T4 clutch replacement rip off ?

[Borris]

I am wondering if anyone can advise me on a clutch issue that my daughter and her husband have just experienced with their 2003 T4 Autosleeper motorhome. Jon our son in law has just telephoned to say that the said vehicle has been towed to their garage of choice after the clutch pedal went to the floor and he was unable to get it into gear.

The garage concerned have said that the vehicle requires a new clutch, dual mass flywheel and clutch slave cylinder. Since the clutch was working perfectly with no juddering up to the point of failure I cannot see why the vehicle would require either a new clutch or dual mass flywheel. I have had this same issue on other vehicles in the past and it was then purely a hydraulic failure resulting in a new clutch slave cylinder and fluid replacement.

This isn't the first time they have used this garage and it won't be the first time that they have been talked into having unessesary work done.

My questions are:
1. Does a 2003 2.5 Tdi manual T4 even have a dual mass flywheel?
2. Where is the clutch slave cylinder located and can it be replaced easily without stripping down the clutch assembly?

I am no mechanic but I do have some experience gathered over years of messing about with vehicles. Therefore I am rather sceptical about this garage's list of work required and am seeking advice from any knowleable T4 owners. The vehicle has low mileage for the year, sub 100,000 miles. From memory around 75,000.

Many thanks in advance. All comments gratefully received.

P.s They are due to go off to Scotland at the beginning of October so this hasn't happened at a very convenient time. I am wondering if it is just a slave cylinder that requires changing and if so whether it is a fairly straight forward job?

 

[WelshGas]

I am wondering if anyone can advise me on a clutch issue that my daughter and her husband have just experienced with their 2003 T4 Autosleeper motorhome. Jon our son in law has just telephoned to say that the said vehicle has been towed to their garage of choice after the clutch pedal went to the floor and he was unable to get it into gear.

The garage concerned have said that the vehicle requires a new clutch, dual mass flywheel and clutch slave cylinder. Since the clutch was working perfectly with no juddering up to the point of failure I cannot see why the vehicle would require either a new clutch or dual mass flywheel. I have had this same issue on other vehicles in the past and it was then purely a hydraulic failure resulting in a new clutch slave cylinder and fluid replacement.

This isn't the first time they have used this garage and it won't be the first time that they have been talked into having unessesary work done.

My questions are:
1. Does a 2003 2.5 Tdi manual T4 even have a dual mass flywheel?
2. Where is the clutch slave cylinder located and can it be replaced easily without stripping down the clutch assembly?

I am no mechanic but I do have some experience gathered over years of messing about with vehicles. Therefore I am rather sceptical about this garage's list of work required and am seeking advice from any knowleable T4 owners. The vehicle has low mileage for the year, sub 100,000 miles. From memory around 75,000.

Many thanks in advance. All comments gratefully received.

P.s They are due to go off to Scotland at the beginning of October so this hasn't happened at a very convenient time. I am wondering if it is just a slave cylinder that requires changing and if so whether it is a fairly straight forward job?

Yes, there is a Dual Mass Flywheel.
I believe the clutch slave cylinder is within the bell housing. Often the clutch is contaminated so needs replacing and most people replace the DMF at the same time.

One other thing, the clutch peddle support can fail. Easier repair.

T4 clutch pedal bracket replacement

Hi The clutch pedal bracket has broken on my T4 in the (apparently) classic manner. I seem to recall there was at least one guy on here or other forums who supplied a kit to replace/fix it. Can anyone steer me in the right direction ? Sorry if I've missed an obvious link etc. Many thanks

www.vwt4forum.co.uk

 

[bxl_lad]

I'm not an expert, but recently had some problems with my slave cylinder leaking. My mechanic told me in the later T4s , the slave cylinder is within the transmission housing. The only way to get to it was to drop the gearbox out (and i think to some extent the engine - if I understood him well, my French isn't perfect!).
He said it would be a very labour intensive job and therfore costly. Luckily for me for the moment the leak isn't huge and can be contained by topping up the reservoir, but if this diagnosis is correct then maybe their garage is working on the basis that if they've got to do the transmission, then replace those parts while they're there...
Like I say I'm not an expert but just sharing my experience...
But I would suggest at the very least a second opinion from another garage.
Good luck

 

[mrcheesbrough]

There are two hydraulic parts to a T4 clutch - they have a master cylinder too which is in the pedal cluster and the slave. The slave on these is found inside the bellhousing of the gearbox. Assuming it is the slave rather than the master cylinder it’s a gearbox out job making it about as expensive as changing the full clutch. A similar theory applies to the water pump change when getting the timing belt changed.

Dual Mass flywheel? Yes, they do indeed.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Perfectos]

Hi Borris

may be of use to cross reference costs etc.

VW T4 Clutch Components | Just Kampers | Just Kampers

See our choice of clutch components for the Volkswagen T4 campervan at Just Kampers, for vans, Kombis, and Caravelles. Buy online from Just Kampers.

www.justkampers.com

 

[Perfectos]

Some reading

T4 clutch pedal broken as usual? Fix it for £12

Pictures say a thousand words.... so take a look at my side by side video comparision, Broken...

www.brick-yard.co.uk

edit:

Clutch problems..... Master cylinder??

Few days ago, the van was hard to get in gear, then it was all but impossible! Had a good read around on here, and sure enough found my problem, cracked pedal box bracket. I bought one of those brackets from t4vanman, fitted it and that has stopped all the movement!! Happy days! But it still...

www.vwt4forum.co.uk

 

[Borris]

Thanks to @WelshGas, @bxl_lad and @mrcheesbrough for both your knowledge and assistance. I've been checking out Youtube videos on this subject and have noted that if its the clutch master cylinder that's gone then I may be able to change that and bleed the system for them. However, I wouldn't want to attempt the clutch, slave cylinder and dual mass flywheel replacement as that sounds like an awful lot of hassle. Also I don't really have the facilities and my grumbling knees wouldn't like it either.

So it looks as if the garage may be correct in their diagnosis and remedial action plan. If true, that won't be good news as it will swallow up their holiday fund and more and scupper their plans to tour Scotland next month.

Thanks again to you all for your prompt replies.

 

[Borris]

Some reading

T4 clutch pedal broken as usual? Fix it for £12

Pictures say a thousand words.... so take a look at my side by side video comparision, Broken...

www.brick-yard.co.uk

edit:

Clutch problems..... Master cylinder??

Few days ago, the van was hard to get in gear, then it was all but impossible! Had a good read around on here, and sure enough found my problem, cracked pedal box bracket. I bought one of those brackets from t4vanman, fitted it and that has stopped all the movement!! Happy days! But it still...

www.vwt4forum.co.uk

Thanks Perfectos,
Very useful information which will come in very useful.

It seems to me that the course of action should be as follows:
1. Check the pedal bracket isn't defective.
2. Fit the pedal bracket strengthener.
3. Replace the clutch master cylinder and bleed the system.
4. If it's still defective start getting other quotes.

Whilst it isn't my problem I really feel for them especially as a similar thing happened to their previous campervan just before an extended trip around Europe. This van is a low mileage example in excellent condition so was supposed to be a less costly replacement!

Anyway many thanks.

 

[Perfectos]

Thanks Perfectos,
Very useful information which will come in very useful.

It seems to me that the course of action should be as follows:
1. Check the pedal bracket isn't defective.
2. Fit the pedal bracket strengthener.
3. Replace the clutch master cylinder and bleed the system.
4. If it's still defective start getting other quotes.

Whilst it isn't my problem I really feel for them especially as a similar thing happened to their previous campervan just before an extended trip around Europe. This van is a low mileage example in excellent condition so was supposed to be a less costly replacement!

Anyway many thanks.

Always start off with the least costly potential and easiest fix work guys toward the big ticket items / hassle

good luck Borris, bless you, your Fam are fortunate to have you

 

[soulstyledevon]

If it helps.
I had mine replaced years back. Instead of going to VW for the clutch we went elsewhere and fitted the clutch/dmf from LUK. If I remember correctly, it was significantly cheaper and handled the additional 65bhp that we added with engine mods.
Worth a look.

 

[Borris]

My son in law has just sent me the garage's estimate for the replacement clutch, dmfw and slave cylinder. All in with parts and labour, the estimate is just under £1400 which given the cost of parts and the time it will take, didn't strike me as being that bad. If the garage can do the work before they are due to go away then it's probably best just to tell them to get on with it. I'll even pay if it means our Cali stays here on our drive!

I would like to explore the faulty pedal bracket issue and master cylinder replacement first though.

 

[sidepod]

First thing I would check is the the pedal/bracket hasn’t failed. Notorious on some VWs. Easy repair if it is.
I paid approx £1500 for a complete clutch/DM flywheel/slave cyl etc 5 years ago so price quoted looks ok.

 

[BrugseB]

So it looks as if the garage may be correct in their diagnosis and remedial action plan. If true, that won't be good news as it will swallow up their holiday fund and more and scupper their plans to tour Scotland next month.

But then again, as loving caring father, you could consider an early Xmas present

 

[sidepod]

It seems unlikely a slave cyl would fail in a binary sense, they tend to get weak over time which makes me question the pedal.
If it is a slave cyl then it makes little sense to do the job and not replace the whole lot unless you can confirm the mileage/condition of the flywheel/clutch.

 

[Borris]

But then again, as loving caring father, you could consider an early Xmas present

Yes that may well happen.

 

[Borris]

It seems unlikely a slave cyl would fail in a binary sense, they tend to get weak over time which makes me question the pedal.
If it is a slave cyl then it makes little sense to do the job and not replace the whole lot unless you can confirm the mileage/condition of the flywheel/clutch.

Thanks @sidepod.
From the various Youtube videos I have watched it does look like that pedal bracket is the first thing to check. Number two being the clutch master cylinder.

Also, since I found out the the slave cylinder in the later models is located inside the clutch bell housing, I agree that if that has to come off then it would be daft not to do the whole lot at the same time.

 

[AndyWT]

I am wondering if anyone can advise me on a clutch issue that my daughter and her husband have just experienced with their 2003 T4 Autosleeper motorhome. Jon our son in law has just telephoned to say that the said vehicle has been towed to their garage of choice after the clutch pedal went to the floor and he was unable to get it into gear.

The garage concerned have said that the vehicle requires a new clutch, dual mass flywheel and clutch slave cylinder. Since the clutch was working perfectly with no juddering up to the point of failure I cannot see why the vehicle would require either a new clutch or dual mass flywheel. I have had this same issue on other vehicles in the past and it was then purely a hydraulic failure resulting in a new clutch slave cylinder and fluid replacement.

This isn't the first time they have used this garage and it won't be the first time that they have been talked into having unessesary work done.

My questions are:
1. Does a 2003 2.5 Tdi manual T4 even have a dual mass flywheel?
2. Where is the clutch slave cylinder located and can it be replaced easily without stripping down the clutch assembly?

I am no mechanic but I do have some experience gathered over years of messing about with vehicles. Therefore I am rather sceptical about this garage's list of work required and am seeking advice from any knowleable T4 owners. The vehicle has low mileage for the year, sub 100,000 miles. From memory around 75,000.

Many thanks in advance. All comments gratefully received.

P.s They are due to go off to Scotland at the beginning of October so this hasn't happened at a very convenient time. I am wondering if it is just a slave cylinder that requires changing and if so whether it is a fairly straight forward job?

Hi Boris
All Tdi’s have dual mass flywheel and the clutch slave cylinder is in the flywheel housing, its concentric around the shaft, not the most durable setup.
Usually if it fails clutch fluid is leaking out of the clutch housing, but the master cylinder can fail, can the pedal be lifted and pressed again, assuming the reservoir has fluid remaining and work the clutch and as others have said the pedal mounting can fail as it’s flimsy but normally give some warning, its easy to check & theres strenghing brackets available on eBay.

If the box is to come out its prudent to change the clutch, the DMF is not noted for long life and removing the box is a pig of a job on a T4 as the engine leans forward and tries to fall out, engines to move forward until it almost touches the radiator.

The DMF OE is a LUX and as all DMF are crap, my last clutch failed at 2y 2m with a weak pressure plate, clutch was slipping under load although no wear on the plate, the 75kW Tdi clutch is barely adequate for this engine.

Installed a solid flywheel kit from VALEO, which has a highest clamping force & 1cm larger dia.

The solid flywheel is not for everyone as it produces a lot of gear chatter under light load & idLE but is much longer lasting.

Lastly, the LUX DMF is about 350-380 € aftermarket, VW 900 € but with 2yr warranty if fitted by VW.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[Borris]

Hi Boris
All Tdi’s have dual mass flywheel and the clutch slave cylinder is in the flywheel housing, its concentric around the shaft, not the most durable setup.
Usually if it fails clutch fluid is leaking out of the clutch housing, but the master cylinder can fail, can the pedal be lifted and pressed again, assuming the reservoir has fluid remaining and work the clutch and as others have said the pedal mounting can fail as it’s flimsy but normally give some warning, its easy to check & theres strenghing brackets available on eBay.

If the box is to come out its prudent to change the clutch, the DMF is not noted for long life and removing the box is a pig of a job on a T4 as the engine leans forward and tries to fall out, engines to move forward until it almost touches the radiator.

The DMF OE is a LUX and as all DMF are crap, my last clutch failed at 2y 2m with a weak pressure plate, clutch was slipping under load although no wear on the plate, the 75kW Tdi clutch is barely adequate for this engine.

Installed a solid flywheel kit from VALEO, which has a highest clamping force & 1cm larger dia.

The solid flywheel is not for everyone as it produces a lot of gear chatter under light load & idLE but is much longer lasting.

Lastly, the LUX DMF is about 350-380 € aftermarket, VW 900 € but with 2yr warranty if fitted by VW.

Hope this is helpful.

Thanks for the info Andy,

After posting this thread, reading the informative replies and doing a lot of other research, I concluded that the garage concerned had probably diagnosed the problem correctly and their estimate wasn't unreasonably. Accordingly, I advised our daughter and son in law that they should give the go ahead and get the work done ASAP. Going elsewhere would have involved extra costs in having the vehicle moved and would have delayed repairs.

I will let them know about your single plate clutch advice and leave it up to them to decide.

Many thanks.

Paul

 

[jts46]

@Borris what was the outcome please?

 

[Borris]

Now all fixed by the garage that gave the original estimate. I don't know any more at the moment because they bolted for Scotland as soon as it was finished.