Still wondering if you should buy? Do you know what's coming?

[Rhyddin]

This forum is a great way to research Calis for current owners and prospective owners but I just wanted to ensure those people hanging fire have their eyes open about the road tax (VED) changes coming in April 2017, because I've only just had a proper look at the changes and what they mean.

I think there's been some explanation but not enough just yet, especially when you're talking about expensive, fairly high emission vehicles such as the Cali.

For example, if you were to buy a 204PS Ocean DSG 4 motion today, the road tax will be as follows:
Year 1: £350, followed by £225 per year from then on.

However, if you bought the same vehicle after April 2017 (which will come around quite quickly when you hear about all these delays), it will cost you the following:
Year 1: £1,110 in Year 1, followed by £450 for the next 4 years and then £140 a year from then on.

That's £2,910 over 5 years compared to £1,250!!! In fact, you would have to keep the vehicle for exactly 25 years before the new tax system starts costing you less, cumulatively!

Don't worry, nothing changes for vehicles already registered before this date but it is definitely worth being aware, especially if you're in the market for a Cali, as the only two models (currently) below the all important £40k value threshold (see the article link, below) are the 102PS Beach with hardly any extras and the 150PS Manual Beach with absolutely no extras, including metallic paint!

So if you're in doubt and hanging on, I hope you're saving up as you do so!

Finally, let's not kid ourselves that the dealers won't be acutely aware of this too, as we get closer to April 2017, because they know you will want to buy - and quickly!

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-ne...verything-you-need-to-know-about-uk-road-tax#

 

[Hotel California]

Don't know anything about the UK tax system.
But is this tread not about the same issue?
http://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/vehicle-excise-duty-changes-april-2017.12946/#post-130736

 

[Rhyddin]

Good point! I did search for VED before I posted but missed that one. I don't think you can be too aware though!

 

[WelshGas]

This forum is a great way to research Calis for current owners and prospective owners but I just wanted to ensure those people hanging fire have their eyes open about the road tax (VED) changes coming in April 2017, because I've only just had a proper look at the changes and what they mean.

I think there's been some explanation but not enough just yet, especially when you're talking about expensive, fairly high emission vehicles such as the Cali.

For example, if you were to buy a 204PS Ocean DSG 4 motion today, the road tax will be as follows:
Year 1: £350, followed by £225 per year from then on.

However, if you bought the same vehicle after April 2017 (which will come around quite quickly when you hear about all these delays), it will cost you the following:
Year 1: £1,110 in Year 1, followed by £450 for the next 4 years and then £140 a year from then on.

That's £2,910 over 5 years compared to £1,250!!! In fact, you would have to keep the vehicle for exactly 25 years before the new tax system starts costing you less, cumulatively!

Don't worry, nothing changes for vehicles already registered before this date but it is definitely worth being aware, especially if you're in the market for a Cali, as the only two models (currently) below the all important £40k value threshold (see the article link, below) are the 102PS Beach with hardly any extras and the 150PS Manual Beach with absolutely no extras, including metallic paint!

So if you're in doubt and hanging on, I hope you're saving up as you do so!

Finally, let's not kid ourselves that the dealers won't be acutely aware of this too, as we get closer to April 2017, because they know you will want to buy - and quickly!

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-ne...verything-you-need-to-know-about-uk-road-tax#

The biggest change " Could " be for the Beach which is registered with the DVLA as a " Car ". The California Coast and Ocean are registered as " PLG " and there are NO changes announced as yet for Commercial designated vehicles/Motorhomes/Campervans.

 

[larrylamb]

The California Coast and Ocean are registered as " PLG "

Just renewed the tax on our SE, the renewal states "Tax Class - Diesel Car"

 

[WelshGas]

Just renewed the tax on our SE, the renewal states "Tax Class - Diesel Car"

I stand corrected. Thank you.

 

[larrylamb]

The road tax on the T6 204PS Ocean DSG 4 motion is very reasonable at £225, those emissions have really come down (maybe?). Our 140 manual CO2 figure is 189g/km and taxed at £265 per year.

 

[Rhyddin]

I know there's been threads about what the Cali is classed as, and if there is a difference in classification between the Ocean/SE and the Beach, but there's a great new feature on the DVLA website that goes some way to clearing this up (in the UK anyway, as I know not all users are Brits):

https://www.vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk

You just enter the number plate & manufacturer and it brings up all the details. I have tried numerous Californias off the VW used van site and all of them came up as M1 classification, which is:

Category M: Motor vehicles with at least four wheels designed and constructed for the carriage of passengers.

• Category M1: Vehicles designed and constructed for the carriage of passengers and comprising no more than eight seats in addition to the driver's seat.

Or, more specifically, NOT a commercial vehicle.

On the subject, this is quite an interesting article, by the way:

http://www.gocompare.com/van-insurance/is-my-vehicle-a-car-or-van/

 

[mccp]

I know there's been threads about what the Cali is classed as, and if there is a difference in classification between the Ocean/SE and the Beach, but there's a great new feature on the DVLA website that goes some way to clearing this up (in the UK anyway, as I know not all users are Brits):

https://www.vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk

So I have been trying to find out anything definitive about next year's Vehicle Excise Duty changes as by the time I can order an Ocean, the delivery delays might take me past the beginning of next April.

I went to a slightly different .gov.uk website here: https://www.gov.uk/calculate-vehicle-tax-rates. Click the green button and you end up here: http://carfueldata.dft.gov.uk/

If you select the right buttons for a new Ocean DSG 4Motion (pretty obvious, but it is listed under Volkswagen C.V., not Volkswagen), then you end up on a page that says the tax band is I, the tax class is 39 and a year's tax is £230.

Tax class 39 is Light Goods, so what happens next April? Currently nothing, it would seem, as the changes only appear to apply to private cars.

The same site also has a 'California Beach' and 'T5 California', both in tax class 49 (which, without looking, I guess is Diesel Car).

Confused.

/Edit
This https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/508618/V149_170316.pdf shows the tax rates for class 39.

 

[Teejay]

So I have been trying to find out anything definitive about next year's Vehicle Excise Duty changes as by the time I can order an Ocean, the delivery delays might take me past the beginning of next April.

I went to a slightly different .gov.uk website here: https://www.gov.uk/calculate-vehicle-tax-rates. Click the green button and you end up here: http://carfueldata.dft.gov.uk/

If you select the right buttons for a new Ocean DSG 4Motion (pretty obvious, but it is listed under Volkswagen C.V., not Volkswagen), then you end up on a page that says the tax band is I, the tax class is 39 and a year's tax is £230.

Tax class 39 is Light Goods, so what happens next April? Currently nothing, it would seem, as the changes only appear to apply to private cars.

The same site also has a 'California Beach' and 'T5 California', both in tax class 49 (which, without looking, I guess is Diesel Car).

Confused.

/Edit
This https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/508618/V149_170316.pdf shows the tax rates for class 39.

As I understand the VED will be:
204 X 4 California Ocean 177 g/km (band I)

If new vehicle registered BEFORE 01/04/2017

First year: £355 then 5x £230 so for 5 years: £1505

If new vehicle registered AFTER 01/04/2017

First year: £800 then 5 * (£140 + £310) for the first 5 years: £3050
Additional £310 if vehicle is > £40K

Anyone feel free to correct my figures.

T

 

[mccp]

If new vehicle registered AFTER 01/04/2017

First year: £800 then 5 * (£140 + £310) for the first 5 years: £3050
Additional £310 if vehicle is > £40K

T

@Teejay1 - why do you think that the Ocean will be affected by the VED changes next year?

From what I have seen on the http://carfueldata.dft.gov.uk/ website the DFT expect the Ocean to be taxed as a Light Goods (class 39) vehicle, not a Diesel Car (class 49). This is slightly obscured by the fact that under the current system a Diesel Car in Band I is £230 per year, and a Light Goods vehicle of any band is also £230 per year.

I haven't been able to find anything that says whether the changes next year will affect tax class 39.

If you have a new 204 Ocean in band I, you will be paying £230 a year whatever class you have on the V5. However, if it is in class 49 (Diesel car), then you will have also paid £355 for the first year registration fee. This fee is only for petrol, diesel and hybrid cars (https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate...-for-cars-registered-on-or-after-1-april-2010) and it looks like you don't have to pay it on Light Goods (TC39) vehicles.

I'm going to email DVLA, but I won't be holding my breath for an answer.

 

[Teejay]

@Teejay1 - why do you think that the Ocean will be affected by the VED changes next year?

From what I have seen on the http://carfueldata.dft.gov.uk/ website the DFT expect the Ocean to be taxed as a Light Goods (class 39) vehicle, not a Diesel Car (class 49). This is slightly obscured by the fact that under the current system a Diesel Car in Band I is £230 per year, and a Light Goods vehicle of any band is also £230 per year.

I haven't been able to find anything that says whether the changes next year will affect tax class 39.

If you have a new 204 Ocean in band I, you will be paying £230 a year whatever class you have on the V5. However, if it is in class 49 (Diesel car), then you will have also paid £355 for the first year registration fee. This fee is only for petrol, diesel and hybrid cars (https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate...-for-cars-registered-on-or-after-1-april-2010) and it looks like you don't have to pay it on Light Goods (TC39) vehicles.

I'm going to email DVLA, but I won't be holding my breath for an answer.

Hi
I was looking at it with my car head on not a light goods vehicle. I simple saw the figures from https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vehicle-excise-duty. Followed the link and added up.

As I said happy to be proven wrong, especially as if we pay less

I'd be interested what the DVLA say.

T

 

[Teejay]

Hi
I was looking at it with my car head on not a light goods vehicle. I simple saw the figures from https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vehicle-excise-duty. Followed the link and added up.

As I said happy to be proven wrong, especially as if we pay less

I'd be interested what the DVLA say.

T

Looking at the brochure the on the road prices seems to indicate just a diesel car band I ?

*Manufacturer’s on the road (OTR) package.
Band G Band H Band I
First registration fee £55.00 £55.00 £55.00
Delivery to Van Centre£565.00 £565.00 £565.00
VAT £117.00 £117.00 £117.00
Vehicle excise duty (VED) 1st year £180.00 £295.00 £350.00

If that is used in reference to: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/508618/V149_170316.pdf
It seems to suggest that the first year is £350 when the doc above shows £355..

I'm suitably confused.

 

[mccp]

Looking at the brochure

Well, I think we know how accurate the brochure is!

So far DVLA have replied to say 'please can you confirm the correct registration number' of the vehicle you are enquiring about, even though I told them I'm asking about a car I will be registering next year.

Arghh!

/Enable extreme patience mode...

 

[mccp]

I have just had another look at that http://carfueldata.dft.gov.uk/ website and it is showing the Ocean as a Diesel Car.

Only two possibilities - early onset dementia, or the database has been updated (which is, of course, my preferred option, especially as I'm not sure how I could have imagined yesterday's version)!

I will update again if DVLA respond.

 

[Teejay]

I have just had another look at that http://carfueldata.dft.gov.uk/ website and it is showing the Ocean as a Diesel Car.

Only two possibilities - early onset dementia, or the database has been updated (which is, of course, my preferred option, especially as I'm not sure how I could have imagined yesterday's version)!

I will update again if DVLA respond.

So from that I would you agree that my figures are correct?

 

[mccp]

So from that I would you agree that my figures are correct?

Yes, it looks like a 204 Ocean is a Diesel car. I have since found out that in 2013 DVLA required all Motor homes (includes the Cali) to be put into a graduated tax scale if the manufacturer declared the CO output in its certificate of conformance. Before that time you could get a Cali taxed in the Light Goods category.

After some number crunching, I have worked out what the difference would be in VED costs for the first six years for all models:

Beach 102 Manual £90
Beach 150 Manual -£150
Beach 150 DSG £1640
Ocean 150 Manual £1400
Ocean 150 DSG £1640
Ocean 150 4MO Manual £1545
Ocean 204 Manual £1315
Ocean 204 DSG £1545
Ocean 204 4MO Manual £1315
Ocean 204 4MO DSG £1545

The first two beaches might cost more than that if you have to include the list price of any options that are fitted before delivery, but otherwise they are the only models that have a list price (incl. VAT) under £40K.

Seems like a good reason to order sooner rather than later!

 

[Teejay]

Seems like a good reason to order sooner rather than later!

Agreed, we've just arranged a hire of an Ocean DSG 204 for the early May bank holiday, 5 nights to see if it will work for us.

 

[DM]

My T6 Ocean is classified on the V5C as a Diesel Car and taxed accordingly.

 

[mccp]

I got a reply from DVLA after I asked them about next years tax changes. This is what they said:

All new vehicles registered from 1.08.13 with type approval category M1SP will be taxed in the grad VED tax class based on its CO2 emission figure. If a CO2 emission figure cannot be provided then the vehicle will be taxed as either PLG or Private HGV depending on its weight.

The M1 Special purpose (M1SP) type approval category refers to Passenger carrying vehicles which are designed and constructed for special purposes. Vehicles type approved as M1 Special purpose will have M1SP on the type approval certificate that is presented at first registration.

Vehicles which are type approved as M1 Special purpose are as follows

• Motor homes/Caravans
• Ambulances
• Wheelchair Accessible Vehicles
• Armour-plated Vehicles
• Hearses

The Ocean counts as as a Motor home according to the DVLA rules on kitchens/beds/etc, so I assume that the type approval could be category M1SP.

The trouble is, I don't think that DVLA know if the new rules for vehicles costing over £40K will apply or not. This is what they said about that:

With regards to your question asking if changes in vehicle excise duty will affect the VW California Camper van, I'm afraid we cannot comment as any changes to vehicle excise duty will not be released until April 2017.

 

[Richardofyorks]

Saw quite a good article the other day which explained it reasonably clearly. (Sorry if anyone has already pointed this out)

If (a big if maybe) the Cali is classed as a car AND yours will cost over £40k AND is first reg after 1.4.17
Then (@166-170g of emissions) VED will cost :
£695 more than now over 3 yrs
£1185 more over 5 yrs and
£1170 more over 10 yrs

I should imagine anyone ordering now will have a decent chance of getting it just in time.

A 17 reg that doesn't fall foul of these new rules (ie reg between 1-31 March 2017) will be quite a rare beast.

 

[Nathan Thomas]

I spoke to 2 dealers today, both gave me a 31 week lead time, therefore even if ordered this week it would be touch and go to arrive before April 2017.

Also the £40k value is on LIST price, and the VW stated list price for a 150ps with zero options is £40,320 !!!! (Although this does include OTR extras such as road tax !?!)

I'm gutted, I was very close to ordering but don't want a £500 a year tax cost!

Other alternative is the 102ps and maybe re-map after 3 years!?

Poop!!

 

[Nathan Thomas]

This gives a good indication of current rates:

http://www.nextgreencar.com/car-tax/make-model/vw/california/

 

[daveyboydanger]

I spoke to 2 dealers today, both gave me a 31 week lead time, therefore even if ordered this week it would be touch and go to arrive before April 2017.

Also the £40k value is on LIST price, and the VW stated list price for a 150ps with zero options is £40,320 !!!! (Although this does include OTR extras such as road tax !?!)

I'm gutted, I was very close to ordering but don't want a £500 a year tax cost!

Other alternative is the 102ps and maybe re-map after 3 years!?

Poop!!

My t6 beach is for sale now? That's def before April.

 

[andyinluton]

I spoke to 2 dealers today, both gave me a 31 week lead time, therefore even if ordered this week it would be touch and go to arrive before April 2017.

Also the £40k value is on LIST price, and the VW stated list price for a 150ps with zero options is £40,320 !!!! (Although this does include OTR extras such as road tax !?!)

I'm gutted, I was very close to ordering but don't want a £500 a year tax cost!

Other alternative is the 102ps and maybe re-map after 3 years!?

Poop!!

DELETED as I've now checked the definition of list price. OTR price = List price for tax purposes.