Which electric car to buy?

[kurienp]

I quite agree with you regarding making an informed choice but whilst the Stoke Sentinel is I am sure just the media to provide such in-depth exhaustive analysis the "researcher" needs to pay a little bit of care and attention to due diligence.

Firstly I would question the state of the car he is driving. If he spent £43.45 at £0.66 p perKwH then he's added around 65-66 KwH. If that only gives him 126 miles then that is less than 2 miles per Kw which is probably less than a lead-acid milk float used to get. I have been getting around 3.1 miles per KW in my fairly basic EV in similar circumstances of cold, wipers, lights and heater on.

Filling one vehicle up with supermarket fuel and filling another up with motorway services fuel will not be a valid cost comparison in any circumstance, be it diesel, petrol or electric fuel.

I also fail to understand the "Man was it stressful" comments when arriving at a refuelling point with 7% of available fuel left. It is equally stressful in any car, regardless of the fuel that they run on and, frankly, does not say much for the intelligence of the driver who at the flick of a finger could have asked the sat nav to take him to the nearest fuelling point when discomfort is first manifested. I have many times set off on a journey with intentions to refuel at point x only to discover en-route point x is not feasible. It is not a phenomenon solely limited to EV's.

I drive an EV simply because my personal circumstances, including my conscience, makes it viable for me to do so. I am under no illusions of their limitations, To work out the maths is not rocket science although the author of the learned work published appears to want to make it so.

@GrannyJen , sorry to say this ... that is like clutching at straws to make an argument for electric cars. In the larger scheme of things, petrol from the supermarket or motorway services will not make much of a difference. The numbers that he got are his - maybe he is not a good driver to get those numbers. I dread to think how he drives his diesel BMW and the amount of pollution that he would cause because of his driving style.

The fact is - electric cars require a different mindset and not and with their individual focus factors, leccy cars do not work for all.

I think the article was fairly balanced and real life experience. The summary was that with the elec car, he spent more time and more money to travel the same journey that he had done all these years in his polluting diesel. Don't think he had "saving the planet" on his mind (unfortunately like many people).

I too drive an EV because a) I can thankfully afford it b) I currently have low rate electricity. If my electricity prices increase, then the EV will be more expensive than a petrol car, but if I can afford it and do my little for the environment, I will continue to drive the electric car.

 

[GrannyJen]

@GrannyJen , sorry to say this ... that is like clutching at straws to make an argument for electric cars. In the larger scheme of things, petrol from the supermarket or motorway services will not make much of a difference. The numbers that he got are his - maybe he is not a good driver to get those numbers. I dread to think how he drives his diesel BMW and the amount of pollution that he would cause because of his driving style.

The fact is - electric cars require a different mindset and not and with their individual focus factors, leccy cars do not work for all.

I think the article was fairly balanced and real life experience. The summary was that with the elec car, he spent more time and more money to travel the same journey that he had done all these years in his polluting diesel. Don't think he had "saving the planet" on his mind (unfortunately like many people).

I too drive an EV because a) I can thankfully afford it b) I currently have low rate electricity. If my electricity prices increase, then the EV will be more expensive than a petrol car, but if I can afford it and do my little for the environment, I will continue to drive the electric car.

Grabbing at what straws?

I was pointing out inadequacies in the argument, as I stated, both in that reply and other replies, I am fully aware that they are not a panacea nor suitable for all.

to be claiming a consumption of less than 2 miles per Kw for a modern EV whilst achieving a 55 mph in a BMW suggests an inaccuracy in calculation somewhere.

 

[GrannyJen]

As a retired Fellow of the Royal Society of Chemistry and Fellow of the Institute of Materials a Chartered Engineer and Chartered Chemist I need no lecturing as to what constitutes a learned journal or learned research.

In which case why publish something where the presentation is clearly flawed?

 

[Wildcamper]

In which case why publish something where the presentation is clearly flawed?

As you will notice I made no comment re the Stoke media article. My role was no more than "postman". It is up to readers to make up their own minds without interpretation from others. You suggest I published the article. Well it will come as no surprise that I am not the author and have no connection with the "publisher". Postman yes, publishers no.

 

[Wildcamper]

Biggest electric car complaints from charging to costs - Times Money Mentor

From broken and missing electric car charging points to malfunctioning and mis-sold vehicles, Martyn James explains your rights

www.thetimes.co.uk

 

[GrannyJen]

As you will notice I made no comment re the Stoke media article. My role was no more than "postman". It is up to readers to make up their own minds without interpretation from others. You suggest I published the article. Well it will come as no surprise that I am not the author and have no connection with the "publisher". Postman yes, publishers no.

Fair comment.

Frankly I have probably over-dieted on hack journalism which I think only serves to pollute already muddy waters.

 

[chockswahay]

runs and environmental business requiring significant travel to talk with clients.

Well there's an Oxymoron!

 

[Lambeth Cali]

@Wildcamper
start a thread called “All I am saying is EVs do not work for all”
@kurienp will join you.
or perhaps a thread called “one of my neighbours is a burk!”
We are capable of reading articles about electric cars ourselves. If we want your learned advice we can ask for it or read the Smethwick Telegraph and Argus or whatever.

It is not what this thread is for.

 

[kurienp]

@Wildcamper
start a thread called “All I am saying is EVs do not work for all”
@kurienp will join you.
or perhaps a thread called “one of my neighbours is a burk!”
We are capable of reading articles about electric cars ourselves. If we want your learned advice we can ask for it or read the Smethwick Telegraph and Argus or whatever.

It is not what this thread is for.

Well, I thought the whole idea was to discuss " which electric car to buy" ? and to take that decision people need to know the pros and cons from articles, from youtube videos and from people who use them? Well, I think that's what we are doing here ? : dunno:

Btw, I am an electric car user so nothing against them, just sharing my knowledge. Take it if you want to ... otherwise ignore. Simples I guess ...

 

[Lambeth Cali]

There will be hundreds of articles criticising electric cars for the next ten years. It’s virtually an industry in itself. Just stick them somewhere else. He keeps doing it, and many feel obliged to correct climate sceptic BS.

It’s “which electric car to buy” not “shall I buy an electric car?”.

You would have to be clueless (or Wildcamper’s neighbour) to not know the charging network in the UK is pretty terrible unless you own a Tesla.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

As you will notice I made no comment re the Stoke media article. My role was no more than "postman". It is up to readers to make up their own minds without interpretation from others. You suggest I published the article. Well it will come as no surprise that I am not the author and have no connection with the "publisher". Postman yes, publishers no.

By the way, in the eyes of the law, re-posting is publishing. Riley and others v Heybroek.

 

[WelshGas]

There will be hundreds of articles criticising electric cars for the next ten years. It’s virtually an industry in itself. Just stick them somewhere else. He keeps doing it, and many feel obliged to correct climate sceptic BS.

It’s “which electric car to buy” not “shall I buy an electric car?”.

You would have to be clueless (or Wildcamper’s neighbour) to not know the charging network in the UK is pretty terrible unless you own a Tesla.

It seems EV fanboys don't like any form of criticism or facts contrary to their own beliefs.

 

[kurienp]

There will be hundreds of articles criticising electric cars for the next ten years. It’s virtually an industry in itself. Just stick them somewhere else. He keeps doing it, and many feel obliged to correct climate sceptic BS.

It’s “which electric car to buy” not “shall I buy an electric car?”.

You would have to be clueless (or Wildcamper’s neighbour) to not know the charging network in the UK is pretty terrible unless you own a Tesla.

Yeah, it is a Tesla. So pretty spoilt by the charging network.

 

[willwander]

It seems EV fanboys don't like any form of criticism or facts contrary to their own beliefs.

There’s quite a few people like that

 

[Calimili]

I think the title of this thread is way too vague and therefore pointless. If there was a thread titled "Which ICE car to buy" it would be equally nonsense. Cars come in different sizes, comfort/luxury levels, budgets and function with 2/4/5/6/7 seats, big or smaller boots. Family of 5 will not choose a Boxter, a sales representative travelling 200mi a day will rather look for a premium sedan rather than a small Twingo.
Why should the EV car selection be any different ? (Un)fortunately the current offer and technology available is somewhat limited. Current EVs don't offer the full range of options ICEs do, especially when it comes down to range, recharge times, margin of safety/peace of mind of range left (which it is was it is referred in the article).
Certainly EVs for daily in town commuting do work. With no few restrictions and planning ahead they may work also for a longer trip . At the moment i see them only fit for daily in town errands and only provided you can charge them at home.
And by the way, I'd never be comfortable arriving to a refuelling sation with 7% left. 7% equates to 15-20 miles. I've never driven any ICE car down to that little range left. I can totally feel the nervousness of the journalist, driving along the motorway with that much left just to make it to the station hoping there isn't an issue with the station as you won't make it anywhere else.

 

[Wildcamper]

How power costs have sent the electric vehicle revolution into reverse

Heading to Blackpool to attend an awards ceremony, businesswoman Sophie Preston-Hall not only arrived late, but barely had time to get dressed.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Velma's Dad]

I don't think this thread is pointless, there have been some nuggets here and there. But on this particular topic there's inevitably going to be a lot of wider debate poked in there beyind whether a Tesla is better than a Polestar.

I might suggest that if anyone is just going to be the "postman" for an article, whether it's from the Sheepsbreath Argus or the Proceedings of the Society of Extremely Clever Bods, it would often be helpful (and maybe also courteous) to give the rest of us a brief comment of what aspects of the piece seem to the poster to be particularly relevant or interesting in the context of this thread, to save us from having to plough through yards of gutter journalism or closely-argued academic discourse.

 

[chockswahay]

The original poster @philipcon started this thread with a few simple questions relevant to his particular need....... it has escalated from there and divided into two camps..... for and against EV's.

I like the idea of EV's for all the good reasons often cited and yet I also don't warm to the idea of EV's for many of the reasons also cited.

We are looking for a small car to replace our ageing Peugeot 107 and compliment our Cali (actually much as the original 1st post) yet the closer I get to buying an EV the further away i diverge.

We would like an electric campervan as our sole vehicle yet nothing suitable exists presently. Even then I share the same fear and concern over range and residual values as many others on here do. I also confess that it is very difficult to get excited about the prospect of making the 600 mile each way trip to see our family when we would have to keep chancing our luck with multiple charging stops at chargers that may or may not be working or even available. We drove to Cornwall last week in one single journey with just 3 short stops, all done in 12 hours door to door, I can't see that being feasible in an EV.

I haven't even mentioned the price per mile which only a year or so ago was very competitive yet now is on a par or even more expensive than diesel. I think when there was a clear saving to be made it softened the blow for perhaps early adoption of an EV.

For now? We will stick will our diesel Cali and maybe get a small 2nd hand EV for running around the block....... or maybe not? Yup, it is a moral and ethical dilemma as well as a financial one

 

[Velma's Dad]

The original poster @philipcon started this thread with a few simple questions relevant to his particular need....... it has escalated from there and divided into two camps..... for and against EV's.

I like the idea of EV's for all the good reasons often cited and yet I also don't warm to the idea of EV's for many of the reasons also cited. ...

I am also swithering, although it's a non-urgent swither as our daily-driver cars are not due for replacement for a couple of years.

We'd still use our Cali for long trips, and our mileages on most days are well within EV range. But last week a neighbour (who's on his second EV) mentioned a trip up to the NEC, less than 100 miles each way so something I don't really think of as in the long distance category and would expect an EV to be fine for. But they ended up getting stuck in a big M40 holdup on the way back in the cold and rain, and limped home with 7 miles range showing.

I'm pretty sure we will still go for at least one EV at next car change, but I must admit that single anecdote did make me ponder.

 

[GrannyJen]

I am also swithering, although it's a non-urgent swither as our daily-driver cars are not due for replacement for a couple of years.

We'd still use our Cali for long trips, and our mileages on most days are well within EV range. But last week a neighbour (who's on his second EV) mentioned a trip up to the NEC, less than 100 miles each way so something I don't really think of as in the long distance category and would expect an EV to be fine for. But they ended up getting stuck in a big M40 holdup on the way back in the cold and rain, and limped home with 7 miles range showing.

I'm pretty sure we will still go for at least one EV at next car change, but I must admit that single anecdote did make me ponder.

I came home from Christchurch the other day, plenty in the batteries to get me home .... until a wrong turn on a roundabout saw me going 7 miles in the wrong direction before I could do a U turn. I still got home with miles to spare but for a while I was thinking of stopping off at Sainsbury's to do 30 minutes of non-essential shopping.

 

[soulstyledevon]

I remember on one occasion driving back from the continent, I thought I would see if I could make it home on the same tank of fuel.
The satnav reported 175 miles as i disembarked the tunnel and my fuel tank said about 195 miles.
So I thought it was do-able.
The last 30 miles were some of the most stressful I’ve ever driven. As I passed the last motorway service between the point I was driving and home, I soon realised I’d quacked up.
Driving along the final A road to home the fuel tank range plunged to 0 and I still had about 8 miles left to drive.
The wife had many words for me, I obviously brushed them off, but secretly, I knew I was airing on the side of stupidity.
I made it back home with zero range in the tank.

The moral of the story is, you can be a bit of a plonker testing the range of any vehicle, diesel or EV.
I would say, the majority of these EV stories are bell ends like me taking a chance instead of doing the sensible thing and topping up for 10 minutes…

 

[Wildcamper]

I don't think this thread is pointless, there have been some nuggets here and there. But on this particular topic there's inevitably going to be a lot of wider debate poked in there beyind whether a Tesla is better than a Polestar.

I might suggest that if anyone is just going to be the "postman" for an article, whether it's from the Sheepsbreath Argus or the Proceedings of the Society of Extremely Clever Bods, it would often be helpful (and maybe also courteous) to give the rest of us a brief comment of what aspects of the piece seem to the poster to be particularly relevant or interesting in the context of this thread, to save us from having to plough through yards of gutter journalism or closely-argued academic discourse.

Disagree. In all articles of these type the primary data has been interpreted by some unknown number of people. Deliberate or otherwise every interpretation comes with added bias, opinion or whatever. Is it not better to provide access to an article, those that wish to read will and those that are not interested will not? Those that do read can then come to their own conclusion. As already mentioned, news paper articles are not the best source of research material but in many cases for the general public they may be their only source. I am very lucky in that I can, without charge, access primary research publications. The general public can but each article may well cost the £20+. So in my opinion it is best, if one is going to do it at all, simply provide a link. The reader can then decide how to view the article without yet another layer of bias.

 

[westfalia]

For town and city usage only I think I would choose the Honda nut I'd have a look
at the Fiat too.
I'd have to test drive them back to back.


BMW I3 would also be a contender.

For longer trips I think I'd have a Tesla S

 

[chockswahay]

I don’t like the Honda, can’t tell the front from the back!

 

[Winston Rumfoord]

It feels like so many people have to take an extreme position on things with little attempt to understand the view of others. Be it EV / ICE, leave / remain, beach / ocean, etc. Not specific to this forum but just a sad reflection of our society.