Which electric car to buy?

[Wildcamper]

You make it sound like it's all some megalomaniacal master plan. Governments can only respond, as best they can, to profound long-run shifts in demographics, social attitudes and preferences, and (crucially) technological developments.

Since 1900 the percentage of the UK population living in urban areas has increased from about 30% to more than 80% today, due to those inexorable shifts in economic and social structures.

If you're worried about food security, that doesn't require a large rural population. Currently only about 1% of the UK working population are needed to farm the 70% of the UK's land that is designated as agricultural, and that labour need will fall further with progressive farm mechanisation. So there's no pressing economic need to have a large proportion of the population living in the countryside. If they want to live there, fine, but I don't see why electorates of the future will want to subsidise them to do so.

Of course urban livers should subsidise the countryside. Why? Because they like it and use it for their enjoyment. Perfectly evident from the hundreds (thousands?) of cars one sees parked ( often negligently) at places such as Snowdonia, Penny Fan, Derbyshire dales etc. Their owners using and enjoying the open spaces yet bringing marginal benefit to those areas and communities. It often all take and no give by the "townies"!

 

[Amarillo]

Of course urban livers should subsidise the countryside. Why? Because they like it and use it for their enjoyment. Perfectly evident from the hundreds (thousands?) of cars one sees parked ( often negligently) at places such as Snowdonia, Penny Fan, Derbyshire dales etc. Their owners using and enjoying the open spaces yet bringing marginal benefit to those areas and communities. It often all take and no give by the "townies"!

If the number of parked cars are an indicator of “enjoyment” Heathrow Airport must top the list, followed by almost any IKEA. Snowdon and Pen y Fan come a long way down the list.

Personally, I do enjoy Snowdon and Pen y Fan far more than Heathrow or IKEA, but am just making the point that parked cars are no indicator.

 

[Wildcamper]

If the number of parked cars are an indicator of “enjoyment” Heathrow Airport must top the list, followed by almost any IKEA. Snowdon and Pen y Fan come a long way down the list.

Personally, I do enjoy Snowdon and Pen y Fan far more than Heathrow or IKEA, but am just making the point that parked cars are no indicator.

True. The point is to show that "townies" use the countryside and pay very little towards its maintenance. If the "townies" don't want to subsidize the countryside then can I opt out of subsidising the extensive public transport in towns that are of no use to me?

 

[Digger]

If you feel strongly in support of restricted budgets for road building/ maintenance fine. As for stretches of the NC500 make sure you have a spare wheel as you will need it this year due to erosion and pot holes. Maybe restrict your travels too and thus help the global warming which unless India , China and the USA follows suit, we are kidding ourselves. We will never have public transport of good coverage - except in the cities and heavily populated areas - so we need personal transport. Walking miles to an irregular bus service or far more for a train is not my idea of a good quality of life. There is no easy answer but maybe suggest no tourist traffic

 

[sidepod]

Thank fook I’ll be worm food by the time this all happens.

 

[Amarillo]

True. The point is to show that "townies" use the countryside and pay very little towards its maintenance. If the "townies" don't want to subsidize the countryside then can I opt out of subsidising the extensive public transport in towns that are of no use to me?

An interesting thought. Who subsidises who most: town dwellers or rural dwellers?

I know, for example, that Londoners and the South East are net contributors to the exchequer whereas most other regions are net beneficiaries. But I don’t know the rural urban split.

 

[Velma's Dad]

An interesting thought. Who subsidises who most: town dwellers or rural dwellers?

I know, for example, that Londoners and the South East are net contributors to the exchequer whereas most other regions are net beneficiaries. But I don’t know the rural urban split.

Leaving aside the SE/Rest of UK factor, in general I've seen figures than rural areas comprise less than 20% of the national economy, which is lower per head than urban dwellers. Also, it's reasonable to assume that providing public services in towns and cities is cheaper than in the countryside although again I don't have figures.

It's skewed also by the fact that older people (esp. retired) are much more likely to live in rural areas (esp. in/near National Parks, AONBs and the coast) than younger people.

 

[soulstyledevon]

The 15 minute City, is the future…

 

[Wildcamper]

The 15 minute City, is the future…

Really! Just announced that in Bristol, Somerset and Bath &NE Somerset bus services have been dramatically reduced over the last few years (up to 40%). People are now trapped (almost) in their villages. So much for enticing people to give up their cars, electric (assuming one can find a charging point - good luck with that one) or ICE. The 15 min city will never happen.

 

[Wildcamper]

Mass protest in Oxford against the 15 min city

 

[Lambeth Cali]

Mass protest in Oxford against the 15 min city

There will always be protests.
Not a reason not to do something.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

Anyway…

Back to Which Electric Car to Buy

I’ve been agonising about the twice a year 100 mile journey my wife does to see friends (and get away from me). This has lead me to BMW i3 and Mazda MX30 range extenders.

I’ve dismissed hybrids as don’t want to pay to service an engine that I’ll hardly ever use. But then range extenders don’t qualify as zero pollution so you lose some tax benefits and free travel into some cities. Then, I decided that actuality those tax benefits are almost negligible compared with purchase price.

Now I’ve come around to thinking I might keep our 2008 Golf Gti as a future classic and for the wife’s bi annual escapes. It’s probably worth approximately £6k and so I would have no trade in but that would allow me to get a full BEV. Probably a 4 year old i3 or a year old MX30. I love the futuristic i3 exterior and lounge interior. Loads on Cinch.

I do love the Golf and it does fit 4 people and 2 large suitcases or a cello! Worth keeping.

I will have changed my mind by next week. 3 vehicle family!!??

 

[Azteccamper]

Anyway…

Back to Which Electric Car to Buy

I’ve been agonising about the twice a year 100 mile journey my wife does to see friends (and get away from me). This has lead me to BMW i3 and Mazda MX30 range extenders.

I’ve dismissed hybrids as don’t want to pay to service an engine that I’ll hardly ever use. But then range extenders don’t qualify as zero pollution so you lose some tax benefits at free travel into some cities. Then, I decided that actuality those tax benefits are almost negligible compared with purchase price.

Now I’ve come around to thinking I might keep our 2008 Golf Gti as a future classic and for the wife’s bi annual escapes. It’s probably worth approximately £6k and so I would have no trade in but that would allow me to get a full BEV. Probably a 4 year old i3 or a year old MX30. I love the futuristic i3 exterior and lounge interior. Loads on Cinch.

I do love the Golf and it does fit 4 people and 2 large suitcases or a cello! Worth keeping.

I will have changed my mind by next week. 3 vehicle family!!??

Just hire a car when she needs to escape?

 

[Lambeth Cali]

Just hire a car when she needs to escape?

Well, there is one parked on a drive 10 doors down.

 

[2into1]

I’ve been agonising about the twice a year 100 mile journey my wife does

Really, "agonising"?
I've just shared this link on the "is the tide turning against ev's" thread, but this gap that's being created (by all these policies) between the haves and the have nots, is huge.

We need more sympathy for the poor sod on minimum wage wondering how he'll get to his night shift in the expanded ulez, and frankly less subsidies for those able to fine tune their fleets around 2 trips a year.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

Wow, what’s the view like from up there?

On a thread called Which Electric Car Should I Buy? I dared discuss buying a 4 year old electric car.

As for ULEZ, where I live, the pollution is so high, 20% of strokes can be attributed to it. To quote Sadiq Khan "What is the right number of people to die a year to make it acceptable?"

As for the pound shop Harry Metcalfe, I didn’t bother.

I bought my Golf new in 2008 and my Cali used in 2009. 14 years ago.

Jog on.

 

[Amarillo]

Really, "agonising"?
I've just shared this link on the "is the tide turning against ev's" thread, but this gap that's being created (by all these policies) between the haves and the have nots, is huge.

We need more sympathy for the poor sod on minimum wage wondering how he'll get to his night shift in the expanded ulez, and frankly less subsidies for those able to fine tune their fleets around 2 trips a year.

When I worked nights many decades ago I either cycled to/from work or took the night bus. The last train home left Charing Cross at 01:02 and the first train left at 04:33. Few night workers will begin/end their shifts between those hours. And those who do, casino croupiers, night club bar staff, etc, will be provided with a taxi home by their employer.

Some underground lines now have a night tube. Other rail lines, such as ThamesLink, run a limited service through the night.

I’ve had a look at options if I chose to travel now, 01:30, to Soho. Three public transport options pop up.

And yes, I live between the current ULEZ and the expanded ULEZ.

 

[soulstyledevon]

The 15 min city will never happen.

I disagree.
Traffic congestion is now so bad, and not just confined to big cities, that radical change will be the next big step.
Having everything within a smaller area will work for the majority of people.

Thankfully, I live in a nice part of the world. 90% of what I need is within 5 miles.
Other than travelling for work (I don’t have the ability to work from home, although it’s slowly changing) and pleasure trips. I’m more than happy within my confines…

 

[Azteccamper]

I live on a little road with 10 houses - 8 occupied by couples who have retired /semi retired. Every house has 2 cars of which at least one is rarely used. So I had a plan! We all get rid of our 2nd cars and pool in to buy one street community car that we all have access to. I offered to do all the admin and up front costs and keep the car on our driveway and manage its usage - charging its use by the mile. All costs (service, insurance, etc) would be split.
I know it will need a bit of organisation and there might be the odd occasion when it won’t be available to individuals, but remember this is a 2nd vehicle.
Brilliant idea they all said.
But no interest in doing it!
So changing hearts and minds about car ownership and usage is a tough one.

 

[hirsty]

I live on a little road with 10 houses - 8 occupied by couples who have retired /semi retired. Every house has 2 cars of which at least one is rarely used. So I had a plan! We all get rid of our 2nd cars and pool in to buy one street community car that we all have access to. I offered to do all the admin and up front costs and keep the car on our driveway and manage its usage - charging its use by the mile. All costs (service, insurance, etc) would be split.
I know it will need a bit of organisation and there might be the odd occasion when it won’t be available to individuals, but remember this is a 2nd vehicle.
Brilliant idea they all said.
But no interest in doing it!
So changing hearts and minds about car ownership and usage is a tough one.

I can see issues with that (insurance, cleaning etc) not least uneven usage & also availability divided 8-ways etc, but the concept is admirable. We're in an urban area & there are two rental Toyota Yaris at the end of the road if we were going to go that way.

I did see a YouTube video recently made by a Finn who'd lived in Canada and made a film on the differences - the one that struck me most was a communal shed between neighbours with a single ladder / lawnmower / hedge trimmer etc that they all pooled & paid for the upkeep / replacement of, rather than having one of each item barely used in every household ...

 

[soulstyledevon]

I live on a little road with 10 houses - 8 occupied by couples who have retired /semi retired. Every house has 2 cars of which at least one is rarely used. So I had a plan! We all get rid of our 2nd cars and pool in to buy one street community car that we all have access to. I offered to do all the admin and up front costs and keep the car on our driveway and manage its usage - charging its use by the mile. All costs (service, insurance, etc) would be split.
I know it will need a bit of organisation and there might be the odd occasion when it won’t be available to individuals, but remember this is a 2nd vehicle.
Brilliant idea they all said.
But no interest in doing it!
So changing hearts and minds about car ownership and usage is a tough one.

We have one in our town, which we seriously considered. Unfortunately it costs quite a bit to use a car. I think we found a local rental car cheaper than using the scheme…
Shame, it’s a nice idea.

 

[Amarillo]

We have one in our town, which we seriously considered. Unfortunately it costs quite a bit to use a car. I think we found a local rental car cheaper than using the scheme…
Shame, it’s a nice idea.

We have about a dozen ZipCars within a one mile radius.
Rates:
- £0 per month plus £9 per hour/£85 per day, or;
- £6 per month plus £7 per hour/£68 per day (first hour each month £1), or;
- £15 per month plus £6 per hr/£60 per day (first 2hr 30 included each month)

Hire car/Taxi/bus cost comparison for taking mum out to lunch
3 hours ZipCar (30m driving each way plus 2h lunch) : £27 on the £0 plan
6.5 miles each way (£7 first 1.5 miles plus £2.20 per mile) : £36 by taxi
Bus fare (£1.65 each way, mum uses her pass) : £3.30 by bus

 

[WestSussexSpike]

Anyway…

Back to Which Electric Car to Buy

I’ve been agonising about the twice a year 100 mile journey my wife does to see friends (and get away from me). This has lead me to BMW i3 and Mazda MX30 range extenders.

I’ve dismissed hybrids as don’t want to pay to service an engine that I’ll hardly ever use. But then range extenders don’t qualify as zero pollution so you lose some tax benefits and free travel into some cities. Then, I decided that actuality those tax benefits are almost negligible compared with purchase price.

Now I’ve come around to thinking I might keep our 2008 Golf Gti as a future classic and for the wife’s bi annual escapes. It’s probably worth approximately £6k and so I would have no trade in but that would allow me to get a full BEV. Probably a 4 year old i3 or a year old MX30. I love the futuristic i3 exterior and lounge interior. Loads on Cinch.

I do love the Golf and it does fit 4 people and 2 large suitcases or a cello! Worth keeping.

I will have changed my mind by next week. 3 vehicle family!!??

Up until a week ago, as a family, we ran two electric cars (a BMW i3 and a Polestar) alongside our Cali, The i3 came to the end of its 18 month contact hire period so I handed it back to the Contract Hire company. I was curious to see what it was actually worth, so I We Buy Any Car'd it. I was amazed that the value came out at £16,500 (21 Plate with only 6,000 miles on the clock). This valuation seems to reflect the general downward trend of BEV values. However, it means that it is likely to retail at under £20,000. At this sort of price an i3 is a great proposition. If you can live with a real world range of around 140-160 miles, it is a really smart, comfortable option which costs pennies to run (if you charge it at home).

 

[Calimili]

So this thread is converging to an interesting proposition and reasonable future forecast. The theme is that we will all live in big towns and use electric cars. This makes sense as to move within the town, even if as big as London, any EV will be good for that rangewise. As already mentioned there are also already successful car-sharing schemes which will allow you to have pretty much a car available at all time around your area, offering an economical advantage vs ownership as you won't have to worry of parking permit or owning a garage, no insurance/road tax/servicing/depreciation/MOT/ tyres let alone financing it. You pay as you go. Air will be clean because we all drive electric, no need to go to the countryside as it will just be covered in solar panels and wind generators to produce the massive electricity requirement from our conversion to EVs. Trains and a network of chargers from locally produced electricity will allow to move from one town to another cross country without emitting a gram of Co2. At least not around here. Also the reduction in noise pollution is a nice side benefit.
Question though.. what do we eat if we are covering the land with solar panels (and we will need a lot of them) ? Can we farm on the same land where we plant solar ? can we drive through rows of panels with tractors and combines?

 

[Corradobrit]

So this thread is converging to an interesting proposition and reasonable future forecast. The theme is that we will all live in big towns and use electric cars. This makes sense as to move within the town, even if as big as London, any EV will be good for that rangewise. As already mentioned there are also already successful car-sharing schemes which will allow you to have pretty much a car available at all time around your area, offering an economical advantage vs ownership as you won't have to worry of parking permit or owning a garage, no insurance/road tax/servicing/depreciation/MOT/ tyres let alone financing it. You pay as you go. Air will be clean because we all drive electric, no need to go to the countryside as it will just be covered in solar panels and wind generators to produce the massive electricity requirement from our conversion to EVs. Trains and a network of chargers from locally produced electricity will allow to move from one town to another cross country without emitting a gram of Co2. At least not around here. Also the reduction in noise pollution is a nice side benefit.
Question though.. what do we eat if we are covering the land with solar panels (and we will need a lot of them) ? Can we farm on the same land where we plant solar ? can we drive through rows of panels with tractors and combines?

Solar ain't gonna cut it in the UK. With the Uk only receiving an average of 1500 hours sunshine per year, assuming 10 hours per day, that equates to 150 days when the sun is generating electrical output. What about the other 215 days?

Nope, solar farms in space is the only option

How solar farms in space might beam electricity to Earth

The UK government is supporting projects to put solar panels in space and beam energy back to Earth.

www.bbc.com