Van battery flat

[rob smedley]

I recently left the rear heater/air blowing (cold), with key in ignition for a couple of hours whilst working in the back. The battery was flat when I came to start the engine.
Is this my silly fault or should the battery not have depleted and it needs looking at?
Many thanks all for your input.

 

[WelshGas]

I recently left the rear heater/air blowing (cold), with key in ignition for a couple of hours whilst working in the back. The battery was flat when I came to start the engine.
Is this my silly fault or should the battery not have depleted and it needs looking at?
Many thanks all for your input.

I’m afraid your fault.
On modern vehicles the battery is designed to start the vehicle and the alternator designed to run all the electrical items. That is why withe the VW entertainment/SatNav systems they shut down after 20+ minutes of use without the Ignition On.
Unfortunately you bypassed that protection by leaving the Ignition On without the engine running.

 

[rob smedley]

Really appreciate the answer thank you very much. Saved unnecessary concern over the battery.

 

[SimonB]

These are very good https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/power-packs-for-flat-cali-battery.15853/ @T6 CFO had one at a meet I went to and it easily started the Cali. About £60
It's, unfortunately, not too unusual to flatten the battery. A common way is to have the ignition on as you raise or lower the roof. This puts the day running lights on. Get distracted and leave it on whilst you do something else and the lights flatten the battery.
On the T6 you have to put the + on the + terminal, but the - onto a metal point of the van to avoid damage to circuitry around the - terminal. Not sure what it is on the T5.

 

[rob smedley]

Thank you Simon. I didn't want to admit it but I have also flattened the battery after raising the roof and leaving the keys in the ignition overnight. I had no idea the day lights were left on if you do that.
I'm learning though! Thank you again.

 

[WelshGas]

On the T6 you have to put the + on the + terminal, but the - onto a metal point of the van to avoid damage to circuitry around the - terminal. Not sure what it is on the T5.

Most modern vehicles that have an ECU have similar restrictions.
In fact you have take care if you have Stop/Start on the vehicle providing assistance.

 

[Velma's Dad]

I sympathise - yes it's easy to leave the ignition on after you've put the roof up. I've managed to develop the 'muscle memory' of whipping the key out immediately that's been done.

It's a good habit to never leave the ignition on without the engine running, in any vehicle. It was crucial in older petrol engined cars as you'd otherwise burn the ignition coil out. But I think even in modern cars you can damage the alternator diodes?

Another gotcha for flattening the battery is the interior 'courtesy' lights. I keep the main interior lights (rocker switch in front of rear-view mirror) permanently off, and have also taken the bulb out of the crappy little light under the rear shelf.

 

[T6 CFO]

I sympathise - yes it's easy to leave the ignition on after you've put the roof up. I've managed to develop the 'muscle memory' of whipping the key out immediately that's been done.

It's a good habit to never leave the ignition on without the engine running, in any vehicle. It was crucial in older petrol engined cars as you'd otherwise burn the ignition coil out. But I think even in modern cars you can damage the alternator diodes?

Another gotcha for flattening the battery is the interior 'courtesy' lights. I keep the main interior lights (rocker switch in front of rear-view mirror) permanently off, and have also taken the bulb out of the crappy little light under the rear shelf.

Snap. Done the same with my interior lights. My favourite truck is leaving the ignition on when I turn it on to crack the front windows and inch or so for ventilation. Not for too long though. Yet!!

Mike


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[MattBW]

Get it on a decent battery charger you may be able to revive it.

 

[Richard]

On our T6 Beach we were disappointed/surprised to find that all the interior LED lights work off the engine battery rather than the leisure battery, after maybe 5 or 6 days parked up on a campsite the engine battery would be down below 12 volts (we carry a cheapo (£2 from china) volt meter which plugs in to a cigar type socket to monitor battery voltages), so we have bought a mains voltage light to plug in on long dark evenings when we are hooked up, we recently bought a mains voltage Outwell Collaps LED light, not cheap but folds up small, seems robust, and very effective.

 

[MattBW]

Your beach is wired incorrectly if that is the case, if you are still in warranty I would get it raised asap. All the lights behind the B pillar should be on the Leisure battery. The only lights that are on the engine battery are the front ones in the cab above the dash. If you have left these lights on for prelonged periods then you may well flatten your battery and this might give the impression that all lights are on the engine battery?

Although my experience is from a 2015 T5 this shouldnt have changed for the t6.

 

[Richard]

Thanks MattBW, maybe our T6 is wired up wrongly. We confirmed the lights in the cabin were wired to the engine battery by switching them on one by one and watching the voltage drop on the dashboard cigar lighter socket. On the other hand the T6 has all LED lighting so maybe, since LED's draw much less power than the filament bulbs on your T5 (we previously had a T5.5 SE with filament bulbs and the cabin lights worked off the leisure batteries) volkswagen thought it was ok to wire them to the engine battery on the T6.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Some more potential confusion there... on a lot of Calis (including ours, a T5 SE) the two 12v sockets on dash are wired to different batteries. On ours:

1. Socket on top of dash (with little flip cover) - Leisure battery
2. Socket on pull-out tray - Engine battery

There has been quite a lot of forum chat about this in the past and it does seem there is some variation between model years.

 

[MattBW]

Some more potential confusion there... on a lot of Calis (including ours, a T5 SE) the two 12v sockets on dash are wired to different batteries. On ours:

1. Socket on top of dash (with little flip cover) - Leisure battery
2. Socket on pull-out tray - Engine battery

There has been quite a lot of forum chat about this in the past and it does seem there is some variation between model years.

Same for me.


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[Freeley]

My Cali is a T5 so I can leave the ignition on and not have to worry about flattening the battery (no DRL'S or fancy business going on).


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[WelshGas]

Thanks MattBW, maybe our T6 is wired up wrongly. We confirmed the lights in the cabin were wired to the engine battery by switching them on one by one and watching the voltage drop on the dashboard cigar lighter socket. On the other hand the T6 has all LED lighting so maybe, since LED's draw much less power than the filament bulbs on your T5 (we previously had a T5.5 SE with filament bulbs and the cabin lights worked off the leisure batteries) volkswagen thought it was ok to wire them to the engine battery on the T6.

Since at least MY 2015 the T5.1 models have LED Habitation lights. At least mine has.

 

[SimonB]

Some more potential confusion there... on a lot of Calis (including ours, a T5 SE) the two 12v sockets on dash are wired to different batteries. On ours:

1. Socket on top of dash (with little flip cover) - Leisure battery
2. Socket on pull-out tray - Engine battery

There has been quite a lot of forum chat about this in the past and it does seem there is some variation between model years.

Our T5 was wired the same way as well @Velma's Dad . Late 2015 model. The 12V Socket in the end of the sink unit was also supplied by the engine battery.
We did a test on a number of Californias at a meet and found that quite a few were wired up this way. With many people using the sink unit socket as a main charging point, because of the flat surface to rest things on, the potential for running the engine battery down became higher.

 

[SimonB]

My Cali is a T5 so I can leave the ignition on and not have to worry about flattening the battery (no DRL'S or fancy business going on).


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You just have to make sure that the day running lights aren't on when the ignition is on. If a battery is already a bit iffy, half an hour of the lights being on can be enough to cause problems starting the engine. I've seen that happen at a few meets where people are distracted after lowering or raising the roof and leave the ignition on.

 

[andrew bazeley]

Mine's a 2008 Cali, so I don't have the day-running lights risk. It's the radio that's been a long-running issue for me though. The original unit used to shut down after 40 minutes, but it totally failed a year ago, and I replaced it with an all-singing-all-dancing Kenwood double-din system. Trouble is, this doesn't shut down, so if you fall asleep with the radio on, it drains the engine battery! On the recommendation of someone on this forum, I recently got Absolute Audio to rewire it, and run it off the leisure battery, with a switch inside the glovebox to bypass the ignition when camping. I may still leave it on overnight, but at least I can start the car the next day!

 

[Freeley]

You'll be the hero of the forum if you can explain exactly how this was done.
I was unable to enlighten anyone after getting mine rewired a few years back.
It would be a very popular mod on here.

Mine's a 2008 Cali, so I don't have the day-running lights risk. It's the radio that's been a long-running issue for me though. The original unit used to shut down after 40 minutes, but it totally failed a year ago, and I replaced it with an all-singing-all-dancing Kenwood double-din system. Trouble is, this doesn't shut down, so if you fall asleep with the radio on, it drains the engine battery! On the recommendation of someone on this forum, I recently got Absolute Audio to rewire it, and run it off the leisure battery, with a switch inside the glovebox to bypass the ignition when camping. I may still leave it on overnight, but at least I can start the car the next day!

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[andrew bazeley]

You'll be the hero of the forum if you can explain exactly how this was done.
I was unable to enlighten anyone after getting mine rewired a few years back.
It would be a very popular mod on here.

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Haven't a clue! It was the end of a long and very sad story. The local chap (recommended by the VW dealer!) made a complete cock-up of the original installation - resulting in the unit repeatedly failing with "start up error" appearing (cured only by pulling out the unit and re-inserting the witing loom to reset it). I eventually got the suppliers - Car Audio Security - to install a replacement unit, but they said it could happen again, because of the way it was wired. Sure enough it did! Then I got the reccomendation via this forum to go to Absolute, and they've done this magic trick! I did wonder whether they would put in a switch to change from engine to leisure batteries, but then - when you think about it - when you're driving along, the leisure battery is being charged! So avoiding the engine battery completely, but bypassing the ignition when camping makes a lot more sense. I can really recommend Absolute Audio (in Amesbury, Wiltshire). The new procedure will take some getting used to though, and there's a risk of running the leisure batteries down. But at least you can keep an eye on that, and run the engine for a few minutes to recharge. I've bought a remote control to switch the radio off at night, but I don't think it turns it off completely - something tech-y goes on!

 

[Richard]

Since at least MY 2015 the T5.1 models have LED Habitation lights. At least mine has.

Ours was a 2011 5.1 model. We find that using the led cabin lights is fine if camped for 3 or 4 days but we tend to drive to the south of France and then camp on the same pitch for maybe 3 or 4 weeks because we are old and lazy now. I am assuming the 20 amp cigar socket in the cabin runs off the leisure battery, as the voltage on this never seems to drop when on site and plugged in, and unlike the dash socket the voltage does not drop when the cabin lights are turned on. The lights in the overhead panel over the dashboard can drain the engine battery quite quickly, maybe these are still not led's on the T6?

 

[AlanC]

Some more potential confusion there... on a lot of Calis (including ours, a T5 SE) the two 12v sockets on dash are wired to different batteries. On ours:

1. Socket on top of dash (with little flip cover) - Leisure battery
2. Socket on pull-out tray - Engine battery

There has been quite a lot of forum chat about this in the past and it does seem there is some variation between model years.

I don't think that this wiring can be guaranteed.

My dashboard cup drawer socket is definitely supplied by the leisure batteries and does not switch off with the ignition. This was confirmed at the dealer when the tech consulted the VW website. He then showed me the fuse under the seat and put a volt meter on the socket while removing the fuse.

Alan

 

[SimonB]

I don't think that this wiring can be guaranteed.

My dashboard cup drawer socket is definitely supplied by the leisure batteries and does not switch off with the ignition. This was confirmed at the dealer when the tech consulted the VW website. He then showed me the fuse under the seat and put a volt meter on the socket while removing the fuse.

Alan

When we did a test of vehicles at a meet they were different. There didn't seem to be a 'correct' wiring. I was told the 'everything in front of the A pillar is from the engine battery' and it wasn't. The socket on top of the dash was from the leisure battery and the rest were from the engine battery. The one by the sink was from the engine battery. But I had that one changed a long time ago.

 

[AlanC]

This thread is making me think I need to go and pull some fuses to check which socket is powered from where...

Alan