 sets of tyres you were looking at were 16" these are for 17"

Its also a bit of a funny size you've chosen, VW standard is 215/60 on a 17" rim. The size you've chosen is 8.1% smaller diameter so your speedo will over-read.

They have sidewall hight of only 101mm the standard size 215/60/17 have a sidewall 129mm high, even the vw standard low profiles on the 18" rims are 114mm.

I would predict the low profile combined with the high tyre pressure needed for a skinny tyre will result in a very hard ride & a good chance of knackering your rims on a pothole.

They will also look tiny in the wheel arches if that bothers you!

I was worried about getting something unsuitable but you pointed out the load rating which I hadn’t thought of, and hopefully I’m correct in thinking Agilas are van tyres

 

[Lambeth Cali]

@Lambeth Cali

What about these…?
235/55/17 is 103

Goodyear Vector 4Seasons Gen-2 235/55 v 17 Tyres | Free Fitting | Tyre Shopper

Buy your Goodyear Vector 4Seasons Gen-2 235/55 v 17 Tyres with FREE local tyre fitting. Buy Online, Guaranteed Price Promise to be the cheapest online.

www.tyre-shopper.co.uk

Already ordered the Agilas on Black Circles, ta. They were pricey but probably worth it. 215/65 16”.

Only had 2 sets of tyres in 16 years and 60,000 miles so hopefully will get another 8 yrs for my £720 (fitted)!

 

[andyinluton]

I was worried about getting something unsuitable but you pointed out the load rating which I hadn’t thought of, and hopefully I’m correct in thinking Agilas are van tyres

I think you've got the right ones, Of the 4 Michelin winter tyres that black circles do shown below 1st is ok , 2nd is designed for car & marginal on the load rating, 3rd is ok & 4th is too low load rating wise. 1 & 3 are Agilis

 

[Azteccamper]

Michelin own ATS. Often have offers

 

[Kernowboy]

Already ordered the Agilas on Black Circles, ta. They were pricey but probably worth it. 215/65 16”.

Only had 2 sets of tyres in 16 years and 60,000 miles so hopefully will get another 8 yrs for my £720 (fitted)!

Quality tyres.
ATS are owned by Michelin and often have the best prices for their tyres. You’ll pay £668 with them at the moment, and you’ll get a free Lego Bugatti model thrown in as well. Worth a look.
We drive down to the Alps 2 or 3 times a year in the Cali, and have done for a number of years as the kids have grown up. You’ll be fine with those tyres backed up by a pair of chains (not socks). The trip down and back is part of the fun, beats flying hands down. Lots of ways of getting down there depending on how much time you've got but if you are travelling at a busy time, ie. half term, then I would recommend getting as far down as you can before the Saturday. There are some great places to stay en route and I would recommend a night out in Annecy with the kids, or alternatively Chambery is a really easy stop over. PM me if you want some tips.

 

[Kernowboy]

Michelin own ATS. Often have offers

Spooky timing .

 

[Azteccamper]

Spooky timing .

And my surname is Curnow

 

[soulstyledevon]

I think you've got the right ones, Of the 4 Michelin winter tyres that black circles do shown below 1st is ok , 2nd is designed for car & marginal on the load rating, 3rd is ok & 4th is too low load rating wise. 1 & 3 are Agilis

View attachment 118264

Personally, I would’ve have chosen the 102s. More than enough load rating for a California.
I’m sure someone on here ran the Agilis and said they were a bit noisy.
Agilis are designed for fully loaded 3.5t panel vans.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

Michelin own ATS. Often have offers

I got very close to pressing ’buy’ on ATS website but there was small print saying ‘you may be offered alternative tyres at the dealership’ which made me think ’eh?’

I’ve used Black Circles before and it seemed that a specific set of tyres would be delivered to be fitted to your vehicle.

 

[Azteccamper]

I got very close to pressing ’buy’ on ATS website but there was small print saying ‘you may be offered alternative tyres at the dealership’ which made me think ’eh?’

Bit naughty that. Enjoy the trip - a proper adventure. I’m amazed how clear the roads are generally in the alps. Good luck and tell us all about it.