VW e-Transporter & e-California

[Sp0_0k]

I think they will get there at some point.
The batteries improve over time. Tesla improved them just recently.
So the current technology alone is pretty viable. You'll need a huge battery to be able to go 500 miles.
But. You can put the battery flat on the floor and in almost any shape, resulting in an amazing weight distribution. You get rid of lots of other huge weight of diesel engine, gearbox, fuel tank etc.
4 engines mounted right on wheels again superb weight distribution and epic 4wheel drive and power.
I see it a completely possible even with current technologies. It is just a huge number of zeros on investing into new designs even with existing technologies.
Add a solar panel surface all over the vehicle (foil technology) resulting in like a 1kwh power at max.
How long did it take VW to make simple electric cars after Tesla Nissan and others?
I see other brand making a decent electric van sooner. Maybe even Tesla.
I follow lots of enthusiasts rebuilding vans to electric. It isn't that hard first of all

 

[soulstyledevon]

Im all for technology if it works.
However battery technology is not green and efficient. We still power our national grid by burning fossil fuels. Less than 30% of our power comes from green sources.
Then we have the problem of lithium batteries. They are devestating to produce on the environment. The mining of metals etc to produce them. Plus the issue of disposing of them at the end of their life cycle.
None of the above is good.

Price...?
My new work van cost an eye-watering £27k.
The previous vehicle was a little Peugeot diesel. It cost about £10k and i had it for 8 years pretty much fault free. As i only covered 25000 miles in that period, i wonder how much i (the company) spend on fuel...?
The economics of it all just don't make sense.

I would rather see a bigger investment in Cycle infrastructure and technology such as e-bikes. Not only is cycling better for the environment, but its better for our well-being and overall health. Maybe this would solve not only inner city congestion, but air pollution and the national obesity epidemic.

 

[Sp0_0k]

Nobody ever said it is green. Though it is greener and more efficient in lots of factors.
As of today, Scandinavia has the most number of electric vehicles. They are one of the cleanest on earth as for electricity production.
The biggest advantage I see myself is the maintenance.
You don't just burn fuel but change oil and lots of other parts in regular cars.
Electric ones will mostly require charging and changing tires. As for the battery life, today's technology allows more than 10 years life easily.
Building a brushless motor power with a LifePo4 batteries for my Kayak now.
The weight is just insane.
I had to use like 30kg total just couple years ago and can have like 10kg total drivetrain with same power now.

 

[owen_h]

I think at some point the discussion will have to change from what sort of vehicle we have sitting on private driveways / outside residences to how are we going to get around most efficiently and conveniently .

Need to do a short journey = walk, cycle, e-bike

Medium Length journey up to 200miles say = autonomous (or semi autonomous) car (probably electric) ordered from central pool locations that turn up at your door and drops you at the desired location. Then it returns automatically to a charging base.

Journey beyond electric range = Hydrogen Fuel cell vehicle or elec one where you change to another fully charged vehicle at staging posts (back to highway inn scenario from horse days!)


To do this we will all have to be willing (or forced by tax & circumstances ) to give up the concept of private vehicle ownership and buy into the concept of pay as you travel. Moves the ‘solution ‘ from a purely technical to being more social and technical.

Camping could be an interesting one, maybe we would have to revert to a caravan type pod towed to the location by the ordered vehicle. So the ownership part is the pod.


Will it / could it ever happen? Lots of challenges for sure and involves a step change in thinking.

 

[soulstyledevon]

E-bikes are an interesting idea and the popularity has been incredible over the last couple of years.
I was at first a little sceptical. I consider myself a reasonable cyclist and this did seem like cheating. It is cheating in a race/Road scenario.
However the application for commuting is a very good idea.

My friend has a cycle shop, so I tried one, and it was pretty good.
I am thinking of investing in one, but still researching.

As I now need to transport a toddler, I am thinking this could lighten the load. Anyone who has carried a child or pulled one behind their bike will understand it’s a lot harder with the extra weight. So I’m looking at pedal assist to lighten the load and cut out more of the small journeys I do with my little one.

5 miles to work. I used to ride this every day. But since he turned up, I’ve been driving as I drop him to nursery on route.
I would love to get back riding to work again. I seriously am thinking this could be the answer.

 

[rupertpoon]

Here is your dream then.....
View attachment 30271

Absolutely! But stick a mountain bike on the back


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[Amarillo]

Camping could be an interesting one, maybe we would have to revert to a caravan type pod towed to the location by the ordered vehicle. So the ownership part is the pod.

Instead of driving to a destination and then sleep, sleep to a destination in an autonomous van and then do.



Follow my blog: www.au-revoir.eu

 

[s2bear]

I have done 800miles in 13hours.
I would expect any vehicle I own to be capable of the same. If not, it's a no from me.
Why would I buy a touring vehicle with limited touring capabilities ...???

Agreed. Same here.


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[Digger]

Agreed. Same here.


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If we all agree that we need for the night heater that alone makes a eCali a non starter if off grid. Some think of a new technology but I think it would mean the death of freedom to roam. Never mind the fact that we will never in my lifetime have the ability / capacity to generate the electricity. We can dream but give me my freedom to choose.

 

[motacyclist]

E-bikes are an interesting idea and the popularity has been incredible over the last couple of years.
I was at first a little sceptical. I consider myself a reasonable cyclist and this did seem like cheating. It is cheating in a race/Road scenario.
However the application for commuting is a very good idea.

My friend has a cycle shop, so I tried one, and it was pretty good.
I am thinking of investing in one, but still researching.

As I now need to transport a toddler, I am thinking this could lighten the load. Anyone who has carried a child or pulled one behind their bike will understand it’s a lot harder with the extra weight. So I’m looking at pedal assist to lighten the load and cut out more of the small journeys I do with my little one.

5 miles to work. I used to ride this every day. But since he turned up, I’ve been driving as I drop him to nursery on route.
I would love to get back riding to work again. I seriously am thinking this could be the answer.

My wife got an e-bike quite some time ago. There are a number of drawbacks with it but things must have improved since she got hers. I’m sure there are a number of Cali owners interested in this, might be worth starting a new thread in the relevant section and sharing research and experiences?

 

[soulstyledevon]

Good idea motacyclist.
It would be good to hear about people who have used them.

 

[WelshGas]

Good idea motacyclist.
It would be good to hear about people who have used them.

I just converted my Hybrid. About £600 in total with a good range around here, many hills and after 30 miles about 45% charge left.

Kit from an Aussie company called Dillinger, they sell in the U.K.

 

[motacyclist]

Ah - it seems there’s already a thread on e-bikes

https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/electric-bikes.5965/

Haven’t read through it yet, look forward to more info on the Dillinger kit too.

 

[Borris]

Instead of driving to a destination and then sleep, sleep to a destination in an autonomous van and then do.



Follow my blog: www.au-revoir.eu

They'll have to do something about the pot holes first.

 

[Amarillo]

They'll have to do something about the pot holes first.

Maybe an option for the autonomous California will be a pot hole radar that will neatly guide your vehicle around them.


Follow my blog: www.au-revoir.eu

 

[rupertpoon]

If we all agree that we need for the night heater that alone makes a eCali a non starter if off grid. Some think of a new technology but I think it would mean the death of freedom to roam. Never mind the fact that we will never in my lifetime have the ability / capacity to generate the electricity. We can dream but give me my freedom to choose.

I would choose a propane night heater... which could run off the same bottle as the cooker.

I think we’ll always find a way to roam, but it may be different to what we expect now. Maybe luxury campervan’s of the future will stay petrol/diesel powered, but younger campers will create electric powered campers for more basic camping, along the lines of the camping pods already talked about.

In terms of the generating capacity, we already have close to the required capacity for domestic recharging , not all of it renewable admittedly. This kind of stuff is being debated elsewhere and while there are obstacles, no one from EOn or npower has stood up and said “we can’t do this”. They will of course see this as a huge opportunity for them, so they are not altruistic!


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[Bellcrew]

I would choose a propane night heater... which could run off the same bottle as the cooker.

I think we’ll always find a way to roam, but it may be different to what we expect now. Maybe luxury campervan’s of the future will stay petrol/diesel powered, but younger campers will create electric powered campers for more basic camping, along the lines of the camping pods already talked about.

In terms of the generating capacity, we already have close to the required capacity for domestic recharging , not all of it renewable admittedly. This kind of stuff is being debated elsewhere and while there are obstacles, no one from EOn or npower has stood up and said “we can’t do this”. They will of course see this as a huge opportunity for them, so they are not altruistic!


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When was the last time you heard a qualified electrical engineer being interviewed about power supplies and the plans for the future. The heads of these organisations are normally graduates in PPE or something similar, the engineers are a long way down the pecking order.

 

[Digger]

When was the last time you heard a qualified electrical engineer being interviewed about power supplies and the plans for the future. The heads of these organisations are normally graduates in PPE or something similar, the engineers are a long way down the pecking order.

Agree. The UK relies on imported energy every year and renewables cost excessive amounts and are not reliable. If memory serves me right the only thing TBlair got right was the requirement for nuclear. If you take coal and oil from the system that is absolutely true.

 

[MarkVw2017]

Ok, Diesel has got some bad press, but the other day i filled up in my van, took 5 minutes to do, and dash gave me approx 500 miles left before refill, easy, quick and convenient, ok it did cost me £60 (but hmrc gets most of that).

You dont get anything like that in an eletric vehicle, not even tesla, and certainly not in a larger vehicle, even the brand new transit vans thats are not due out until 2019 will only be able to do 31 miles before reying on petrol..

Suppose what i am asking is;

1.) Would an Electic California actually work, never mind be viable?

2.) How would the hmrc re coup the lost rvenure from diesel sales if it did work, as they would really miss the £60 of taxable sales from every driver?

3.) And is the manufacturing of these batterries (including mining for cobalt), the massive increase of use of eletric and therefore much more pessure on coal or nuclear power plants actually be any better for the environment than using diesel in the long term?

4.) Hydrogen anyone?

 

[5i1ver8ack]

1) Not in the short-term. It will take a significant improvement in battery capacity and hence range before an electric California is as capable as a diesel California. On a trip to central France earlier this week, my 204 4-motion allegedly achieved over 40 mpg, giving a potential range of over 700 miles on a single fill-up. That sort of range on a small electric-only vehicle, let alone a large one is still years away. (The Nissan Leaf has an advertised range of 168 miles; the Tesla Model 3 (with "long range battery") has an advertised range of 310.) My son had use of an all-electric VW Golf for three months earlier this year. He couldn't get from Southampton to Folkestone without charging it up.

In the longer-term, I suspect some clever Brit will invent some clever device that extends battery life by a large margin. After a luke-warm reception to the idea in the UK, some overseas country will buy up the idea and monopolise. (Maglev; hovercraft, supersonic travel; football; cricket)

2) About 4% of the total tax-take comes from fuel-related taxes (according to the Institute of Fiscal Studies). That's only just behind Capital Gains Tax and Inheritance Tax combined at 5%. That's a big slice of tax to recover elsewhere, but might be achievable if e.g. VAT were to be increased to 25%. But the tax system is already under strain as Corporation Tax is scheduled to be cut from 19% to 17% (good news for Amazon!) over the next few years and there is a popular call for additional funding to the NHS. Or perhaps income tax could be set to a country-sustaining level. (Don't be silly, there's a general election just around the corner - to the great relief of all those in charge at the moment, who will pass the poisoned baton to their successors)


3) The decision to move everything to electric power is about as well thought through and as well understood as the decision a few years ago to get everyone to adopt diesel. There will be all manner of unforeseen consequences arising from the decision. Increased load on the National Grid, additional manufacturing energy costs, additional car parking real estate demand, massive motorway service stations, additional manufacturing pollution, additional recycling/ disposal pollution/costs etc. And there's always the possibility of an unforeseen health scare.

4) Ditto.

 

[Sp0_0k]

Funny how you guys are comparing recent T5-T6 turbodiesels to an electric van that does not yet exist.
Compare it to a petrol T1-T2 to get closer to fairness.
Of course first electric models won't beat the diesels and fuel station infrastructure right away.
But the potential is already pretty good.

 

[MarkVw2017]

1) Not in the short-term. It will take a significant improvement in battery capacity and hence range before an electric California is as capable as a diesel California. On a trip to central France earlier this week, my 204 4-motion allegedly achieved over 40 mpg, giving a potential range of over 700 miles on a single fill-up. That sort of range on a small electric-only vehicle, let alone a large one is still years away. (The Nissan Leaf has an advertised range of 168 miles; the Tesla Model 3 (with "long range battery") has an advertised range of 310.) My son had use of an all-electric VW Golf for three months earlier this year. He couldn't get from Southampton to Folkestone without charging it up.

In the longer-term, I suspect some clever Brit will invent some clever device that extends battery life by a large margin. After a luke-warm reception to the idea in the UK, some overseas country will buy up the idea and monopolise. (Maglev; hovercraft, supersonic travel; football; cricket)

2) About 4% of the total tax-take comes from fuel-related taxes (according to the Institute of Fiscal Studies). That's only just behind Capital Gains Tax and Inheritance Tax combined at 5%. That's a big slice of tax to recover elsewhere, but might be achievable if e.g. VAT were to be increased to 25%. But the tax system is already under strain as Corporation Tax is scheduled to be cut from 19% to 17% (good news for Amazon!) over the next few years and there is a popular call for additional funding to the NHS. Or perhaps income tax could be set to a country-sustaining level. (Don't be silly, there's a general election just around the corner - to the great relief of all those in charge at the moment, who will pass the poisoned baton to their successors)
View attachment 36192

3) The decision to move everything to electric power is about as well thought through and as well understood as the decision a few years ago to get everyone to adopt diesel. There will be all manner of unforeseen consequences arising from the decision. Increased load on the National Grid, additional manufacturing energy costs, additional car parking real estate demand, massive motorway service stations, additional manufacturing pollution, additional recycling/ disposal pollution/costs etc. And there's always the possibility of an unforeseen health scare.

4) Ditto.

Thank you for such a brilliant and in depth reply!! Some very valid points!

 

[5i1ver8ack]

Funny how you guys are comparing recent T5-T6 turbodiesels to an electric van that does not yet exist.

But that's the point. It doesn't exist and there is no indication that it might exist any time soon.

 

[2haw]

VW have released details of the ID Buzz Cargo, 106mm longer than the original ID Buzz..

ID California concept coming soon??

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/volkswagen-id-buzz-cargo-van-latest-meb-family-member

 

[Jabberwocky]

ID California concept coming soon??

Would be nice to see.....