solar panel (removable) on T5 facelift (waiting roof rot work)

[WelshGas]

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but have you read this thread and viewed the pictures?

 

[Peter Scott]

Hi,
I've read the thread but my van is different to a Cali. Firstly I do not have any roof bars on my van so the solar panel would be glued directly to the roof. Also I can only see one method of routing the cable through the tailgate using the rubber cable guide. Finally the inside of my van is carpet-lined on the sides & roof, si I'm not able to remove panels as you can on a Cali.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks

 

[WelshGas]

Ok. On most conversions the owners have drilled a hole in the roof to get the cable from the solar panel inside the vehicle.
Your problem seems to be less about getting the cable into the vehicle as to getting it to the leisure battery.
Firstly, where is your leisure battery? Under a front seat?
If you do not want to drill any holes then you could consider the following.
Fit panel to roof.
Run cable forward along roof, using adhesive plastic cable clips to near side A pillar.
Run cable down A pillar alongside windscreen, I would suggest using clips and/or cable that suits your vehicle colour, and into engine bay near the near side bonnet hinge.
Solar Panel controller could be located next to engine battery.
Cable from controller can then be passed into the passenger compartment via one of the cable runs through the engine bay firewall.
Cable will now be somewhere under dashboard and can be routed to your leisure battery under the cockpit carpet.

If the leisure battery is in the rear then cable normally goes by the tailgate hinge and then over the tailgate seal. I ran mine via the corrugated cable cover as some people had reported water getting in. But you could run the cable past the hinge then down the side of the tailgate opening to the area of the light cluster and have a small downward hanging loop and then across the tailgate rubber seal into the vehicle .

I'm afraid that's the best I can do on the limited information you have given.

 

[Peter Scott]

Ok. On most conversions the owners have drilled a hole in the roof to get the cable from the solar panel inside the vehicle.
Your problem seems to be less about getting the cable into the vehicle as to getting it to the leisure battery.
Firstly, where is your leisure battery? Under a front seat?
If you do not want to drill any holes then you could consider the following.
Fit panel to roof.
Run cable forward along roof, using adhesive plastic cable clips to near side A pillar.
Run cable down A pillar alongside windscreen, I would suggest using clips and/or cable that suits your vehicle colour, and into engine bay near the near side bonnet hinge.
Solar Panel controller could be located next to engine battery.
Cable from controller can then be passed into the passenger compartment via one of the cable runs through the engine bay firewall.
Cable will now be somewhere under dashboard and can be routed to your leisure battery under the cockpit carpet.

If the leisure battery is in the rear then cable normally goes by the tailgate hinge and then over the tailgate seal. I ran mine via the corrugated cable cover as some people had reported water getting in. But you could run the cable past the hinge then down the side of the tailgate opening to the area of the light cluster and have a small downward hanging loop and then across the tailgate rubber seal into the vehicle .

I'm afraid that's the best I can do on the limited information you have given.

Thanks for your help & advice.
I'll have a look at my van and your suggestions

 

[Andy]

I didn't see WelshGas's reply. Doh

 

[Roger Donoghue]

With regular aftermarket pop tops on VWs here is what I do:

I drill a 6mm hole in the pop top as far back as I can go - right where the tent ends. In the centre, but offset the with of the black unit on the panel that the cable comes out of, as it's not central. I drill from the inside out as I can then get very close to the tent, for a neat cable run.

Once the cable is in, I typically drill an 8mm hole in the rear offside corner from the tented area to "downstairs" to get the cable down. Usually this means the cable will dissapear into a cabinet. If often drill upwards for this as there is not always room upstaairs for a long drill bit.

 

[top3b]

Sorry guys,

I like very much the removable system, but nobody thought that a similar removable solution can be stolen by thieves?
We should think about something like locked bolt or similar.
I have a Cali Beach 2015, I would like to install a polycrystalline 240W panel (with the lowest possible height) , MPPT and the box needed to recharge the leisure battery, do you have something suitable for me in your store?
Or someone knows where can it be sell?
Thank you everybody.
Regards

 

[Roger Donoghue]

Hi - in my experience so far - not one panel has been stolen - that's a lot of Mazda Bongos with them bolted on, and a fair few VW's. Certainly no one has contacted me asking for a replacement. I will look at key locking bolts but it would increase the cost of course.

I can't really answer "store" questions as I'm not an advertiser on here. You can take a look on my site.

For a panel of 240w you'd be looking at sticking on 2 x 120 w panels (as I've done before). This obviously isn't a bolt on solution but a permanent one.

 

[top3b]

Permanent ok, using a special glue, but can i pass the cables without drilling the roof or something else?
Is the efficiency the same of having just only one panel instead of two?

 

[Roger Donoghue]

You do really need to drill a hole. It's only a 6mm hole (two of them) - or it will look a mess, and you'd have two cables to deal with. Drilling a hole is not the big deal it sounds. It can easily be plugged with waterproof filler if needed. If you are sticking panels on the roof with adhesive you've already written off the paintwork underneath the panels so two small holes really doesn't make any difference (and they don't leak!).

Running two panels is no less efficient than running one. You either wire them in parallel (both + and - cables joined together) to make a 240w (2x120w) 20v panel (they are not really 12v panels - they need to be more to allow for voltage drop when hot). You'd get around 12 amps max at 20ish volts (one panel is around 6amps at 20 volts).

Or, you wire them in series (you join the + of one panel to the - of the other and then use the remaining + and - as your main power). This gives you a 120w 40v panel (double the voltage). You get the same real power - the MPPT charger converts the 40volts down to something more usable and turns the extra voltage into lovely amps). There is an advantage to this - higher voltage is more efficient over long cable runs. You can use thinner cable for the same loss, or the same cable for less loss. Though... the cable runs in a camper to the charger are usually around a few metres max and the gain is not enough to get excited about.

I tend to wire in parallel as then if one of the panels were to have a problem, at least it wouldn't drag the other down, which would happen in a series configuration.

 

[top3b]

You do really need to drill a hole. It's only a 6mm hole (two of them) - or it will look a mess, and you'd have two cables to deal with. Drilling a hole is not the big deal it sounds. It can easily be plugged with waterproof filler if needed. If you are sticking panels on the roof with adhesive you've already written off the paintwork underneath the panels so two small holes really doesn't make any difference (and they don't leak!).

Running two panels is no less efficient than running one. You either wire them in parallel (both + and - cables joined together) to make a 240w (2x120w) 20v panel (they are not really 12v panels - they need to be more to allow for voltage drop when hot). You'd get around 12 amps max at 20ish volts (one panel is around 6amps at 20 volts).

Or, you wire them in series (you join the + of one panel to the - of the other and then use the remaining + and - as your main power). This gives you a 120w 40v panel (double the voltage). You get the same real power - the MPPT charger converts the 40volts down to something more usable and turns the extra voltage into lovely amps). There is an advantage to this - higher voltage is more efficient over long cable runs. You can use thinner cable for the same loss, or the same cable for less loss. Though... the cable runs in a camper to the charger are usually around a few metres max and the gain is not enough to get excited about.

I tend to wire in parallel as then if one of the panels were to have a problem, at least it wouldn't drag the other down, which would happen in a series configuration.

How big are the two panels together?
Can they fit in the area between the two rails?

 

[top3b]

You do really need to drill a hole. It's only a 6mm hole (two of them) - or it will look a mess, and you'd have two cables to deal with. Drilling a hole is not the big deal it sounds. It can easily be plugged with waterproof filler if needed. If you are sticking panels on the roof with adhesive you've already written off the paintwork underneath the panels so two small holes really doesn't make any difference (and they don't leak!).

Running two panels is no less efficient than running one. You either wire them in parallel (both + and - cables joined together) to make a 240w (2x120w) 20v panel (they are not really 12v panels - they need to be more to allow for voltage drop when hot). You'd get around 12 amps max at 20ish volts (one panel is around 6amps at 20 volts).

Or, you wire them in series (you join the + of one panel to the - of the other and then use the remaining + and - as your main power). This gives you a 120w 40v panel (double the voltage). You get the same real power - the MPPT charger converts the 40volts down to something more usable and turns the extra voltage into lovely amps). There is an advantage to this - higher voltage is more efficient over long cable runs. You can use thinner cable for the same loss, or the same cable for less loss. Though... the cable runs in a camper to the charger are usually around a few metres max and the gain is not enough to get excited about.

I tend to wire in parallel as then if one of the panels were to have a problem, at least it wouldn't drag the other down, which would happen in a series configuration.

How big are the two panels together?
Can they fit in the area between the two rails?
Are they flexible?

 

[Andy]

op3b

You can mount framed solar panels on an aluminium angle frame that bolts to the roof tracks, the same as Rogers kits do.

Framed panels are MUCH heavier than the flexible ones in Roger s kits. Typically 12 kg for a 120 watt & 19 kg for a 240 watt. The flexible ones are about 3 kg. Whatever weight you add to the roof decreases the available weight to carry camping stuff.
Roof max weight is, I believe 50 Kg

I have a 100 watt flexible panel on a frame, similar to Rogers kit on my cali roof. I have not drilled the cable through the roof. I have routed it through the tailgate wiper wire rubber boot. Yes I do have a loop of cable that sticks up & is very visible, but that is a price I'm willing to pay.
I have a second panel & in spring when weather warms up I plan to bond both directly to the roof & maybe then drill cables through the roof.

 

[Andy]

How big are the two panels together?
Can they fit in the area between the two rails?
Are they flexible?

Have a look around the web, there are a lot of framed panels to chose from.

Have a look here to give you an idea of what is available. I have bought from both.
http://midsummerenergy.co.uk/
http://www.bimblesolar.com/

 

[Roger Donoghue]

Hi - this is two 120w panels I installed recently. I've installed the same panels in a Cali and they fit between the rails easily.

 

[top3b]

op3b

You can mount framed solar panels on an aluminium angle frame that bolts to the roof tracks, the same as Rogers kits do.

Framed panels are MUCH heavier than the flexible ones in Roger s kits. Typically 12 kg for a 120 watt & 19 kg for a 240 watt. The flexible ones are about 3 kg. Whatever weight you add to the roof decreases the available weight to carry camping stuff.
Roof max weight is, I believe 50 Kg

I have a 100 watt flexible panel on a frame, similar to Rogers kit on my cali roof. I have not drilled the cable through the roof. I have routed it through the tailgate wiper wire rubber boot. Yes I do have a loop of cable that sticks up & is very visible, but that is a price I'm willing to pay.
I have a second panel & in spring when weather warms up I plan to bond both directly to the roof & maybe then drill cables through the roof.

Can you post some pictures of your whole system?
Thank you

 

[top3b]

Hi - this is two 120w panels I installed recently. I've installed the same panels in a Cali and they fit between the rails easily.

Here where is the cable to the cabin?
Where did you drill the roof?
Thank you Roger.
Regards

top3b

 

[benArrayx]

Hi Roger, is your system compatible with the T6? I don't know if the roof bar measurements have any difference from the T5...

 

[SimonB]

£400 is a hell of a lot for a 100w panel.
Got mine about two years ago and cost £150 then and now around £120 ish. Had it on the old van and now the new one without any problems at all.
It's also worth paying the extra for a genuine MPPT controller. These are at least £50, a lot of cheap ones are advertised as MPPT but aren't.
Our panel the van topped up around 80-90% from a Thursday to Monday morning recently at Le Mans. Fridge and interior/external lights.
Definitely worth it IMO.

Just been rereading all the stuff I'd saved on the Solar Panel idea for the Cali from last year.
The advice to make the leisure batteries last longer was to plug the van onto an ECU once a month or use a solar system. I've managed to use an ECU once a month that since we've had the Cali, but it will get more difficult in future. Hopefully this rain will stop soon and we will be able to use the Cali for it's real designed purpose. Solar charging would enable us to be a lot more flexible.
I'd like to know more about the systems that are available from people that actually have used them. We are going to the April meet at the Lower Lode Inn, are you likely to be calling in or staying? Would you be prepared to explain how it works? Best wishes Simon

 

[Roger Donoghue]

Hi Roger, is your system compatible with the T6? I don't know if the roof bar measurements have any difference from the T5...

Sorry, I'm not on here often so I miss replies.

If the roof slots are the same then yes, but I need some accurate measurements to be sure.

 

[Roger Donoghue]

Here where is the cable to the cabin?
Where did you drill the roof?
Thank you Roger.
Regards

top3b

Each job is different, but appraoched the same.

I lay the panels out on the roof and check they fit etc. Then I slide them back so the cable/s will be as close to the back of the tented area of the roof as possible - still just inside the tented area. I then mark the roof where the cable/s exit the panel.

Then I go inside, right to the back of the tent, and measure to get the right place, and then drill upwards (with a small pilot hole). Then I go on top and drill downwards. This ensures the hole is as close to the back of the tent as possible. This makes for a neat cable drop.

Then, to get the cable into the "downstairs" I drill an 8mm hole straight through the inner roof. Usually in the rear drivers side of the tented area. Right at the back. This usually means the cable will drop down above, or in, a kitchen cupboard. The trick here is being able to get your drill upright in a very tight space. I often drill at an angle. I also have extra long 8mm drill bits. This part is the "tricky" part really. You need to get it right every time, and not drill though cables etc (though there are rarely cables in the inner roof void sides)

 

[Andy]

Just been rereading all the stuff I'd saved on the Solar Panel idea for the Cali from last year.
The advice to make the leisure batteries last longer was to plug the van onto an ECU once a month or use a solar system. I've managed to use an ECU once a month that since we've had the Cali, but it will get more difficult in future. Hopefully this rain will stop soon and we will be able to use the Cali for it's real designed purpose. Solar charging would enable us to be a lot more flexible.
I'd like to know more about the systems that are available from people that actually have used them. We are going to the April meet at the Lower Lode Inn, are you likely to be calling in or staying? Would you be prepared to explain how it works? Best wishes Simon

Simon I will be at the April meet. I have 1 100 watt panel mounted on a frame that locates in the roof bar slots. May even have two bonded to the roof by then. I will gladly show / explain it to you. Not much to it really.
You wire the panels in to a controller that is in turn wired to the rear leisure battery. This controls what goes in to the batteries & stops them from over charging. The batteries will still charge from the alternator when driving, the two work in harmony.

 

[briwy]

Just been rereading all the stuff I'd saved on the Solar Panel idea for the Cali from last year.
The advice to make the leisure batteries last longer was to plug the van onto an ECU once a month or use a solar system. I've managed to use an ECU once a month that since we've had the Cali, but it will get more difficult in future. Hopefully this rain will stop soon and we will be able to use the Cali for it's real designed purpose. Solar charging would enable us to be a lot more flexible.
I'd like to know more about the systems that are available from people that actually have used them. We are going to the April meet at the Lower Lode Inn, are you likely to be calling in or staying? Would you be prepared to explain how it works? Best wishes Simon

Yes, we will be at the April meeting so you can have a look at our setup and a chat then.

 

[SimonB]

Many thanks briwy & Andy. We shall look forward to meeting you in April.
We are hoping to be able to go to places for a break and not feel tied to getting an EHU every so often to make sure it's all fully charged. Simon

 

[BerndRos]

A....Q...before I order one of Rogers kits.

Can actual users of the kit comment on whether in actual use in the UK that the 100w panel produces enough power to keep the fridge on all the time and on what setting ?.....plus usage of lights in the evening.

Thanks