Snow socks or chains for emergency use?

[AlternativeKim]

Hi, We are travelling to Scotland in December and although there is not much snow around at the moment we realise this can change overnight. Is it worth keeping snow socks or chains in the van just for emergency use? Are they easy to fit and store? Thanks

 

[WelshGas]

Easy to store. You should practice fitting before you go and don't forget you will be fitting them in less than ideal conditions as it is illegal to use snow chains on roads not covered in snow and Snow Socks won't last 5 minutes on a tarmaced road.
Personally, if the weather got that bad I would park up, switch the Diesel heater on and make a cup of tea.
Winter or All Season tyres would be a better investment for winter travel in the UK.

 

[briwy]

Both are easy to store. Snow socks easier to fit generally than chains but the disadvantage is they are fairly delicate. If you run off snow onto a patch of tarmac they will shred very quickly. The more expensive chains are pretty easy to fit now (have a look at videos on uTube or the manufacturers sites) and are more effective than snowsocks and will last years.
One thing about the Cali is that there is plenty of room around the wheels to get the chains on. Practice is essential before you need them though. Easy once you get the hang of it.

 

[GrannyJen]

I personally refuse to go anywhere where snow is likely to accumulate without snow socks. For the space they take up they are a lifesaver when stuck and needing to get moving. If planning heavy duty ploughing then chains are worth investing in.

Not essential for everyone but as someone who has an awesome track record of getting stuck then I recommend.

 

[Ewan]

Where are you going in Scotland? Unless you're going on minor roads off the beaten track you should be ok. I've never owned snow socks or chains. I've just switched over to my winter tyres but that's more precautionary than essential

 

[reserves]

All Season tyres would be a better investment for winter travel in the UK.

I'm not sure if All Season Tyres are the same as M+S (Mud + Snow) tyres? If they are I don't have much confidence in them, we have them on our Cali (supplied from new) and they've slipped a few times on wet hills, let alone snow.

 

[WelshGas]

I'm not sure if All Season Tyres are the same as M+S (Mud + Snow) tyres? If they are I don't have much confidence in them, we have them on our Cali (supplied from new) and they've slipped a few times on wet hills, let alone snow.

Well, the ones I have just had fitted - Goodyear Cargo Vectra All- Seasons R17 103H - have the M&S symbol on them and come out in the top 3 for All Season tyres, by Independent assessors, and the only ones that do the required Load rating for the California readily available in the UK. Certainly not the cheapest but the best all round compromise.
The AA states that All Season Tyres with M&S rating are acceptable in place of Winter Tyres - as long as they are NOT Summer M&S tyres, and the Goodyear Tyres fulfil that requirement.
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/overseas/snow-chains-winter-tyres.html

Tyres first - then snow chains/snow socks.

 

[barry]

Well, the ones I have just had fitted - Goodyear Cargo Vectra All- Seasons R17 103H - have the M&S symbol on them and come out in the top 3 for All Season tyres, by Independent assessors, and the only ones that do the required Load rating for the California readily available in the UK. Certainly not the cheapest but the best all round compromise.
The AA states that All Season Tyres with M&S rating are acceptable in place of Winter Tyres - as long as they are NOT Summer M&S tyres, and the Goodyear Tyres fulfil that requirement.
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/overseas/snow-chains-winter-tyres.html

Tyres first - then snow chains/snow socks.

I've used sets of Cargo Vectors (I now II) since I bought the Cali and have found them excellent for wear and grip. They've been up to anything we've encountered in Scotland's winters and we use the vehicle a lot during the winter but rarely go off road (although many of the sites (organised and wild) begin to look like off road. We've never found the need for chains or socks - yet.
The main criticism of summer grade tyres in winter comes from the change in the rubber compound's properties (road holding and braking) but as this post points up, the change is minimal for Cargo Vectors. But NOT for many other tyres.

 

[SimonB]

This thread has prompted me to check what was fitted to our Cali as standard. They are Dunlop SP Sport Maxx which, upon checking, are listed as a summer tyre, with a few other interesting descriptions thrown in too. The "for high performance sports cars" puzzled me a bit. They have a low rolling resistance which fits in with the Blue Motion Technology, so I suppose that is why they are fitted.
As they have done under 1000 miles so far, I don't think I'll be changing them anytime soon.
Driving an automatic 3 tonne van in the snow is not as straightforward as my previous vehicle, a manual Mk 5 Golf. I am looking to get some chains as the snow & ice in N Wales can be too patchy for snow socks.
It's the going down the steep hills, under control, that I would like some advice about please.
Presumably using the manual change facility on the DSG is preferable.
When I came back from there 2 weeks ago I drove up a steep hill on an "A" road through 2" of slush and that was fine. Going down the other side could have been exciting, but it was in the lee of the wind and was just very wet.
Is there a thread on here that I can read through please?
Many thanks Simon

 

[WelshGas]

Sports mode on the DSG box provides additional engine braking as it changes down at higher revs than Drive Mode. Do a search for posts about the DSG - it is NOT to be confused with a normal Automatic Gearbox and Torque Converter.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-DSG-Game-and-Win-DSG-Driving-Tips-and-Tricks

 

[SimonB]

Sports mode on the DSG box provides additional engine braking as it changes down at higher revs than Drive Mode. Do a search for posts about the DSG - it is NOT to be confused with a normal Automatic Gearbox and Torque Converter.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-DSG-Game-and-Win-DSG-Driving-Tips-and-Tricks

Thank you for this, Welsh Gas. A very informative article with links to YouTube so I could watch the explanation as well.
With a manual gear box you would change to a low gear to go down a slippery hill, with a DSG using the Sport Mode does a similar thing allowing the engine to rev higher in each gear without changing.
I've bought some chains from the club shop this afternoon as I don't want to get caught out but it is very useful to understand the box a bit more as well.

 

[T6 CFO]

Sports mode on the DSG box provides additional engine braking as it changes down at higher revs than Drive Mode. Do a search for posts about the DSG - it is NOT to be confused with a normal Automatic Gearbox and Torque Converter.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-DSG-Game-and-Win-DSG-Driving-Tips-and-Tricks

Most definitely agree. Used the sports mode on my Touran in the Alps and recently on Hardknott Pass. Brilliant. Saves your brakes as well.

 

[julianjdj]

Having done quite a lot of winter driving in the Alps in various cars, first choice is a set of good high quality winter tyres. There have been some comparisons done with a 4 wheel drive vehicle with normal tyres and a 2 wheel (front) drive vehicle with winter tyres - the 2 wheel front drive with winter tyres is actually better! The uphill, normal driving and braking characteristics are all better.

Also having been stuck in a blizzard on a hill in a 4 wheel drive with M&S tyres on, I think the additional cost/ hassle of a set off chains far outweighs the problems you'll get otherwise.

You should practice putting chains on and taking them off before you need to use them.

In my view: Winter tyres - essential. Chains - sensible insurance.

 

[Bert1969]

4motion and winter tyres takes you everywear, without 4motion almost everywear - winter tyres ofcourse a must!

 

[SimonB]

Having done quite a lot of winter driving in the Alps in various cars, first choice is a set of good high quality winter tyres. There have been some comparisons done with a 4 wheel drive vehicle with normal tyres and a 2 wheel (front) drive vehicle with winter tyres - the 2 wheel front drive with winter tyres is actually better! The uphill, normal driving and braking characteristics are all better.

Also having been stuck in a blizzard on a hill in a 4 wheel drive with M&S tyres on, I think the additional cost/ hassle of a set off chains far outweighs the problems you'll get otherwise.

You should practice putting chains on and taking them off before you need to use them.

In my view: Winter tyres - essential. Chains - sensible insurance.

Thank you all of you for the advice. There was a mention of a 2 wheel drive car with winter tyres being better than a 4x4 with summer tyres. I found this YouTube clip which I thought might be of interest.

Certainly shows the importance of the right tyres. At the end they put 4 winter tyres on the 4x4 and then it goes right to the top of the snow covered ramp.

 

[reserves]

Mine are 'Goodyear Vector 4Seasons'

Not sure if these are the same as Cargo Vectors mention above? I'll see how they go this winter

 

[Tomatoman65]

My choice for 4 season tyres would be Nokian WeatherProof 235/55R17 103 V XL. Hard to find but available online if you look around. Beat the Goodyear Vectors in a recent German test and said to be no different in snow performance than dedicated winter tyres and handle well in summer too with reasonable fuel economy.

I have the Pewag SUV Snox in addition. They are dead easy to fit in under 2 minutes for both front wheels on our 4 Motion. VW don't recommend rear even with 4WD. They are self centering and self tightening and have rubber bumpers to protect your alloy rims.] They come in a brilliant padded bag with gloves thrown in and sell for £109 per pair including shipping from Tyreleader based in Germany.

 

[WelshGas]

Mine are 'Goodyear Vector 4Seasons'

Not sure if these are the same as Cargo Vectors mention above? I'll see how they go this winter

They are.

 

[briwy]

General purpose tyres are a good compromise but for all seasons but I still think full winter spec are better if you are contemplating going anywhere with serious snow.
Have a look at this thread. The Bongo was on Goodyear Vectors and clearly slides around a bit whilst the we filming from the Cali on Vredenstein winters were rock solid. We actually stopped and started off again without a problem on the steepest part of the climb as the Bongo started to struggle and I was wary of it sliding back.
Bit extreme I know but does illustrate the difference.

http://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/hindsight.9334/#post-85983

 

[T6 CFO]

Having been over there in the summer I recall seeing a sign saying "Closed in the winter" or similar. I presume you didn't see the sign as it was buried in snow
Excellent video and confirms my choice of a 4 Motion. Also was getting a bit paranoid about lack of all weather tyre option but this also confirms that I will go the specialist winter tyre route when and if I require them.


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[WelshGas]

General purpose tyres are a good compromise but for all seasons but I still think full winter spec are better if you are contemplating going anywhere with serious snow.
Have a look at this thread. The Bongo was on Goodyear Vectors and clearly slides around a bit whilst the we filming from the Cali on Vredenstein winters were rock solid. We actually stopped and started off again without a problem on the steepest part of the climb as the Bongo started to struggle and I was wary of it sliding back.
Bit extreme I know but does illustrate the difference.

http://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/hindsight.9334/#post-85983

If I was going to the Alps or Scandinavia, although my tyres are legally accepted in those countries I would be changing to Winter tyres, but in the UK, when I am unlikely to be visiting the Highlands and more likely travelling on main roads I think proper 4 Season M&S tyres are more than upto the job.

 

[Looby]

My choice for 4 season tyres would be Nokian WeatherProof 235/55R17 103 V XL. Hard to find but available online if you look around. Beat the Goodyear Vectors in a recent German test and said to be no different in snow performance than dedicated winter tyres and handle well in summer too with reasonable fuel economy.

While these do seem to be a good alternative, it is worth noting that they are a directional tyre as this affects which way round you choose to have it fitted on the spare and in event of a flat tyre, using it in the opposite direction in an emergency is another topic which brings up lots of opinions.