Uneven tyre wear.

[Cali Phillip]

Well lets see if its out with a check, under inflation being the main issue. All the tyres are worn more on both edges all round, 1mm less on the very edge than centre.
Previously in this thread is an example similar wear and tracking fine.

 

[TripleBee]

Well lets see if its out with a check, under inflation being the main issue. All the tyres are worn more on both edges all round, 1mm less on the very edge than centre.
Previously in this thread is an example similar wear and tracking fine.

That is one of the reasons I put up the pressure to 3.9 bar (3.95 is the max on the tyres).
They still wear faster on the inner sides at the back (neg. camber) and on the outer sides of the front tyres (turning, roundabouts).
Makes it a harsher ride, but a bit safer driving imo.

 

[Cali Phillip]

That is one of the reasons I put up the pressure to 3.9 bar (3.95 is the max on the tyres).
They still wear faster on the inner sides at the back (neg. camber) and on the outer sides of the front tyres (turning, roundabouts).
Makes it a harsher ride, but a bit safer driving imo.

these are 235/55/17 so tyre max stated is 50psi, so 3.44Bar, upped them to 3.2bar all round from 3.1.
hopefully get a bit more out of these but they are nearing 3mm on front so not far off replacement anyway.

 

[B J G]

Camber isn't adjustable at the rear.
But due to the weight, my tyres wear faster on the inner sides. The camber is too negative, but that is not adjustable. Tracking and caster is adjustable.

It is adjustable eccentric bushes are available. I was talking about alignment to the Dealer mentioned.

 

[Cali Phillip]

It is adjustable eccentric bushes are available. I was talking about alignment to the Dealer mentioned.

It seems if the under inflation is tackles it maybe down to an acceptable level.
Not sure how the crossclimate + tyres wear, hopefully better than the Bridgestone ER300’s but as we live in the Highlands winter / very wet weather is common travel for us.
Crossclimate’s made more economic sense than two sets of wheels and tyres.
Snow socks and perhaps specialist chains are an option for plan Y, plan Z being tractor or recovery!

 

[Cali Phillip]

Today I received my new pressure gauge, claimed to be to Asme B40.1 grade A in the 0-3.5bar range +/- 2%.
Tyre was inflated to 3.2bar flicking to 3.25bar to allow for pump removal leakage.
New gauge, result 3.23bar, so with error at least 3.18bar. So it looks much less likely due to under inflation due to inaccurate gauge.
So i can conclude two things for now.
The first 4000miles with the first owner may have been at the lower load setting and maybe different driving style, i have a vague recollection of them being lower than full load when first checked.
The second is there maybe some alignment error or its just down to natural wear, camber and clockwise roundabouts mentioned above. Seeming worse as tyre wear is high on these vehicles with extra load passenger tyres.
Either way i will get a check on alignment.

 

[Cali Phillip]

Here we are 3500 miles after fitting Goodyear Vector gen 3 tyres ran at 3.2Bar all round, nothing changed on the suspension.
The tyre wear is even side to side on the same axel and wearing much better.
Contrast that with the Bridgestone E300's which came with the van of which I did 4500 of the 8500 miles, at this millage the Bridgestones were half worn 4 of 8mm on the front and the nearside front outside edge worn nearly smooth.
Unsure if this is due to the Good years wear better or running the higher pressures or driving style over the first 4000 miles.

 

[Tim T]

Here we are 3500 miles after fitting Goodyear Vector gen 3 tyres ran at 3.2Bar all round, nothing changed on the suspension.
The tyre wear is even side to side on the same axel and wearing much better.
Contrast that with the Bridgestone E300's which came with the van of which I did 4500 of the 8500 miles, at this millage the Bridgestones were half worn 4 of 8mm on the front and the nearside front outside edge worn nearly smooth.
Unsure if this is due to the Good years wear better or running the higher pressures or driving style over the first 4000 miles.

A bit late to this discussion, and certainly no expert... But some of the wear you show in your pics I think is quite normal and to be expected. It's to do with modern power steering systems and how tires and steering geometry has developed in line with this, (try steering a modern car when the p/s fails...).

I get a wear pattern exactly the same as your pictures show, and have seen that in other modern vehicles I've owned, where the extreme outer edges show some scuffing. It is only a problem when the extreme edges wear through the tread rubber before you hit the wear indicators over the rest of the tire. I've only had this once when the tires were close to their wear limit and the wear can be quite rapid (I do check my tires and was surprised). It was attributed to wheel alignment and definitely not covered by any warranty.

I get 10k miles out of a set of OE fronts and 20k from the rears, which I don't think is that bad considering the weight and power of the vehicle. But I'll probably see if there's a better match for the vehicle next time when all four will probably be up for replacement.

 

[Cali Phillip]

A bit late to this discussion, and certainly no expert... But some of the wear you show in your pics I think is quite normal and to be expected. It's to do with modern power steering systems and how tires and steering geometry has developed in line with this, (try steering a modern car when the p/s fails...).

I get a wear pattern exactly the same as your pictures show, and have seen that in other modern vehicles I've owned, where the extreme outer edges show some scuffing. It is only a problem when the extreme edges wear through the tread rubber before you hit the wear indicators over the rest of the tire. I've only had this once when the tires were close to their wear limit and the wear can be quite rapid (I do check my tires and was surprised). It was attributed to wheel alignment and definitely not covered by any warranty.

I get 10k miles out of a set of OE fronts and 20k from the rears, which I don't think is that bad considering the weight and power of the vehicle. But I'll probably see if there's a better match for the vehicle next time when all four will probably be up for replacement.

Thanks for that, its interesting your fronts are about 10K, think I will get that from these vectors, the wear seems to follow the same pattern, more on the nearside, same front and back, greater on the back of course.
The vectors have hardly worn in the first 3500 miles, 1mm where as the OE Bridgestone ER300's were 1/2 worn (4/8mm) on the front when I got the van. Either the ER300's are higher tread wear or its been driven harder. Time will tell I guess, the vectors are slightly increase fuel consumption balanced with the increased grip in the cool 8c and lower and wet which could be in anytime in 8 months of the year here.
Tyre tests show 4 seasons are more effective than summer tyres up to 8C

 

[Cali Phillip]

Update, the fronts lasted 11500 miles before the passenger side front edge was worn out with approximately 3.5mm left. Been ran at 3.35Bar and on fitting the new set the alignment was checked on a 4 wheel alignment system, it was in specification as Sp0_0k found.
One plus is point is the cali is nearly always ready for winter tread depth of 4mm all-round.

 

[B J G]

Having Adjustable Poly bushes fitted and then Caster and Camber angles set correctly in conjunction with alignment makes quite a difference to handling and tyre wear. Rear can also be done for camber. Not a cheap process but cost could be reduced by DIY bush replacement prior to getting setup.

 

[sidepod]

It's to do with modern power steering systems and how tires and steering geometry has developed in line with this

What?

 

[Tim T]

What?

Simple really, when you steer a 2T vehicle, at speed or stationary, there is a force generated. Modern steering geometry and tyre construction affect how this translates as wear in the tyres, especially the width and sidewall deflection of the over-rated SUV tyres they use on Calis these days. Power steering allows vehicles to generate more force at the tyre without it translating as torque through the steering wheel, and you must generate wear in the tyre as zero friction = zero grip.

 

[sidepod]

Simple really, when you steer a 2T vehicle, at speed or stationary, there is a force generated. Modern steering geometry and tyre construction affect how this translates as wear in the tyres, especially the width and sidewall deflection of the over-rated SUV tyres they use on Calis these days. Power steering allows vehicles to generate more force at the tyre without it translating as torque through the steering wheel, and you must generate wear in the tyre as zero friction = zero grip.

 

[B J G]

Simple really, when you steer a 2T vehicle, at speed or stationary, there is a force generated. Modern steering geometry and tyre construction affect how this translates as wear in the tyres, especially the width and sidewall deflection of the over-rated SUV tyres they use on Calis these days. Power steering allows vehicles to generate more force at the tyre without it translating as torque through the steering wheel, and you must generate wear in the tyre as zero friction = zero grip.

Main detrimental effect on tyre wear by power steering is that it is possible to turn the steering wheel when the vehicle is stationery causing tyre scrubbing. Once moving it would have little wear penalties.

Getting into my non power steering old car with 195 width tyres comes as a shock to the arm muscles as it is virtually impossible to turn the steering when stationery, unless I went to the Gym for a few weeks prior to that.

 

[sidepod]

What is modern steering geometry? Geometry is what it is, it's maths, been around for donkeys years.
Do you mean power steering perhaps?
What ever means you use to drive rack travel (none/hydraulic/electric) has zero bearing on suspension geometry design. Camber/caster/toe/slip angle/scrub radius/offset/ackerman etc are what control wheel position and attitude. Any of these being out of adjustment will cause premature tyre wear.
Sure power steering may allow you to run more caster (self centering/stability) as this increases steering weight, and as you no doubt know, more caster gives more perceived camber with increased steering angle and therefore better cornering so in theory less wear as there is less scrub. (I run maximum caster and it does makes a difference).

What are over rated SUV tyres?

 

[Tim T]

Update, the fronts lasted 11500 miles before the passenger side front edge was worn out with approximately 3.5mm left. Been ran at 3.35Bar and on fitting the new set the alignment was checked on a 4 wheel alignment system, it was in specification as Sp0_0k found.
One plus is point is the cali is nearly always ready for winter tread depth of 4mm all-round.

I put Dunlop economy Van tyres (215) on mine that are slightly narrower with stiffer sidewalls after a good chat with the guys down the tyre centre. They're slightly more expensive than the Bridgestones. It's a little noisier over the bumps (the '235" tyres have far more sidewall deflection) but it takes far less effort to keep in a straight line and feels much "freer" and smoother. In all I don't think the bridgestones are that suited to the Cali, in fact the 235 option is apparently really an SUV (car) option according to the guys down the centre and will always be a compromise of comfort over something. I haven't checked the wear against milage yet, (the wife has filed the invoice), but the 20/25K+ prediction seems realistic for the fronts.
FWIW I only got 20K from the rear Bridgestones, even without any possible wheel alighnment issues on the front they don't last long. Add the drivetrain and streering and the 20K/10K offset suggests only marginal wear with alignment issues. Just a thought.

 

[sidepod]

If you struggle to steer it in a straight line on our wonderful British roads you could try backing off a bit of camber so it's less twitchy obvs at the expense of cornering (adding more understeer). I'm fairly confident all of those hours the VW chassis engineers put in bench marking and testing various tyre/set up configs were well spent and they arrived at the most suitable size.

 

[Tim T]

Main detrimental effect on tyre wear by power steering is that it is possible to turn the steering wheel when the vehicle is stationery causing tyre scrubbing. Once moving it would have little wear penalties.

Getting into my non power steering old car with 195 width tyres comes as a shock to the arm muscles as it is virtually impossible to turn the steering when stationery, unless I went to the Gym for a few weeks prior to that.

Again FWIW, I found the OE Bridgestones to react far more to bumps and road camber than the Dunlop van tyres do, especially the ruts heavy lorries leave. This is probably down to tyre construction as it relates to the overall width of the tyre and it's sidewall construction. Now if you removed the power steering then all this "bump steer" would translate as torque through the steering wheel which in turn would make the vehicle considerably harder to keep in a straight line.
At slow speeds (10mph) approaching traffic lights where buses have created noticeable ruts my Cali used to react with a regular oscilation, a weave if you like. It was never a problem because it was always easily defeated by the power steering (it could even have been pressure variation in the pump itself, I don't know).
@sidepod you quote as much science and geometry as you like but the fact remains that in the real world there are no absolutes in steering geometry, it's all compromise between levels of grip/comfort/handling. You can reduce wear (friction) but in doing so you must also reduce grip, so yes you can set the vehicle up for minimum wear but you also increase understeer, which doesn't help when you need to turn a little quicker at motorway speeds. It's a 2T vehicle and the grip needs to be there when you turn the wheel. And yes the clever engineers probably did work on the optimum tyre for their Transporter Van. Then went for the Bridgestone for the Cali because of comfort levels and other budgetary considerations, allowed by the fact that the power steering means the handling will remain predictable and stable.

 

[sidepod]

I'm out.

 

[Cali Phillip]

215 van spec are a solution which are more expensive so need more miles to break £154 vs £180 a tyre but at about 20k a set its about 3p per mile, given fuel is 22p per mile currently, fuel saving could outweigh the tyre wear. Another pair of vectors it is !

 

[WelshGas]

215 van spec are a solution which are more expensive so need more miles to break £154 vs £180 a tyre but at about 20k a set its about 3p per mile, given fuel is 22p per mile currently, fuel saving could outweigh the tyre wear. Another pair of vectors it is !

235 Michelin Crossclimate SUV, 21,000 miles , Tread depth 4.4 mm +/-2mm equal wear Front/Rear L/R , but it is a 4Motion.

 

[Cali Phillip]

235 Michelin Crossclimate SUV, 21,000 miles , Tread depth 4.4 mm +/-2mm equal wear Front/Rear L/R , but it is a 4Motion.

I enquired about the vector sub version with Goodyear uk. They sound more suitable but they were not keen on suv and non suv types on different axles, legally fine as it was but I am not keen either if honest.
So it would be a 4 tyres to swap to suv’s and given the suv’s would have to do many more miles to give a small p per mile difference vs fuel cost per mile plus a loss on selling the part worn tyres i question if its worth it.
Sure 4 motion spreads the wear over the tyres better.
Perhaps should have started with the suv version but still vastly better than the wear on the OEM Bridgestones,Fronts dead at 8.5k miles.

 

[WelshGas]

I enquired about the vector sub version with Goodyear uk. They sound more suitable but they were not keen on suv and non suv types on different axles, legally fine as it was but I am not keen either if honest.
So it would be a 4 tyres to swap to suv’s and given the suv’s would have to do many more miles to give a small p per mile difference vs fuel cost per mile plus a loss on selling the part worn tyres i question if its worth it.
Sure 4 motion spreads the wear over the tyres better.
Perhaps should have started with the suv version but still vastly better than the wear on the OEM Bridgestones,Fronts dead at 8.5k miles.

Yes, I change all 4 tyres as wear is equal all round, but at 20,000 + miles /set I have no complaints. Normally changed when they get to sub 4 mm all round.

 

[Cali Phillip]

Yes, I change all 4 tyres as wear is equal all round, but at 20,000 + miles /set I have no complaints. Normally changed when they get to sub 4 mm all round.

Fronts passenger front edge worn at 3.5mm, get about 20k a set. The VW tech thought 11k on the fronts was good going. I guess thats the trade off with all seasons that + 4mm are required or desired for winter and winter tyres but summers could go to 2-3mm but two sets and wheels.
Given the wetness here And winter cold wet, good tyres and tread really make it safer.
Like many things in life a compromise