Which electric car to buy?

[larrylamb]

I know a woodburner would make a lot of sense with regard to efficiency and hence the environment, but could l continue burning old roof timbers and general builders waste wood?

Yes, but you shouldn't be burning wood that has been treated or painted etc.

 

[andyinluton]

Looks like we should be concentrating on baning wood burning rather than focusing on cars....a quick google found this from a Uk national paper.



The new government statistics show that domestic wood burning in both closed stoves and open fires was responsible for 38% of the pollution particles under 2.5 microns in size (PM2.5) in 2019, the latest year for which data is available. The report said PM2.5 emissions from this source had more than doubled since 2003, to 41,000 tonnes a year, and increased by 1% between 2018 and 2019. Road traffic caused 12% of PM2.5 in 2019.

In the 1970s and 80s, coal fires in homes were the primary source of small particle pollution but these now account for a very small proportion of PM2.5s, the report said. This fall, and cleaner vehicles and industry, mean overall particle pollution levels have fallen significantly since 1970, but they have levelled off in the past decade.

“This reflects the increasing popularity of solid fuel appliances in the home such as wood-burning stoves,” the report says. “Due to the small size of [particulate pollution] some of these toxins may enter the bloodstream and be transported around the body, lodging in the heart, brain and other organs. Therefore, exposure to PM can result in serious impacts to health.”

Wood burners also triple the level of harmful pollution particles inside homes and should be sold with a health warning, scientists warned in December. In January, experts at Asthma UK and the British Lung Foundation asked people to use wood burners only if they had no alternative source of heat. Prof Jonathan Grigg, of Queen Mary University of London, said: “It is difficult to justify their use in any urban area.”

The second report, produced by Kantar for the government, examined who was burning solid fuels at home and why, and included a survey of 46,000 people. It found that just 8% of people in the UK burned fuel indoors, with two-thirds of them living in urban areas where levels of dirty air were worst.

 

[andyinluton]

One of our main sources of fuel is wood from builders, either old roof joists, pallets or general scrap.
As this will only be chucked into skips to end up God knows where, hopefully recycled somehow.

Any thing chucked into a skip these days is carefully segregated when it gets back to the depot.
You would be amazed at how little goes into landfill & how much is recycled we aim for 100% on a construction site but typically get something like 96-98% on a project.
If you start taking recycle-able stuff out of skips it increases the percentage of none-recyclable & makes our figures look worse!

 

[SusiBus]

Try to avoid burning pallets; Heat treated pallets are ok to use as kindling, but you shouldn’t burn the ones treated with chemicals as they can release toxic fumes into the environment. Pallets that have been treated will have a stamp indicating this. The stamp will include the letters HT for heat treated or MB for those that have had the methane bromide treatment.

Oh! Now I have a problem because I have currently 60 in stock at the end of our garden! I had convinced myself that burning pallets was saving them going to waste, reducing the word's gas consumption, while saving me money.
To check, or not to check, HT or MB, that is now my problem. How do I dispose of possibly 60 MB pallets?
Still yesterday I did make a bird box out of pallet wood and roofing felt off cuts with the help of our grandson. Even reusing the annular nails from the pallets. BUT I've got 60 Pallets, that's a lot of bird boxes, and it did take us the best part of a day to make!

Back on topic, our ID.BUZZ is currently in production. As it's delivery date gets nearer, it's environmental and financial sense seems to make less sense. I'll just keep on burning pallets and the Buzz will be our environmental offset.

 

[Velma's Dad]

VW Cali is super lightweight at just over 3t.

Yep. Funny that folks using a Cali as a daily driver don't seem to worry very much about the increased tyre dust versus driving around in a Nissan Micra.

But on the other hand when it comes to EVs I think some people are just looking for reasons to point out how un-green they are... even though the number one planet-threatening issue is human-induced climate change, not so much local air pollution from particulates, or dumping batteries or whatever.

(Not saying those other things aren't important, or we shouldn't be keeping alert to unforeseen consequences, but still.)

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Oh! Now I have a problem because I have currently 60 in stock at the end of our garden! I had convinced myself that burning pallets was saving them going to waste, reducing the word's gas consumption, while saving me money.
To check, or not to check, HT or MB, that is now my problem. How do I dispose of possibly 60 MB pallets?


View attachment 101065

Make them into log stores and sell them!

 

[ArunAlec]

Or use them to hide a big water butt!

 

[andyinluton]

Or ring these people to collect & refurbish or recycle them.

Associated Pallets

Pallet manufacturer in Southampton, UK

associated-pallets.co.uk

If that saves a few new ones being made thats got to be even greener?

 

[johnyboy]

My cali is a ton heavier than my Tesla ... next?

 

[pjm-84]

human-induced climate change - tell me about.

The amount of stuff that we consume and own in the developed world is embarrassing

 

[willwander]

Volkswagen R to be electric-only performance brand by 2030​

Volkswagen R to be electric-only performance brand by 2030 | Autocar

Range will be “gradually” converted to a pure-electric line-up with unnamed concepts already in the pipeline

www.autocar.co.uk

Unfortunately, No mention of their thoughts on pallets and bird boxes

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Volkswagen R to be electric-only performance brand by 2030​

Volkswagen R to be electric-only performance brand by 2030 | Autocar

Range will be “gradually” converted to a pure-electric line-up with unnamed concepts already in the pipeline

www.autocar.co.uk

Unfortunately, No mention of their thoughts on pallets and bird boxes

//
R EV owners will also get access to “exclusive charging options”. These are expected to come in the form of either exclusive charger access or subsidised prices.
//

Only 10 years behind the competition!

 

[kave]

One of the not obvious negatives of EV's is their weight.

This is having an impact on road damage and a polluting effect of high tyre wear rates where the rubber compounds are being washed into drains -rivers- seas-oceans. Plus the increased tyre carcases that need disposal.

Propaganda from the petrol producers. When discussing evs its like suddenly there was never a spill of oil anywhere, BP anyone? Suddenly all metals that are mined are just for producing batteries etc. All of it complete junk information. There is no pollution problem either, the petrol fumes when fuelling is just healthy. Oil change of petrol and diesel cars is so eco friendly.
Cars will never be co2 netral, for reasons you mention. But evs are in all aspects less damaging to their environment, like it or not. Petrol and diesel are dead.

 

[larrylamb]

The new government statistics show that domestic wood burning in both closed stoves and open fires was responsible for 38% of the pollution particles under 2.5 microns in size (PM2.5) in 2019,

Just for balance. Apparently the survey was not related solely to stoves and domestic open fires. Whilst they do emit particles, modern quality stoves with a secondary burn are far cleaner than older stoves and open fires. From Hetas reply
"One recent report suggested that a health warning should accompany wood burning and solid fuel stoves. This was picked up by Asthma UK and British Lung Foundation Partnership, who urged people to stop burning solid fuel. Some articles that quoted the charity, attribute 38% of outdoor particulate pollution to domestic burning. This is a figure that was published in The Clean Air Strategy 2019 and we can understand the concern. A more detailed look at this figure reveals that research on domestic burning included agricultural burning, particulates from abroad, commercial catering, bonfires and BBQs alongside domestic residential stoves and biomass boilers. Having a better understanding of the terms used in these extensive reports reduces concern considerably. Our recent scientific review covers this issue in more detail. "

Apologies for straying off topic.

 

[WelshGas]

World Cup: Wales fans driving to Qatar in electric car

Captain Gareth Bale has his doubts - but the group are confident they will reach Qatar in time.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[larrylamb]

World Cup: Wales fans driving to Qatar in electric car

Captain Gareth Bale has his doubts - but the group are confident they will reach Qatar in time.

www.bbc.co.uk

Have extension lead, will travel! I'm sure they will be fine.
Good plug (no pun intended) for the newly launched MG 4, excellent reviews.

 

[blondebier]

Have extension lead, will travel! I'm sure they will be fine.
Good plug (no pun intended) for the newly launched MG 4, excellent reviews.

It'll be interesting to hear their after thoughts when they've completed their mission.

Assuming they're driving long days that'll be quite a few daily recharge stops.

I wonder how many days it'll be before they wish they'd got a liquid fuel tank.

We recently did a 500+ mile round trip to Sheffield in a day. 3 recharges that day and I was thoroughly fed up with it.

I've since forgiven the car, but I don't fancy doing that again any time soon.

 

[RodCouncil]

It'll be interesting to hear their after thoughts when they've completed their mission.

Assuming they're driving long days that'll be quite a few daily recharge stops.

I wonder how many days it'll be before they wish they'd got a liquid fuel tank.

We recently did a 500+ mile round trip to Sheffield in a day. 3 recharges that day and I was thoroughly fed up with it.

I've since forgiven the car, but I don't fancy doing that again any time soon.

Fast charging infra and the cars charging speed are always the rate determining step, long trips like this are still the biggest challenge even for Tesla's network but it's an ever improving picture.

The actual story here should be about the deplorable state of Qatar.

Is the full tank of fuel a pallet of wood?

 

[Wildcamper]

Propaganda from the petrol producers. When discussing evs its like suddenly there was never a spill of oil anywhere, BP anyone? Suddenly all metals that are mined are just for producing batteries etc. All of it complete junk information. There is no pollution problem either, the petrol fumes when fuelling is just healthy. Oil change of petrol and diesel cars is so eco friendly.
Cars will never be co2 netral, for reasons you mention. But evs are in all aspects less damaging to their environment, like it or not. Petrol and diesel are dead.

View attachment 101094

This graphic represents all metals in all industrial applications. As such its relevance to electric vehicles is at best marginal. In current tonnes mined of ev materials and tonnes mined of materials for ice vehicles the ice numbers are much higher than ev numbers because there are many more ice vehicles about than ev ones. Now recalculate the numbers assuming the vast majority of vehicles are EVs and one will get a very different set of figures. As usual the ev lobby is picking numbers that suit their argument and not representing a true picture. I am not a climate denier, the climate is in crisis. The message from the UN is spot on, Governments are doing precious little about it. If humanity is to succeed in combatting the climate issues draconian decisions need to be made. Overpopulation being just one, ending all personal transport may be another, making the cutting down of trees illegal may be another etc. But pretending that evs will have much or any role in reversing the climate crisis is hiding under the bed sheets. My thoughts for the day.

 

[Borris]

 

[pjm-84]

Oh no not Scotty......we are doomed. The parody Youtube clips of him are great.....rev up your engines!

I'm not aware that anyone has said that EVs will save the planet but it is a funny "anti EV" statement. Its like the last resort when the argument has been answered and there is a grasping at straws response. I have an EV parked at home at the moment as I've walked to work and back all week (as I normally do).

So if I drive it and stopped walking will it help save the planet? Lol

 

[WelshGas]

The only way Climate Change will be reversed is:-
1. Reduction in Human Population
2. Reduction in buying " Things " any "Things".
3. Dampening down the demand of the population to acquire the Things they aspire to own.

Why do we "Need" the latest phone or the latest car, TV or coffee machine if the old one still works.

It's the population growth and the ever increasing demand for "Things " that is destroying the planet.

 

[pjm-84]

OMG - Agree 100% with WG.....a first

 

[RodCouncil]

The only way Climate Change will be reversed is:-
1. Reduction in Human Population
2. Reduction in buying " Things " any "Things".
3. Dampening down the demand of the population to acquire the Things they aspire to own.

Why do we "Need" the latest phone or the latest car, TV or coffee machine if the old one still works.

It's the population growth and the ever increasing demand for "Things " that is destroying the planet.

4. Self entitlement from affluent folk

I have a lot of friends with no kids or 1, and they seem to think it's ok to have 8 bikes, travel all over the world to compete in Triathlons or take a cycling holiday in Spain instead of Sweden, it's the entitlement some have over natural resources (just because they can) is also a big contributor.

But who can change this economic model? I think the producers need to own more of these issues instead of blaming consumers, but as GM says a lot, maybe we should act as Citizens instead of Consumers.

 

[willwander]

4. Self entitlement from affluent folk

I have a lot of friends with no kids or 1, and they seem to think it's ok to have 8 bikes, travel all over the world to compete in Triathlons or take a cycling holiday in Spain instead of Sweden, it's the entitlement some have over natural resources (just because they can) is also a big contributor.

But who can change this economic model? I think the producers need to own more of these issues instead of blaming consumers, but as GM says a lot, maybe we should act as Citizens instead of Consumers.

Having no kids probably reduces your carbon footprint quite a bit.