So, bye bye fossil fuel cars - it was great while it lasted.

[WelshGas]

Problems problems problems. They can all be solved. Electricity can be produced in a green manner, fossil fuels cannot be burnt in a green manner (yes - I know about carbon capture - not persuaded)

Dealing with the toxic materials in batteries will be the biggest 'green' challenge. But if they are designed to be recycled from the outset anything is possible.

Everyone can do their bit by going green now. - https://bulb.co.uk/ - other green energy producers are available.

We can't even electrify our main railway lines NOW, instead they plan on using Hybrids.
I have no problem changing to a Hybrid, but ALL Electric?
It's easy to make a statement, but the infrastructure required has to be paid for AND has to be installed. Somehow we have to pay for this and there will be a cost so watch out for the new taxes coming our way.

Now if we had 4 or 5 Nuclear power stations to produce Hydrogen then fuel cells would allow a "green transport " system without the horrors of electrification.

A question - How many Electric Charging points will be needed at your local Motorway Services? How much power will be required? How will you get the power there?

I know of a street of 100 terraced houses. Not cheap ones as a desirable area. Most families have 2 cars. So how many charging points, and how do you get the power there in a central city location?

Hybrid or Fuel Cell. All electric is a Dead Duck.

 

[DM]

Hybrid or Fuel Cell. All electric is a Dead Duck.

23 years is a long time. Meet back here then and we'll let hindsight tell us who was right

 

[Steve39]

Well something's got to be done and I really want to be optimistic about this. 23 years is the span of my adult life and in some respects the pace of change floors me every time I think about it. Computing - yes. Cars - not so much. Ok it's not 23 years but 1997 saw the first Prius and the GM EV1. Have we really come that far since then? 20 years to triple the range and get a relative handful of charging points.

Hopefully we can pick up the pace.

 

[EddieEagle]

Is there something I am missing here? Where does the electricity come from??
I'm still stuck in the "Nuclear Power, No Thanks". mind set.
We bemoan emissions from our vehicles but the uptake of the Smart Car, for example, is nothing compared to our love of bigger X5 and Q6 Discovery Range Rovers etc. (Californias don't count as they double as mobile tea urns,)
What about shipping and never mind the aviation industry. Warfare? That doesn't count.
Right off topic and curved ball incoming.......the retirement age has gone up, yet now research has found we are going to live less?
Will the age of google drive, virtual reality with it's possibilities, working from home, I think I mean, and drones etc. mean society will not actually be driving as much in any case?
I reckon the future will find the vehicle emissions issue nothing as compared to the wretched inequality and social injustice which has polarised society to the point where shredded wheat as head wear is now in vogue.
To (try to) be positive, what an opportunity for us, or did the oceans already fill with plastic and did the ice cap already drown Bangladesh and if our bloody politicians would stop short term gambling.....
rhymes with rambling......ah, that's an answer, rambling, boots, stick, self flagellation!!

What was the question, again??

 

[Aidy P]

Marty: Whoa, wait a minute, what are you doing, Doc?

Doc Brown: I need fuel. Quick. Go ahead, quick. Get in the car!

 

[knightons]

23 years is a long time. Meet back here then and we'll let hindsight tell us who was right

I'm still waiting for my hoverboard

 

[Martin/gen]

Welcome a new power station/solar field/wind farm coming to a neighbourhood near you!

 

[Borris]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40723581

Plenty will still be around in our lifetimes but this is a pretty significant announcement for the history of the motor car.

Just glad to have had the enjoyment of a good old internal combustion engine in so many ways over the years.

Words are cheap. The implementation of this hasty knee jerk announcement is an entirely different matter. I look forward to seeing great strides in the development of these new technologies but I doubt if pure battery/electric will turn out to be any more than a developmental cul de sac. I am very interested in the future of hybrid technology as the way forward however I am not yet convinced that the future of the pure diesel at least, is coming to an end. EU 6 diesels are currrently very clean and development of further emmisions control measures to make them much cleaner still will continue. Where will that be in twenty three years time?
Rather than purely looking at road vehicles as the source of the current polution levels, the Government should seriously look at where else the polution is coming from and take action. They could start by taking a long hard look at the polution that is constantly being crop dusted onto our cities from low flying heavy jet aircraft. I am sure that they have already done this but have concluded that it's easier and more conveinient to go after the motor vehicle instead but mainly the private motor vehicle.

 

[soulstyledevon]

23 years is a long time. Meet back here then and we'll let hindsight tell us who was right

That is a great idea.
Would be amazing to discuss how much things will have changed.
Where I work, Warwick Manufacturing Group are currently building a £150m research building into battery technology along with other facilities they have already built. It's been happening and coming for quite some time. The car manufacturers are well on board.

It has been said today the ban will not exclude petrol/diesel completely. However it must be of hybrid technology.
Can't say I'm to worried. If money was no object, I would have a Maclaren P1 sitting on the drive. So I guess the manufacturers could be working on some pretty interesting vehicles.

Perhaps we will see a 400bhp campervan with solar charging both leisure and drive battery trains.

It's gonna be interesting to see what next developments will be, perhaps wireless charging or something like a giant Scalectric set. Who knows. All I know is, lets embrace the change and fingers crossed this country can get in first with world changing technologies

 

[hirsty]

EU6 diesels are not "very clean" and never can be. Burning fossil fuels in small inefficient engines in the streets where we all live is finished - yesterday was the confirmation with a date on it.

The delay out to 2040 is to reflect the enormous size of the challenge, in part down to the poor planning decisions made over previous decades that allowed this unsustainable situation to develop in the first place.

Aviation are under the cosh too & will also go electric in the foreseeable.

 

[WelshGas]

EU6 diesels are not "very clean" and never can be. Burning fossil fuels in small inefficient engines in the streets where we all live is finished - yesterday was the confirmation with a date on it.

The delay out to 2040 is to reflect the enormous size of the challenge, in part down to the poor planning decisions made over previous decades that allowed this unsustainable situation to develop in the first place.

Aviation are under the cosh too & will also go electric in the foreseeable.

Yesterdays announcement meant nothing. Doesn't matter what the Government, any Government says.
Any change will be lead by the Car Manufacturer. They can make what they like but if people cannot use them as they want then they won't sell. Pure Electric cars will be used as town cars but people are use to travelling so the vehicles they buy must be capable of doing that, as and when they want.

With my cynics hat on.
Why are People complaining about the raising of the Pension Age as we live longer?
If we had more Diesels then we could reduce the population and avoid the need to raise the Pension Age?

We stopped burning coal in our cities because of the Smog which was killing people.
We were encouraged to buy Diesel because of the CO2 and global warning and climate change killing people.
Now we must stop buying Diesel because of the NO produced killing people.
Give it a few years and we will have to stop buying Electric cars because ???????? something is killing people.

Just accept that nothing is perfect and any risks just have to be managed.

 

[Annik]

Looks like us as diesel vehicle owners will be the ones footing the bill for all this

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...nationwide-tax-rises-help-fund-air-pollution/

I suspect the days of bullet proof residuals on the Cali will start to disappear soon.

 

[Lewis]

Looks like us as diesel vehicle owners will be the ones footing the bill for all this

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...nationwide-tax-rises-help-fund-air-pollution/

I suspect the days of bullet proof residuals on the Cali will start to disappear soon.

I don't have a subscription so can't read the full article but from the first part I got the impression that it's 'new' owners that would be affected. That would continue the trend in recent years of bringing in changes gradually that only affect new purchases. Here's to hoping. I'm on board with the broad thrust of announced plans but I think they should always be focused on new purchases so consumers are fully aware of what they are letting themselves in for and don't get a nasty retrospective shock.

 

[soulstyledevon]

I see Volkswagen announced they will be producing the Micro-bus and it will be all electric.

 

[Digger]

Stuff the doom and gloom journalists and politicians. I am going to enjoy the California as it was intended and make the most of the next 20 or so years happy.

 

[Jay586]

Think I'm with this ^^. There is no other vehicle on the road atm that meets my current needs. That may change but I'm dead grateful I managed to get my van sorted this year.

Interestingly, I worked for my MP in the holidays when I was a student and he got me to investigate diesel fine particle emissions and this stuff was all known then, 25 years ago. The most sensible input I've heard on the radio is that for longer journeys, diesel is better due to economy and CO2, it's the small journeys (and of course the idlers) that really cause air issues, due to the higher NOX emissions.

 

[Jez]

Just wondering what the Oil Companies/States are thinking, are they going to just let this happen? When I was a kid in the early 80s loving cars and gadgets I never dreamed they would turn out so brilliant, from my zx spectrum and my Talbot Alpine to my Galaxy S8 and my California/Wife's Q5. Long way to go and the internet has made everything faster and the collective mind of the generation behind us may turn out ok. I for one do not mis trying to start a car with a choke and enjoy talking to my family via my phone in my car as the heated leather seats..........

 

[Joker 1299]

What are the thoughts on a fully electric camper? How would the leisure batteries cope? Presume we would need some advances in both battery technology and solar recharging. Would camp sites need to have vehicle charging points as well as e-hook-up?

 

[Rich20]

At the moment it is all headlines and sound bites. Change will happen but to what is all speculation. Batteries have their issues and, as previously mentioned, the infrastructure upgrades will be massive. Personally I don't think the 2040 deadline will happen based on previous track records where governments miss their targets. IMO what we can expect though is tax hikes as this is what governments do when they need to raise money or change people's behaviour. Best for me would for the Diesel engine industry to develop "bolt on" emission controls that could be added to my Cali to make it cleaner whilst techy companies work on developing sustainable alternatives for the future.

 

[hirsty]

Nobody ever read a position on a topic contrary to theirs on the internet and said "oh yeah, I guess I had that all wrong then - thanks" but this thread seems a good microcosm of the glass half-full issues that seem to hold us back as a nation. In France their announcement (as with their high-speed rail network etc) is a matter of national civic pride, whilst here it descends into endless inquiries, hearings & special-interest lobbying until Paul Dacre eventually decides on all our behalf.

Steve Jobs famously said he didn't believe in focus groups as people don't know what they want until you show it to them. This isn't about a relatively minor swap out of engine types & then we all carry on as before - the ownership model will change beyond what we can recognise today, the way transport and 'motoring' are financed will be completely different.

The rows of terraced houses referred to above were built before there were any cars at all. Gas street lighting was replaced by electricity, mains water / sewerage / electricity / gas / telephone / broadband have all been added since. Huge global telecoms infrastructure emerged almost overnight, these things are not beyond our wit. However there won't be two cars per house sat outside charging as replacements.

Current cars are only used 5% of the time & there is still nowhere to park & the roads (and trains) are still jammed. 80% of new UK cars are now financed on PCP contracts & the Bank Of England has just asked the leasing companies to analyse the impact of an additional 10% fall in used car prices - perhaps inevitable due to over-supply & increasing interest rates.

The revolutions in battery technology, mobile technology, manufacturing technology & rapidly changing demographics will drive demand. Legislation will enforce it & setting a date gives everyone a chance to get ready & to start to adapt their thinking. Don't worry about your current Cali, or likely the next, but soon after that things will start to look quite different quite quickly & (I think) much for the better.

 

[WelshGas]

Nobody ever read a position on a topic contrary to theirs on the internet and said "oh yeah, I guess I had that all wrong then - thanks" but this thread seems a good microcosm of the glass half-full issues that seem to hold us back as a nation. In France their announcement (as with their high-speed rail network etc) is a matter of national civic pride, whilst here it descends into endless inquiries, hearings & special-interest lobbying until Paul Dacre eventually decides on all our behalf.

Steve Jobs famously said he didn't believe in focus groups as people don't know what they want until you show it to them. This isn't about a relatively minor swap out of engine types & then we all carry on as before - the ownership model will change beyond what we can recognise today, the way transport and 'motoring' are financed will be completely different.

The rows of terraced houses referred to above were built before there were any cars at all. Gas street lighting was replaced by electricity, mains water / sewerage / electricity / gas / telephone / broadband have all been added since. Huge global telecoms infrastructure emerged almost overnight, these things are not beyond our wit. However there won't be two cars per house sat outside charging as replacements.

Current cars are only used 5% of the time & there is still nowhere to park & the roads (and trains) are still jammed. 80% of new UK cars are now financed on PCP contracts & the Bank Of England has just asked the leasing companies to analyse the impact of an additional 10% fall in used car prices - perhaps inevitable due to over-supply & increasing interest rates.

The revolutions in battery technology, mobile technology, manufacturing technology & rapidly changing demographics will drive demand. Legislation will enforce it & setting a date gives everyone a chance to get ready & to start to adapt their thinking. Don't worry about your current Cali, or likely the next, but soon after that things will start to look quite different quite quickly & (I think) much for the better.

I wouldn't bother holding the French up as a comparison. Not when the French farmers realise what it will mean for them. The French do what they want not what they are told.
Yes, modern utilities were added to our cities over many years, and there wasn't a 23 year time limit.
How long has Hinkley Point C been in the planning and building stage and not due to be on-line for some years and that will just cover the closure of some older power stations, no significant changes to National Grid capacity.
Many families, with both working will still require 2 vehicles because the transport infra structure is diabolical outside major cities. 20 years is just not long enough for all the socioeconomic changes required for All Electric vehicles.
Hybrid or Fuel cell is the only way forward.
Wind and Solar can then be concentrating on producing Hydrogen night and day without the peaks and troughs associated with All Electric vehicles.
All Electric can then be relegated to intra-city travel only.

Like to see everyone travelling the Scottish 500 Tourist Route doing it in All Electric vehicles.

 

[johnyboy]

You wouldn't need leisure batteries - you'd be sleeping on 100x the power you have now, you don't NEED special chargers, even today an overnight charge from a 3 pin should be ok, that is before the technology advances.

To quote one journalist "23 years ago I had no mobile phone, no email address, and worked in an office full of smokers. A lot more than EVs will arrive by 2040."

 

[jessecampervan]

I have a crystal ball in my office and it’s the best piece of technology that I have ever owned. It reminds me that the future is unknown and that evolution has been with us for many years, albeit nudged along by those setting policies in some instances.

What we can do is enjoy each day to the full and be faithful to the planet by leaving it in a better state than we found it. So that’s not just the combustion engine, but, many other just as important issues that each of us should take ownership of.

My spare time will be spent enjoying my soon to become relic (like me). I’m not interested in resale values, as what price do you put on the fun you’ve enjoyed during ownership.

Peace and love (especially in a camper ;o)

 

[El Greco]

2040? Will I be alive and in what state of health? I certainly won't have a Cali then and resale value? Who will still have their current vehicles in 20 odd years time? I will not extrapolate either my health or technology some 2 decades. The government policy is a pointer and will be influenced by many factors including technology and politics. We have Brexit to survive first

Just enjoy the freedom and opportunities that we have now and we can react to these changes just like we have to many other changes in our lifetime.

I love the discussion though

 

[briwy]

23 years is a long time. Meet back here then and we'll let hindsight tell us who was right

Twenty three years is not a long time given the ammount of infrastructure that needs to be installed. Most of the existing wind farms will be knackered by then if not before and as yet there is no more news re what power stations will be built to cater for the demand. It needs to be starting now, not in ten years time.
Hope it all works out but got serious doubts.