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Which electric car to buy?

ArunAlec

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But do you want to support a Chinese manufacturer?
A moral conundrum that I’d struggle with if I was seriously in the market for a new car.
A bit of a Rabbit hole!
Where are solar panels, heat pumps manufactured?
Where are the component parts of any product (car?) that we own manufactured?
Is it morally acceptable to sell Rolls Royce cars to China?

You could argue that by supporting the Chinese in building “cheap” EVs you are helping the global move away from fossil fuel.

I really don’t know!
 
Wildcamper

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A moral conundrum that I’d struggle with if I was seriously in the market for a new car.
A bit of a Rabbit hole!
Where are solar panels, heat pumps manufactured?
Where are the component parts of any product (car?) that we own manufactured?
Is it morally acceptable to sell Rolls Royce cars to China?

You could argue that by supporting the Chinese in building “cheap” EVs you are helping the global move away from fossil fuel.

I really don’t know!
I agree. But in the current world situation I try to support local, or as near as, as far as possible.
 
ArunAlec

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I agree. But in the current world situation I try to support local, or as near as, as far as possible.
And what’s more British than an MG!
I see they are planning on a 2 seater EV , possibly badged as an MGC.
 
Lambeth Cali

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£31,250 Mazda Range Extender 373 miles range
I am still smitten by the i3 equivalent though. Although @soulstyledevon has now interested me in a used XC40 Hybrid. The Volvo vibe is strong, and only 20cm longer than our Golf which will keep Mrs Lambeth content.

err pretty certain all MGs are built in China. Happy to be corrected.
 
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GrannyJen

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I am still smitten by the i3 equivalent though. Although @soulstyledevon has now interested me in a used XC40 Hybrid. The Volvo vibe is strong, and only 20cm longer than our Golf which will keep Mrs Lambeth content.

err pretty certain all MGs are built in China. Happy to be corrected.

So is the TFL electric bus.

A sad reflection for me as I was the FC that closed Park Royal Vehicles who were building the routemaster replacement known as the Titan, or less affectionately, the Titanic.
 
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N

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I agree. But in the current world situation I try to support local, or as near as, as far as possible.
That’s very difficult to do. I wouldn’t mind paying a bit more for UK produced goods, but they’re not easy to find.
 
vwcaliforniacornwall

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I had an iD4 which I kept for 4 weeks. The infotainment system is so appalling I couldn’t live with it. It would randomly spend 3 to 5 minutes each time I started trying to make an internet connection before finally giving up. The heating controls are useless and not even lit at night so you can’t see them. At least one system failure warning light would show on every other journey and the vehicle makes a horrible grinding noise when regenerating. Charging is also very much slower than advertised. The local dealer tried to fix it twice but the statement from their service manager was, I quote, “Your basically buying a beta car and should expect things not to work”. VW UK customer services were not interested at all and of zero help. If it wasn’t for the fact that the VW California is such a cool van I would never have bought from VW again. I think that the Japanese / Chinese / Korean alternatives are way ahead of the game. (I did have a 2 yrs old Jaguar iPace for 8 months which was amazing but still only managed a range of 200 miles max and I was scared of the potential costs when things would go wrong at the end of the 3 yr warranty - like matrix headlights at £3k a piece!).
I do however have an Ami in France - Awesome, a bit crap, but I love it.

4464B3FB-C97B-45EE-8FD1-47828CB36F5D.jpeg
 
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66tim99

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Your basically buying a beta car and should expect things not to work”
:shocked I thought that’s what the million miles of testing were all about.
I sat in an Ami at Goodwood. My mate and I just fitted, and laughed as we imagined being 14 again, but getting your hands on an Ami. Would have been ideal! The saleswoman said they’re not classed as a car in France and you can drive them at 14?
 
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Velma's Dad

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:shocked I thought that’s what the million miles of testing were all about.
I sat in an Ami at Goodwood. My mate and I just fitted, and laughed as we imagined being 14 again, but getting your hands on an Ami. Would have been ideal! The saleswoman said they’re not classed as a car in France and you can drive them at 14?
I think that's why there are so many 'micro cars' of various manufactures in France - people who've lost their licence by being one pastis over the eight can retain their mobility to get to the sports bar. And why it's lethal to step into the road in front of a microcar.

(Apols if I've got that wrong, just something I read somewhere.)
 
Lambeth Cali

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I had an iD4 which I kept for 4 weeks. The infotainment system is so appalling I couldn’t live with it. It would randomly spend 3 to 5 minutes each time I started trying to make an internet connection before finally giving up. The heating controls are useless and not even lit at night so you can’t see them. At least one system failure warning light would show on every other journey and the vehicle makes a horrible grinding noise when regenerating. Charging is also very much slower than advertised. The local dealer tried to fix it twice but the statement from their service manager was, I quote, “Your basically buying a beta car and should expect things not to work”. VW UK customer services were not interested at all and of zero help. If it wasn’t for the fact that the VW California is such a cool van I would never have bought from VW again. I think that the Japanese / Chinese / Korean alternatives are way ahead of the game. (I did have a 2 yrs old Jaguar iPace for 8 months which was amazing but still only managed a range of 200 miles max and I was scared of the potential costs when things would go wrong at the end of the 3 yr warranty - like matrix headlights at £3k a piece!).
I do however have an Ami in France - Awesome, a bit crap, but I love it.

View attachment 104048
The person who oversaw the infotainment in ID3 and ID4 has been sacked apparently. An update is due soon.
 
GrannyJen

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The person who oversaw the infotainment in ID3 and ID4 has been sacked apparently. An update is due soon.

The big update was in March last year. It can still be a bit laggy as it starts up but I've had no problems at all with it in my Cupra.

Update: I also found it slow to charge on AC but as I was using a domestic 3 pin socket I was not that bothered. Then I went to a hotel in Exeter and decided to top up from a 7kwh charger in the hotel car park. It charged no quicker so I went and played with all the "E-Manager" settings. There I found a little button at the bottom of one of the pages that said "restrict charging rate when on AC". Turned it off and away it went, 5 times quicker charging.

No idea why it's there, I just assume it's something to do with rectifier protection.
 
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chockswahay

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I had an iD4 which I kept for 4 weeks. The infotainment system is so appalling I couldn’t live with it. It would randomly spend 3 to 5 minutes each time I started trying to make an internet connection before finally giving up. The heating controls are useless and not even lit at night so you can’t see them. At least one system failure warning light would show on every other journey and the vehicle makes a horrible grinding noise when regenerating. Charging is also very much slower than advertised. The local dealer tried to fix it twice but the statement from their service manager was, I quote, “Your basically buying a beta car and should expect things not to work”. VW UK customer services were not interested at all and of zero help. If it wasn’t for the fact that the VW California is such a cool van I would never have bought from VW again. I think that the Japanese / Chinese / Korean alternatives are way ahead of the game. (I did have a 2 yrs old Jaguar iPace for 8 months which was amazing but still only managed a range of 200 miles max and I was scared of the potential costs when things would go wrong at the end of the 3 yr warranty - like matrix headlights at £3k a piece!).
I do however have an Ami in France - Awesome, a bit crap, but I love it.

View attachment 104048
Awesome! I love that little Citroen. I don't think it will really catch on in the UK though as it is just a little bit too slow for most of the traffic that will be held up behind! 50 mph and it would be more viable. I love the 'is it going forwards or backwards?' look too :D
 
Amarillo

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Awesome! I love that little Citroen. I don't think it will really catch on in the UK though as it is just a little bit too slow for most of the traffic that will be held up behind! 50 mph and it would be more viable. I love the 'is it going forwards or backwards?' look too :D

I love it too. It would be perfect for us in London if it had a four person version.
 
vwcaliforniacornwall

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I was looking at getting an Ami for the UK but there are a few issues:
LHD only - not a major issue as it is so narrow!
28 mph max speed just a bit too slow for even som work commuter routes - I think that limitation is so that it can be classed as a 4 wheel moped
Main problem is that they have been lazy with the charging - it comes with a french 2 pin plug and an adapter that gives you a male type 2 charger plug. I have a tethered Zappi at home (with male end) and as far as I can see there’s no type 2 male to male connector. I don’t think you can even plug it into UK mains.
BUT, if I still had teenagers at home I would rather have then in one of these than on a moped.
 
Borris

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There is only one truth in this whole debate. Buy whatever form of bovine you like but the only certainty is that you are being conned. It matters not what cow you choose as there will always be endless opportunities to milk it.

Whether you decide to take the moral high road in your shiny new EV or keep plugging on in your old banger, you will be made to pay in every which way possible.

What is less clear is which form of cash cow is better for the environment? Don't be taken in by all the guff (opinions and figures), as they often eminate from sources that have some stake to hold. As for the government telling us what we can and cannot buy after 2030, that will certainly turn out to be yet another cretinous decision.
 
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Corradobrit

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The Ami is available for order from the UK dealer network. It is designed to be plugged into the lamp post chargers that are popping up in the urban environment. Early adopters will even get 3 months charging completely free.
 
WelshGas

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The big update was in March last year. It can still be a bit laggy as it starts up but I've had no problems at all with it in my Cupra.

Update: I also found it slow to charge on AC but as I was using a domestic 3 pin socket I was not that bothered. Then I went to a hotel in Exeter and decided to top up from a 7kwh charger in the hotel car park. It charged no quicker so I went and played with all the "E-Manager" settings. There I found a little button at the bottom of one of the pages that said "restrict charging rate when on AC". Turned it off and away it went, 5 times quicker charging.

No idea why it's there, I just assume it's something to do with rectifier protection.
Some domestic supplies have a low amps supply to the property. Probably there to avoid blowing the house supply fuse which can be 60,80 or 100 amps total. Older properties tend to be 60.
 
Velma's Dad

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The Ami is available for order from the UK dealer network. It is designed to be plugged into the lamp post chargers that are popping up in the urban environment. Early adopters will even get 3 months charging completely free.
Small cars of any kind are certainly the way to go if you want to minimise carbon. Even a petrol supermini probably has lower cradle-to-grave emissions that a Chelsea tractor-scale EV.

I came across this very good article. It uses UK assumptions for grid carbon intensity, makes some quite broad generalisations and simplifications but I think does quite a neat job of explaining the factors involved in ICEs vs EVs and CO2 emissions, without getting bogged down in the evils of lithium mining, putting out EV battery fires on the hard shoulder, etc etc.

For us Cali owners it's a useful basis for pondering whether (in carbon terms) it makes sense to buy a small EV to use alongside a Cali, rather than just using the Cali for everything. Based on the article, and some other assumptions:

Based on daily drive miles (ie not holidays, moving Aunt Mabel's sofa, etc): 10,000 pa
Cali emissions per mile: 211g (T6 148bhhp)
Small EV emissions per mile: 45g (from article, based on UK grid intensity)
Avoided emissions by using EV for 10k daily drive miles, per year: 1.7 tonnes approx
Embodied carbon for second car (small EV): 14 tonnes (from article)
Payback time: 8.2 years

Hmmm....
 
westfalia

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Small cars of any kind are certainly the way to go if you want to minimise carbon. Even a petrol supermini probably has lower cradle-to-grave emissions that a Chelsea tractor-scale EV.

I came across this very good article. It uses UK assumptions for grid carbon intensity, makes some quite broad generalisations and simplifications but I think does quite a neat job of explaining the factors involved in ICEs vs EVs and CO2 emissions, without getting bogged down in the evils of lithium mining, putting out EV battery fires on the hard shoulder, etc etc.

For us Cali owners it's a useful basis for pondering whether (in carbon terms) it makes sense to buy a small EV to use alongside a Cali, rather than just using the Cali for everything. Based on the article, and some other assumptions:

Based on daily drive miles (ie not holidays, moving Aunt Mabel's sofa, etc): 10,000 pa
Cali emissions per mile: 211g (T6 148bhhp)
Small EV emissions per mile: 45g (from article, based on UK grid intensity)
Avoided emissions by using EV for 10k daily drive miles, per year: 1.7 tonnes approx
Embodied carbon for second car (small EV): 14 tonnes (from article)
Payback time: 8.2 years

Hmmm....
Hmmm...
Flying a classic car to New Zealand.
Smiles per emission : priceless.
;)
 
Calimili

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There is only one truth in this whole debate. Buy whatever form of bovine you like but the only certainty is that you are being conned. It matters not what cow you choose as there will always be endless opportunities to milk it.

Whether you decide to take the moral high road in your shiny new EV or keep plugging on in your old banger, you will be made to pay in every which way possible.

What is less clear is which form of cash cow is better for the environment? Don't be taken in by all the guff (opinions and figures), as they often eminate from sources that have some stake to hold. As for the government telling us what we can and cannot buy after 2030, that will certainly turn out to be yet another cretinous decision.
You are wasting your time saying this.
EVs have become a fanatic religion. It doesn‘t matter how many facts , actual data you bring into the discussion, people are infatuated with EVs they will not hear any reason. Oh… but the technology will be better, the battery will last longer, the infrastructure will be better, it‘s inevitable….
It is because this religion has grown so big that the idiot governments are making the unrealistic idiotic promises they make.
The high morality will bring jack untill you convince India and China they shouldn‘t pollute to become rich like we „west“ did the last 50 years when we also polluted to become rich.
There is a good news though: they finally manage to have a range extender for electric trucks. See pic.
1673727441383.jpeg
 
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