Which electric car to buy?

[sidepod]

Some truly shocking stuff about Chinese cobalt mining in the DRC.
Still want an EV?

The Compass - Green Energy: Some Inconvenient Truths - Green energy: Transport - Green energy: Transport - BBC Sounds

Allan Little investigates the ‘inconvenient truths’ of transitioning to green energy

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[soulstyledevon]

Some truly shocking stuff about Chinese cobalt mining in the DRC.
Still want an EV?

The Compass - Green Energy: Some Inconvenient Truths - Green energy: Transport - Green energy: Transport - BBC Sounds

Allan Little investigates the ‘inconvenient truths’ of transitioning to green energy

www.bbc.co.uk

What’s the alternative?
Only 7 years left for any Derv purchases….

 

[Wildcamper]

What’s the alternative?
Only 7 years left for any Derv purchases….

Add in the enormous environmental damage caused by mining the necessary rare earth metals required, to say nothing about the hold the Chinese have over the supply, and one has to question the whole electric car programme. I love driving electric cars but will never buy one, it is just off-shoreing the environmental problems. Out of sight out of mind. Hydrogen, with its issues, makes more sense. But will still need vast quantities of electricity.

 

[soulstyledevon]

I can’t argue with you. But at the same time, there’s not a lot of alternatives.
Until they devise a way, for transport to be powered by thin-air, we’re at the mercy of big business.

Really interested to hear people thoughts and experience on solar.
I’m currently working out a roof replacement for our home, including a plan to re-roof a flat section to pitched, with a consideration for solar install to help power the Buzz when it arrives.

 

[johnyboy]

Oil drilling was notso safe and clean when it started, and there is a much better change of recycling the rare earth minerals in batteries than oil

 

[sidepod]

I found it interesting that EV for heavy transport (shipping/freight/airlines) is a non starter so hydrogen is the only option.

It would make no sense to have two parallel industries.

 

[Wildcamper]

Oil drilling was notso safe and clean when it started, and there is a much better change of recycling the rare earth minerals in batteries than oil

Recycling rare earths and all the other valuable materials is a must. But if we have 200,000 EVs today and want this number to increase to say 2 million then a lot of primary mined materials are going to be required. Some time back a study was carried out looking at the requirements for rare earths for just the UKs EV fleet. At that time it was estimated that if just the UK went 100% EV then the volume of rare earths required, globally, would increase 10 fold. It is probably less now as rare earth availability, with its associated environmental damage, has already increased, but if world goes EV then the damage will be mind blowing. Significant rare earths were found in Greenland and various governments offered to make every Greenlander mulit millionaires but the Greenlanders refused. They did not want their country turned into a mining waste tip. Well done them!

 

[sidepod]

Interesting bit in the first episode about building a hydrogen plant on Shetland……..which is predominantly peat………which is the best thing on the planet for capture/storage of Co2………which all gets released when you dig it up. Brilliant.

Sure oil/gas was massively invasive but this is the 21 century. If we can’t learn from our past mistakes then we’re idiots.

 

[Wildcamper]

Interesting bit in the first episode about building a hydrogen plant on Shetland……..which is predominantly peat………which is the best thing on the planet for capture/storage of Co2………which all gets released when you dig it up. Brilliant.

Sure oil/gas was massively invasive but this is the 21 century. If we can’t learn from our past mistakes then we’re idiots.

Unfortunately mankind has never learnt from its mistakes. Think if the habitation destruction on Easter Island leading to the failure of that community. The mistake of introducing toads to eat the crop eating insects in Queensland Australia but the toads preferred other local wildlife and they are now a very serious danger to much of Queensland. There are so many others - it's so sad!

 

[Wildcamper]

What’s the alternative?
Only 7 years left for any Derv purchases….

A possible alternative is synthetic oil produced by the Fischer Tropsch process. This was used extensively by Germany in WW2 and by South Africa for its fuel during the years of segregation. One takes coal, converts to carbon monoxide then reacts with hydrogen at high temperature and pressure to give hydrocarbons. E.g 8CO + 17H2 gives C8H18 (Octane) + 8H2O.

It uses a lot of energy in the process but could this process be made net zero using solar power? Maybe not but it might be worth looking at.

 

[sidepod]

I just find the whole thing utterly depressing. We're pissing about trying to introduce EV's to save the planet when there are millions of tons of marine cargo floating around all unregulated. Marine diesel is a huge pollutant and it's all in international waters so nobody regulates it.
On top of that we have huge data centers in China mining bit coin for places like Iran so they can get around sanctions and in the process using huge amounts of power from coal fired power stations. (probably Russia are doing the same?) I know you have to start somewhere but tackle the big issues first surely? Somebody please tell me I'm wrong about this so I can feel a bit better.

 

[WelshGas]

I just find the whole thing utterly depressing. We're pissing about trying to introduce EV's to save the planet when there are millions of tons of marine cargo floating around all unregulated. Marine diesel is a huge pollutant and it's all in international waters so nobody regulates it.
On top of that we have huge data centers in China mining bit coin for places like Iran so they can get around sanctions and in the process using huge amounts of power from coal fired power stations. (probably Russia are doing the same?) I know you have to start somewhere but tackle the big issues first surely? Somebody please tell me I'm wrong about this so I can feel a bit better.

It does feel as if the UK and some European Countries are cutting off their nose to spite their face and other countries are helping to make hay while the sun shines.
The Greens and others should concentrate on the big polluters first . Nothing wrong in gradually reducing fossil fuel usage by building more solar or wind etc: but blanket bans like No IC cars by 2030 or No Gas boilers etc just means that others are reaping the profits fulfilling our requirements whilst doing very little to reduce their emissions, if anything.

It's like fixing the leaking tap while leaving the 24" watermain to leak.

 

[Wildcamper]

Would disagree, Shipping is very well regulated when it comes to emissions:

Cutting GHG emissions from shipping - 10 years of mandatory rules

2021 marks a decade of action since IMO adopted the first set of mandatory energy efficiency measures for ships.

www.imo.org

Shipping Industry Faces New Standards on Carbon Emissions From 2023

Find out how the latest regulations on vessel exhaust emissions adopted at the MEPC 76 meeting will impact ship owners and charterers and the insurance implications.

www.marsh.com

But nobody actually does anything about this in international waters. I believe that some ships have two fuel systems, clean for national waters that take shipping pollution seriously and bunker fuel for everywhere else.

 

[RodCouncil]

I just find the whole thing utterly depressing. We're pissing about trying to introduce EV's to save the planet when there are millions of tons of marine cargo floating around all unregulated. Marine diesel is a huge pollutant and it's all in international waters so nobody regulates it.
On top of that we have huge data centers in China mining bit coin for places like Iran so they can get around sanctions and in the process using huge amounts of power from coal fired power stations. (probably Russia are doing the same?) I know you have to start somewhere but tackle the big issues first surely? Somebody please tell me I'm wrong about this so I can feel a bit better.

Agree on marine, so depressing, but a lot of EV Co's are actually solving the mining issues, Tesla currently recycles only 50 packs a week because the batteries last so long in the first place and they are scaling so solve and share all of their tech (all Tesla patents are free).

We know private EV switch isn't the answer, and lowering carbon (oil) based consumption to renewables is, so in the case of Shetland, the Orkneys produce their Hydrogen from solar and tidal cracking of sea water in many cases, and then go on for fuel cell usage on boats and storage.

I'm currently setting up for Solar, just a complete no brainer now given the loan can be added to the mortgage and quality of the solutions and sale to grid is so compelling (in Sweden) alongside storage in the car for running home devices. It's mostly a big middle finger to big oil and having some energy independence for me.

It's easy to sit and complain, but most of us are in a position do something.

 

[SusiBus]

The part that they do not advertise (or maybe it is in the small print below) - the free chargers are the same as a 3 pin plug at home and may give you up to 3 miles in an hour. My weekly shop is usually 30 mins, so that does not help there.

For many people, who will spend about 2 hours, it may help to recoup the travel to and from the store.

The high power ones are paid pods.

7KW fast chargers are free to use.
22KW chargers are free to use. (When available)
50KW Rapids cost 28p p/KWh

 

[Wondering Star]

Zappi charger made in Uk, had ours for 12 months with no problems.
Skoda Enyak has been brilliant, 11000 miles no issues.
Uk charging infrastructure inadequate, long journeys pure frustration.

 

[TwoTone-BayLeaf]

I quiet like the look of the Fisker.

So perhaps a Cali and Fisker 'double Ocean'

All-electric Fisker Ocean to debut at Goodwood Festival of Speed | Auto Express

£34,990 Fisker Ocean will go on sale next year

www.autoexpress.co.uk

 

[Mr B]

Technology is advancing rapidly and now there are actual batteries being made with sodium instead of rare metals.

The currently valid arguments against mining may soon be invalid.

Sodium battery technology will oust lithium in the long-term

Lithium-ion battery technology is already a major player in our lives and is set to get even bigger. According to analysts, the global market for these batteries will reach almost €200billion by the end of this decade.

www.electropages.com

Sodium Batteries Are Here & They Will Change Everything

It’s eco-friendly, has a long lifespan and can fully charges in eight minutes. Natron’s new battery will change the game.

medium.com

 

[soulstyledevon]

24th February 2022 was the day I decided on an electric driving future…

 

[Wildcamper]

Technology is advancing rapidly and now there are actual batteries being made with sodium instead of rare metals.

The currently valid arguments against mining may soon be invalid.

Sodium battery technology will oust lithium in the long-term

Lithium-ion battery technology is already a major player in our lives and is set to get even bigger. According to analysts, the global market for these batteries will reach almost €200billion by the end of this decade.

www.electropages.com

Sodium Batteries Are Here & They Will Change Everything

It’s eco-friendly, has a long lifespan and can fully charges in eight minutes. Natron’s new battery will change the game.

medium.com

There are no rare earths in the batteries. The rare earths are an integral part of the high strength magnets used in the electric motors. Sodium batteries have significant issues that need resolving, this may or may not happen.

 

[soulstyledevon]

This one…

Hydrogen-powered GR Yaris debuts in Europe

Toyota used the Ypres Rally to demonstrate its GR Yaris H2 outside of Japan for the first time

www.pistonheads.com

 

[reserves]

This one…

Hydrogen-powered GR Yaris debuts in Europe

Toyota used the Ypres Rally to demonstrate its GR Yaris H2 outside of Japan for the first time

www.pistonheads.com

I saw this the other day regarding Hydrogen fuel cells, but what does this guy know eh

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559207038399438850

 

[sidepod]

Right, well that's us told then!

 

[GrannyJen]

24th February 2022 was the day I decided on an electric driving future…

and have solar panels fitted to my house roof with a 16.5 KWH power station.

 

[soulstyledevon]

and have solar panels fitted to my house roof with a 16.5 KWH power station.

I have a solar plan too.
Re-roof next year with solar addition and will look at decarbonising the best way I can.

These look interesting, depending on price and wether they’re affordable yet.

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