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Corradobrit

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Some info on China’s nuclear power ambitions.

===

China has 55 plants with 57GW in operation, 22 under construction with 24 GW and more than 70 planned with 88GW.

===

So assuming planning to going online for nuclear power is fifteen years, by 2038, China will go from 57GW of nuclear power to 169GW. A tripling.
I'm old enough to remember the heated discussions in the 80's and 90's about all those spent radioactive fuel rods and waste materials that will remain a hazard to human health for 100,000 plus years. And their safe transport to those storage facilities. Never hear that discussion anymore so I guess they figured it out......right.
 
soulstyledevon

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Nuclear fusion is around the corner and will answer all of our future energy needs.
 
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Lambeth Cali

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The whole Hydrogen thing does seem to take over people’s minds.

There’s letters in today’s Guardian saying we should ditch electric cars. One claims Germany should stop making electric cars as developing countries will never be able to afford the vehicles and infrastructure required.

There seems something about hydrogen that creates a “I’m right, they’re wrong mentality”. Are they breathing it in!?
 
clarinetbcn

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I'm old enough to remember the heated discussions in the 80's and 90's about all those spent radioactive fuel rods and waste materials that will remain a hazard to human health for 100,000 plus years. And their safe transport to those storage facilities. Never hear that discussion anymore so I guess they figured it out......right.
It’s a half-life of 250,000 years, which means that after 250,000 years half the toxic waste will have been degraded, in another 250,000 years half of what is left will degrade, and after 250,000 years half of that, etc. It is probably the most immoral action the 20th century has taken, and it hasn’t been solved. No one now alive can guarantee that the toxic waste we create in exchange for 40-50 years of generating electricity will be safeguarded for the millions of years that it will be deadly to all biological life. So we selfishly take our benefit and pass the toxic trash on to future generations to deal with. The only “bright” side is that at our current rate of fouling our own nest, we will bring about the extinction of the human race before future generations can criticize us for dumping nuclear waste on them.
 
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Lambeth Cali

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The free world needs to be worried!
I think you’re a little bit behind the curve here. China spent $1 trillion on Belt and Road building ports, train lines, roads and airports. USA spent approximately $1 trillion in Iraq and Afghanistan. For what result?

The old joke is “the Americans give us a lecture, the Chinese give us an airport“. That joke is at least ten years old.

Why do you think the Chinese built this stuff? To ship us cars etc etc etc.

Just a side point here. If Chinese factories spew out CO2 building us cars and iPhones, I personally don’t think we can count that as just their CO2. It’s a little bit like London blaming Yorkshire for Drax power station’s CO2. I’m sure you agree.
 
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I think you’re a little bit behind the curve here. China spent $1 trillion on Belt and Road building ports, train lines, roads and airports. USA spent approximately $1 trillion in Iraq and Afghanistan. For what result?

The old joke is “the Americans give us a lecture, the Chinese give us an airport“. That joke is at least ten years old.

Why do you think the Chinese built this stuff? To ship us cars etc etc etc.

Just a side point here. If Chinese factories spew out CO2 building us cars and iPhones, I personally don’t think we can count that as just their CO2. It’s a little bit like London blaming Yorkshire for Drax power station’s CO2. I’m sure you agree.

CO2 by production or CO2 by consumption?

It is a difficult question.

If we only consider CO2 by consumption, it is people writing social media chat messages on their iPhones who are responsible for the Chinese using dirty coal to power their iPhone factories.

But if we only consider CO2 by production, the person using their iPhones have no responsibility for the energy used to produce their iPhone.

Personally I think both measures should be considered side by side.
 
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I think you’re a little bit behind the curve here. China spent $1 trillion on Belt and Road building ports, train lines, roads and airports. USA spent approximately $1 trillion in Iraq and Afghanistan. For what result?

The old joke is “the Americans give us a lecture, the Chinese give us an airport“. That joke is at least ten years old.

Why do you think the Chinese built this stuff? To ship us cars etc etc etc.

Just a side point here. If Chinese factories spew out CO2 building us cars and iPhones, I personally don’t think we can count that as just their CO2. It’s a little bit like London blaming Yorkshire for Drax power station’s CO2. I’m sure you agree.
You may have already listened, but this is an excellent series.

 
Lambeth Cali

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CO2 by production or CO2 by consumption?

It is a difficult question.

If we only consider CO2 by consumption, it is people writing social media chat messages on their iPhones who are responsible for the Chinese using dirty coal to power their iPhone factories.

But if we only consider CO2 by production, the person using their iPhones have no responsibility for the energy used to produce their iPhone.

Personally I think both measures should be considered side by side.
I certainly think that if we are buying the stuff made in the factories then we hold some responsibility for the CO2.

In a world driven by money and consumerism the country making all the stuff was eventually going to start becoming powerful. This is why we hear all this anti-China guff. People have realised that they are winning.

I personally don’t believe if I buy a WiFi fridge that the Chinese will use it to spy on me. I do believe that the USA is very very unhappy that TikTok has overtaken Facebook and YouTube. Meanwhile they are about to re-elect a stupid criminal as president. AGAIN.
 
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Amarillo

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I certainly think that if we are buying the stuff made in the factories then we hold some responsibility for the CO2.

In a world driven by money and consumerism the country making all the stuff was eventually going to start becoming powerful. This is why we hear all this anti-China guff. People have realised that they are winning.

I personally don’t believe if I buy a WiFi fridge that the Chinese will use it to spy on me. I do believe that the USA is very very unhappy that TikTok has overtaken Facebook and YouTube. Meanwhile they are about to re-elect a stupid criminal as president. AGAIN.

Some interesting data and explanations here (if you like data).

 
Wildcamper

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Sunday Times Sept 17.
"China is using every trick for world domination"

Who's behind the curve!!

Add in their war mongering re Taiwan, the South China Sea and support for Putin's actions in Ukraine. Then add their stance on human rights and ignoring their pledge on Hong Kong. The list is very long - will stop here. The Belt Road and their investments in "green stuff" is not for global benefit but "solely" to benefit the dream of world domination.
 
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Sunday Times Sept 17.
"China is using every trick for world domination"

Who's behind the curve!!

Add in their war mongering re Taiwan, the South China Sea and support for Putin's actions in Ukraine. Then add their stance on human rights and ignoring their pledge on Hong Kong. The list is very long - will stop here. The Belt Road and their investments in "green stuff" is not for global benefit but "solely" to benefit the dream of world domination.
I’m not saying I approve of everything they do. Playing devil’s advocate perhaps.

I think they’re enjoying making tonnes of stuff for us. They no longer have to do what the US tells them. The World Bank seem to approve of China lifting 850 million people out of extreme poverty.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_China#:~:text=Poverty%20reduction,-See%20also%3A%20Moderately&text=China's%20lifting%20of%20more%20than,in%20inequality%20in%20modern%20history.&text=The%20whole%20reform%20program%20is,the%20%22open%20door%20policy%22.

Meanwhile in 2016 the US voted in Trump and we voted to screw our economy.

It’s not just that China is winning. We are doing a great job of losing. We need to stop doing that.

Remember when Biden went to visit the murderous Saudi defacto King and asked him to pump more oil and he told him to get lost? That was a pivotal moment.
 
Wildcamper

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I’m not saying I approve of everything they do. Playing devil’s advocate perhaps.

I think they’re enjoying making tonnes of stuff for us. They no longer have to do what the US tells them. The World Bank seem to approve of China lifting 850 million people out of extreme poverty.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_China#:~:text=Poverty%20reduction,-See%20also%3A%20Moderately&text=China's%20lifting%20of%20more%20than,in%20inequality%20in%20modern%20history.&text=The%20whole%20reform%20program%20is,the%20%22open%20door%20policy%22.

Meanwhile in 2016 the US voted in Trump and we voted to screw our economy.

It’s not just that China is winning. We are doing a great job of losing. We need to stop doing that.

Remember when Biden went to visit the murderous Saudi defacto King and asked him to pump more oil and he told him to get lost? That was a pivotal moment.
Agree with much of your post. You say "we need to stop doing that" - 100% with you. For me the best answer we have as meer individuals is to stop purchasing their products. Ever Pound we spend with them props up that regime. When India was pushing for independence one of their best "weapons" was "Home Spun" it caused a lot of damage to the UK's textile manufacturing base. Sometimes it is beneficial to go backwards before carrying on going forwards. The Free World is not without it's problems but we do have the ability to vote out those we don't like - most of the time.
Maybe we are both on the same curve but at different points on that curve.
 
soulstyledevon

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But hold on.
The Americans are on the cusp of voting in that idiot for a second time.
Once he’s in, and stops further support to the Ukraine, the Russians will have a green light to the rest of Europe…

Then what…???

The China thing can wait, there’s more pressing issues to contend with at the minute…
 
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Agree with much of your post. You say "we need to stop doing that" - 100% with you. For me the best answer we have as meer individuals is to stop purchasing their products. Ever Pound we spend with them props up that regime. When India was pushing for independence one of their best "weapons" was "Home Spun" it caused a lot of damage to the UK's textile manufacturing base. Sometimes it is beneficial to go backwards before carrying on going forwards. The Free World is not without it's problems but we do have the ability to vote out those we don't like - most of the time.
Maybe we are both on the same curve but at different points on that curve.
Very difficult to not buy products that don’t have at least some Chinese made parts. Our California vans are probably full of Chinese components/assemblies/sub-assemblies. If they turned off the supply of electronic chips tomorrow the West would be stuffed.

We sold Cambridge based ARM to a Japanese company a while back and it’s recently floated on the NASDAQ. We need to stop selling our Crown Jewels to other countries.

Never been a big fan of globalisation. It leaves countries very vulnerable if things go wrong.
 
Wildcamper

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Very difficult to not buy products that don’t have at least some Chinese made parts. Our California vans are probably full of Chinese components/assemblies/sub-assemblies. If they turned off the supply of electronic chips tomorrow the West would be stuffed.

We sold Cambridge based ARM to a Japanese company a while back and it’s recently floated on the NASDAQ. We need to stop selling our Crown Jewels to other countries.

Never been a big fan of globalisation. It leaves countries very vulnerable if things go wrong.
Fully agree. Disengaging from China will be expensive, take time and present challenges. The freedoms we enjoy are not free or low cost.
 
Lambeth Cali

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Agree with much of your post. You say "we need to stop doing that" - 100% with you. For me the best answer we have as meer individuals is to stop purchasing their products. Ever Pound we spend with them props up that regime. When India was pushing for independence one of their best "weapons" was "Home Spun" it caused a lot of damage to the UK's textile manufacturing base. Sometimes it is beneficial to go backwards before carrying on going forwards. The Free World is not without it's problems but we do have the ability to vote out those we don't like - most of the time.
Maybe we are both on the same curve but at different points on that curve.
Also broadly agree with you. It’s just a shame that our democracy has gifted us such terrible results imho.
 
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It can be quite hard to "buy British", or, "Buy as long as it's from a democracy" and it is a backward step. If we value our democracy then we must be prepared to step backwards. It has a cost but often we can adapt to those costs.

However it involves a sense of will from the individual, a sense of unity from the community and a strategy from our leaders. As a country forget about the last bit and rue the rewards of divisiveness for the middle group.
 
soulstyledevon

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It can be quite hard to "buy British", or, "Buy as long as it's from a democracy" and it is a backward step. If we value our democracy then we must be prepared to step backwards. It has a cost but often we can adapt to those costs.

However it involves a sense of will from the individual, a sense of unity from the community and a strategy from our leaders. As a country forget about the last bit and rue the rewards of divisiveness for the middle group.

No, it’s not quite hard. It’s almost impossible. From the tablet you tap on, to the car you drive or the bicycle you ride. They all have an element of China within them.
 
Wildcamper

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No, it’s not quite hard. It’s almost impossible. From the tablet you tap on, to the car you drive or the bicycle you ride. They all have an element of China within them.
At present you are correct. But with a global free world committment (yes unlikely) to go down a "Home Spun" tradactory and acceptance that in the short term things might go backwards disengagement from China is possible. The Free World knows the products required and it knows how to make them but currently lack the infrastructure to do so, this can be built.
 
clarinetbcn

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At present you are correct. But with a global free world committment (yes unlikely) to go down a "Home Spun" tradactory and acceptance that in the short term things might go backwards disengagement from China is possible. The Free World knows the products required and it knows how to make them but currently lack the infrastructure to do so, this can be built.
The problem is not lack of infrastructure, the problem is that manufacturers are determined to use cheap Chinese labor. The fact that we allow products to be sold in Europe that are manufactured in labor conditions, including child labor laws, that would be illegal in Europe has had the practical result of manufacturers succeeding in repealing all our labor protections and child labor laws that so many of previous generations fought and died for. We all want cheap stuff so we look the other way. I am in favor of only allowing products to be sold in Europe that are manufactured under the same conditions and wages that are required here. Some say that such salaries in other countries would be disruptive. The hypocrisy of this can be seen when none of those same people have any objection to a very few factory owners becoming obscenely wealthy by manufacturing in these countries with cheap unprotected labor and then pocketing the profits from selling at European prices. Manufacturers will not change voluntarily, a combination of regulation and financial incentives will be necessary, as Biden has done in the US with chip manufacturing. Yes, things will cost more, but I think it’s immoral to have such cheap prices at the cost of effectively repealing labor protections, supporting slave labor and driving our neighbors’ companies out of business. There’s a study out about how long it takes for the opening of a new Wallmart store (cheap Chinese manufactured goods) in the US to crash the economy of the area (local businesses go bankrupt, unemployment rises, local tax base is devastated leading to the collapse of local infrastructure like roads, sanitation, schools. 5-15 years. The the ability of children in the area to prepare for and enter university drops drastically. The Walton family are 8 of the wealthiest people on the planet, but a full time employee there sells goods manufactured in conditions that have put his neighbors out of a job, AND is eligible for a tax-payer funded food subsidy to feed his family due to the low salary. In other words, some of the wealthiest people on the planet pay their employees with taxpayer money, the definition of corporate sucking from the public tit. Walmart is the largest employer in the US, second only to the US Defense Department. This is what has been created. It’s our decision to decide to change it.

 
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