Which electric car to buy?

[The Tall Luthier]

I think we need to get some facts straight. Vehicles are the source of co2 emissions during all the phases of their life cycle : production, usage and recycling.

1. During production, the co2 cost of an ice and ev are similar.
2. It is true that an EV doesn't have tailgate emissions. However, production of electricity does produce co2. Recently, because of the fact that nuclear power generation has been reduced, the emissions per kwh has gone up. In Germany, there is currently 237g co2 per kwh produced. An EV consumes 18 kwh/100k which means it emits 43 g co2/km. A modern diesel car emits approximately 100g Co2 / km.

While the EV does indeed emit less co2, it certainly isn't 0.

Source for co2 emissions for electricity production : https://app.electricitymaps.com/map


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I think the jury is out on co2 emissions from production. The Times announced last year that an ev has to travel for 50,000 miles before they have done equal damage to an ice. I think the stat is largely dependent on who you ask, EV people or Oil people.

@chockswahay it’s worth noting that government policy over cars in the U.K. has never been about saving the planet it’s been almost entirely about boating consumerism. The diesel scrappage scheme where we destroyed perfectly good vehicles in favour of new ones was exactly this, most of a cars CF is spent in production.

 

[flying banana]

Read something the other day about how plant based farming kills more animals than meat farming due to land clearance and insecticides etc. don’t know how true it is.

It is very true. Inects. Rabbits. Snakes voles . Moles etc are all killed going crops where in a field of cattle they thrive

 

[ive_california]

I think the jury is out on co2 emissions from production. The Times announced last year that an ev has to travel for 50,000 miles before they have done equal damage to an ice. I think the stat is largely dependent on who you ask, EV people or Oil people.

@chockswahay it’s worth noting that government policy over cars in the U.K. has never been about saving the planet it’s been almost entirely about boating consumerism. The diesel scrappage scheme where we destroyed perfectly good vehicles in favour of new ones was exactly this, most of a cars CF is spent in production.

That Stat depends on where you live. According to https://app.electricitymaps.com/map, co2 emissions per kwh now is:

. 82g in the UK
. 43g in Belgium
. 275g in Germany
. 636g in Poland

The co2 emissions per km are hugely different depending on where you live. In extreme cases, an ice car could even emit less co2.

However, in some countries the emissions for electricity production are very good.


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[Ch1pbutty]

That Stat depends on where you live. According to https://app.electricitymaps.com/map, co2 emissions per kwh now is:

. 82g in the UK
. 43g in Belgium
. 275g in Germany
. 636g in Poland

The co2 emissions per km are hugely different depending on where you live. In extreme cases, an ice car could even emit less co2.

However, in some countries the emissions for electricity production are very good.


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Poland and Germany are still reliant on coal. Hence the high figures. Coal burn has increased as a result of the war in Ukraine + emissions targets sidelined.

 

[GrannyJen]

Read something the other day about how plant based farming kills more animals than meat farming due to land clearance and insecticides etc. don’t know how true it is.

Go shopping for vegetables and try to be low carbon, it's a nightmare. I've stopped eating avocado's since I read about land clearance, water consumption and the cost of getting it here. Even a bag of humble potatoes, I thought I was buying British, and ended up with Israeli ones, and here was I stupidly thinking British soil would be more conducive to potato farming than the Negev desert.

My meat comes direct from a regenerative farming co-operative in the Yorkshire Dales/forest of Bowland area and it is lovely, so is the soil, so are the animals and the wildlife thrive.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

K

Go shopping for vegetables and try to be low carbon, it's a nightmare. I've stopped eating avocado's since I read about land clearance, water consumption and the cost of getting it here. Even a bag of humble potatoes, I thought I was buying British, and ended up with Israeli ones, and here was I stupidly thinking British soil would be more conducive to potato farming than the Negev desert.

My meat comes direct from a regenerative farming co-operative in the Yorkshire Dales/forest of Bowland area and it is lovely, so is the soil, so are the animals and the wildlife thrive.

Kiwi fruit is the worst. Refrigerated in NZ before loading, long refrigerated sea voyage, then discharged into cold store at destination, then driven on refrigerated truck to the supermarket. Huge amount of energy for a few vitamins!

 

[ive_california]

Poland and Germany are still reliant on coal. Hence the high figures.

Belgium and France produce electricity with nuclear power. In terms of co2 emissions, that is a clear win.

You simply need to ignore the nuclear waste.

Reducing your individual 'environment footprint' is hard. Saying that someone who drives an ice vehicle is not environment conscious and someone who drives an EV is good is way too simple.

We try to use our cars as little as possible, don't fly by plane and have a very eco-friendly house.

But yes, we do plan to use our Cali for a long long time.

Oh, and don't get me started about the fact that you would sell (export?) your ice vehicle to buy an EV one. Do you really think that the new owner won't drive your old vehicle?

...


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[Amarillo]

I’d be happy with a small four seater. Top speed 50mph and a range of 20miles for pootling around London.

Does such a car exist?

 

[chockswahay]

Belgium and France produce electricity with nuclear power. In terms of co2 emissions, that is a clear win.

You simply need to ignore the nuclear waste.

Reducing your individual 'environment footprint' is hard. Saying that someone who drives an ice vehicle is not environment conscious and someone who drives an EV is good is way too simple.

We try to use our cars as little as possible, don't fly by plane and have a very eco-friendly house.

But yes, we do plan to use our Cali for a long long time.

Oh, and don't get me started about the fact that you would sell (export?) your ice vehicle to buy an EV one. Do you really think that the new owner won't drive your old vehicle?

...


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I was mostly with you until the last paragraph…… yes of course the next owner will drive the ICE van that we sell them but our purchase of an EV will be one less ICE vehicle on the road…….. we HAVE to start somewhere!

 

[chockswahay]

I’d be happy with a small four seater. Top speed 50mph and a range of 20miles for pootling around London.

Does such a car exist?

Smart EQ Forfour Running Costs, MPG, Economy, Reliability, Safety

Buying advice for the Smart EQ Forfour covering running costs, MPG, Fuel Economy, Reliability and Safety, from the expert What Car? review team.

www.whatcar.com

 

[ive_california]

I’d be happy with a small four seater. Top speed 50mph and a range of 20miles for pootling around London.

Does such a car exist?

Something like this? https://microlino-car.com/en/microlino


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[WelshGas]

I was mostly with you until the last paragraph…… yes of course the next owner will drive the ICE van that we sell them but our purchase of an EV will be one less ICE vehicle on the road…….. we HAVE to start somewhere!

Possibly with China, India, USA and Brasil to begin with.
And please do not go on about how many EV s China produces.

 

[SusiBus]

To get back on the thread subject " WHICH ELECTRIC CAR TO BUY " Well, we've bought a Buzz. Had the fast charger wall box, courtesy of VW Finance installed today, and tomorrow is Buzz Day. I'll post a picture in the near future.

 

[westfalia]

K

Kiwi fruit is the worst. Refrigerated in NZ before loading, long refrigerated sea voyage, then discharged into cold store at destination, then driven on refrigerated truck to the supermarket. Huge amount of energy for a few vitamins!

Cocaine is the worst, harvested in Columbia and then shipped with speedboats and cargo freighters all around the world to then end up in Rotterdam, then gets driven to the Uk.
Thats a massive carbon footprint, if ever I saw one.

 

[soulstyledevon]

I’ve just watched channel 4 news and their report from Mount Washington weather station and the analysis from NASA climate experts.
It’s grim news and irrefutable that climate change is here now and accelerating and an alarming pace. The artic circle warming faster than anywhere else on the planet, as we loose the ice sheet, more heat and light is absorbed instead of being reflected.
They say over the coming years climate change will be the biggest economic impact to world economies affecting every nation on the planet…

 

[2into1]

Harry has his say.... And makes some good points...

 

[Lambeth Cali]

I think we need to get some facts straight. Vehicles are the source of co2 emissions during all the phases of their life cycle : production, usage and recycling.

1. During production, the co2 cost of an ice and ev are similar.
2. It is true that an EV doesn't have tailgate emissions. However, production of electricity does produce co2. Recently, because of the fact that nuclear power generation has been reduced, the emissions per kwh has gone up. In Germany, there is currently 237g co2 per kwh produced. An EV consumes 18 kwh/100k which means it emits 43 g co2/km. A modern diesel car emits approximately 100g Co2 / km.

While the EV does indeed emit less co2, it certainly isn't 0.

Source for co2 emissions for electricity production : https://app.electricitymaps.com/map


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Come on, these are tired old arguments.

Oil is going to run out.
Carbon dioxide produced making electricity could hopefully soon be captured. Unlikely from a car tail pipe.

Electricity generation from renewables is increasing rapidly.

Oil has made people rich for decades and whoever creates clean energy will reap billions.

Plus the old joke “nuclear fusion is only ten years away. And it always will be!” soon may not be correct.

 

[chockswahay]

Harry has his say.... And makes some good points...

Very interesting points made in that video……….. me? confused? HELL YEAH!

 

[westfalia]

Here you go.

 

[ive_california]

Come on, these are tired old arguments.

Oil is going to run out.
Carbon dioxide produced making electricity could hopefully soon be captured. Unlikely from a car tail pipe.

Electricity generation from renewables is increasing rapidly.

Oil has made people rich for decades and whoever creates clean energy will reap billions.

Plus the old joke “nuclear fusion is only ten years away. And it always will be!” soon may not be correct.

I clearly didn't make my point well enough. I'm totally in favor of reducing our carbon footprint. I have been working on that very topic for myself and my company for years.

We decided to :
. Invest in clean heating for our house + a thorough eco-friendly renovation
. We take our bikes whenever possible, even for relatively long distance in stead of our car
. We promote taking the train for EU business travel whenever possible.
. We plan to use our Cali regularly for holidays, but the relative eco-friendly nature of that vs a big camper is clear.

My point is that ONLY looking at 'does this guy drive an EV yes or no ' and deciding on that basis whether he cares about global warming is very wrong. I bet that we prevent a lot more emissions by using our bikes than if we would have bought an EV.

And that a tailgate emissions of 0 for EV doesn't mean that the actual emissions are 0. I provided a way to measure the co2 emissions for your ev, depending on where you live and how your electricity is produced. I'm totally in favor of nuclear power, by the way. You can check for yourself what a massive positive impact it has on co2 emissions. But again, if you state 'an EV emits 0', that would make a bike equally 'polluting' as an EV, which is wrong.

In order to slow global warming down, you need to look carefully at your ecological footprint and CHANGE YOUR BEHAVIOR to make serious reductions.


I 'm sorry to go off-topic so badly. Saw the environmental argument - which I care about greatly - and felt the urge to reply on it.


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[GrannyJen]

I can'y quite grasp all these intellectual arguments so I keep my life simple.

If I want to travel a few hundred miles then for the sake of simplicity, comfort and convenience I take my camper and overnight somewhere convenient.

If I want to tootle around town up to 60 miles away and back then I do it in my EV.

 

[Velma's Dad]

The order is still in.
But with no build date and further reflection, looking at alternatives.
The petrolhead in me, wants a newish 911, the practical brain says, family sensible long range EV.
It’s really hard and I’m not trying to be rude. But I really don’t want a Tesla as half the neighbourhood has one. But you can’t fault their range and charging infrastructure… most of the time.

Just been out with for the evening with our neighbours in their Kia Niro. Seemed a nice car and they're very happy with it, having got rid of their Tesla which had no end of stupid problems.

 

[vmaxkiddy]

Volvo study into the carbon footprint of their C40 recharge. It’s a long read.

https://www.volvocars.com/images/v/-/media/Market-Assets/INTL/Applications/DotCom/PDF/C40/Volvo-C40-Recharge-LCA-report.pdf

 

[ArunAlec]

To get back to the original question “what electric car to buy”?

The MG EV4 seems to regarded as a favourite and relatively cheap.
The only problem I’d have with it is that it cannot take a roof rack.

 

[Wildcamper]

To get back to the original question “what electric car to buy”?

The MG EV4 seems to regarded as a favourite and relatively cheap.
The only problem I’d have with it is that it cannot take a roof rack.

But do you want to support a Chinese manufacturer?