Which electric car to buy?

Bicycle and train makes for a quick way to travel between cities for the able-bodied: up to 5 miles from Euston to up to 5 miles from Lime Street should take about 3 hours. Driving between Tate Modern and Tate Liverpool would take about 50% longer.

I just wish they’d sort out rail pricing properly and provide adequate facilities on trains for bicycles.
Does it?

We decide to go to London for the day, tomorrow in fact.
Home to Cardiff Central, 14 miles, bus takes 50 minutes and is free. Bus Pass, otherwise £5 return.
Cardiff Central to London Paddington, 1hr 54 mins if on time, £227 standard £419 1st Class with free coffee.
London Paddington to Hyde Park, walking 20-30 mins.

Total time 3 hrs, cost £227 to £419 for the 2 of us.

Leave home at same time in California , stop at Reading Services for coffee and loo, £5.80, and onto London parking in Hyde Park Underground car park, £25.
Return milage 348 miles , 30mpg, 11.6 gallons, 53 L at £1.27/L = £67.03.
Travelling time + 2 x stop 6hrs 50 minutes for return.

So 6hr 50mins mins +£103.63
by car v 6hrs + £227 + coffee or £419 inc coffee.

So, for the sake of 50 mins I can save between £130 to £330.

Also, in the present COVID-19 climate We limit our exposure significantly.

We have done this trip many times , sometimes a little quicker sometimes a little slower, by both train and California. The slowest was by train. If we know 3 months in advance we can purchase advance tickets at a significant saving and so go by train, but if not we go by car.
 
Bicycle and train makes for a quick way to travel between cities for the able-bodied: up to 5 miles from Euston to up to 5 miles from Lime Street should take about 3 hours. Driving between Tate Modern and Tate Liverpool would take about 50% longer.

I just wish they’d sort out rail pricing properly and provide adequate facilities on trains for bicycles.

Ha! Gotcha! You and @WelshGas have accidentally agreed, whilst trying to disagree, thus proving that you are indeed one and the same!
 
Ha! Gotcha! You and @WelshGas have accidentally agreed, whilst trying to disagree, thus proving that you are indeed one and the same!
My trip wasn’t 50% longer by car.;)

But was 50% more expensive by train.:thumb
 
Ha! Gotcha! You and @WelshGas have accidentally agreed, whilst trying to disagree, thus proving that you are indeed one and the same!

Lol. It does very much sound like @WelshGas is agreeing with me that rail pricing needs sorting out.

When you can fly return to Barcelona multiple times for less than the price of a London to Cardiff return ticket something is very wrong.
 
My trip wasn’t 50% longer by car.;)

But was 50% more expensive by train.:thumb

My trip wasn’t 50% longer by car.;)

But was 50% more expensive by train.:thumb

My trip wasn’t 50% longer by car.;)

But was 50% more expensive by train.:thumb

Move within 5 miles of Cardiff Central, and use a bicycle, and you’ll shave 30 mins off your trip to Cardiff Central station and up to 25 mins between Paddington and Hyde Park.

That trims the bike/train journey down to about 4hrs 30.

It would not be for everybody, and you do need to be within cycling distance of a main railway station. But bike/train can be a very quick option between cities.
 
Lol. It does very much sound like @WelshGas is agreeing with me that rail pricing needs sorting out.

When you can fly return to Barcelona multiple times for less than the price of a London to Cardiff return ticket something is very wrong.
Not quit correct.
I disagree that travel time by car are 50% longer. Definitely not the case in my example, and I could quote other examples if you wish.

As regards cost, if you can plan 3 months or so ahead then it can be cheaper to travel by train, as I mentioned.
 
Move within 5 miles of Cardiff Central, and use a bicycle, and you’ll shave 30 mins off your trip to Cardiff Central station and up to 25 mins between Paddington and Hyde Park.

That trims the bike/train journey down to about 4hrs 30.

It would not be for everybody, and you do need to be within cycling distance of a main railway station. But bike/train can be a very quick option between cities.
That’s what city dwellers always bang on about, a very simplistic attitude.
However, if you live or work outside a city , not so good. Try thinking about everyone and not just those who happen to live in a city.
 
I just wish they’d sort out rail pricing properly and provide adequate facilities on trains for bicycles.
Just wait for HS2 pricing to go live.
Current train pricing will look cheap in comparison…
 
Move within 5 miles of Cardiff Central, and use a bicycle, and you’ll shave 30 mins off your trip to Cardiff Central station and up to 25 mins between Paddington and Hyde Park.

That trims the bike/train journey down to about 4hrs 30.

It would not be for everybody, and you do need to be within cycling distance of a main railway station. But bike/train can be a very quick option between cities.
I agree about trains being quicker. I live 5 min. walking from a train/subway station in Barcelona. Two stops to the High Speed station, the direct train leaves me in downtown Madrid (626km at @300kph) in a little over 2 hours. It's not only vastly faster than driving, it's faster than flying. Everyone over 60 gets 40% discount on the national train system, so even if you don't buy cheaper advance tickets, it's still the most economical and fastest way to go.

I can also go north toward France. Typical local trip on high speed train: Barcelona Girona, 104km, 30 min., 6 euros. 1h 20min. by car on toll highways.
 
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Move within 5 miles of Cardiff Central, and use a bicycle, and you’ll shave 30 mins off your trip to Cardiff Central station and up to 25 mins between Paddington and Hyde Park.

That trims the bike/train journey down to about 4hrs 30.

It would not be for everybody, and you do need to be within cycling distance of a main railway station. But bike/train can be a very quick option between cities.
Why would I want to move from this.
view from my summer house.
In the foreground the junior school the children attended.
Behind the trees the High Street with 90% of the shops etc needed. To the R behind the trees, the Comprehensive Scool the children attended, and 7 miles beyond the hills the hospital my wife and I worked at.

I think I’ll continue driving to London.

6DF5C474-A193-411A-A75C-3A1F249514CE.jpeg
 
That’s what city dwellers always bang on about, a very simplistic attitude.
However, if you live or work outside a city , not so good. Try thinking about everyone and not just those who happen to live in a city.

Just think about it….

If more people who could travel by train did travel by train, there’d be more road space for those who can’t travel by train. It is not a zero-sum choice.

What % of the British population do you suppose live within 5 miles of a mainline railway station?
 
Just think about it….

If more people who could travel by train did travel by train, there’d be more road space for those who can’t travel by train. It is not a zero-sum choice.

What % of the British population do you suppose live within 5 miles of a mainline railway station?
No idea. So you keep travelling by train and leave the roads to the non-city dwellers.
In fact, ban all car ownership for city dwellers. That would soon cause a rethink for public transport for us country folk.
 
Fewer than 50% of Inner London households have a private motor car.

But I'm not sure a complete ban will come in for several years.
Source for your statistics?

This is something we deal with frequently when doing development plans & have to predict car ownership / parking requirements.
56% of households in London do have at least one car compared to approx 80% nationally. Ownership in London peaked at 60% in the 1980s
If you look at the detailed breakdown of London ownership, an extremely high proportion of those that don’t own cars are single people living in rented flats. Over the whole country 67% of households use a vehicle for getting to work compared to only 29% of Londoners.

Using the above it’s easy to come to the conclusion that :
A) the difference in car ownership isn’t actually that much between London and the rest
B) Proportionaly twice as many people in London don’t need actually need a car but still have one.
C) poor people in rented flats can’t justify the cost of a car when alternative transport is available
D) 2/3 of the country do actually need a car
 
Lol. It does very much sound like @WelshGas is agreeing with me that rail pricing needs sorting out.

When you can fly return to Barcelona multiple times for less than the price of a London to Cardiff return ticket something is very wrong.
I was going to suggest that the cheapest route Cardiff - London is probably via Barcelona!

Isn’t ticketing going to be fixed by the nationalisation of the rail network?
 
Anyway - quickly back on topic with the electric car:

We’ve had a Golf GTE since 2016 and it’s fab. I had to spend a year calling it ‘my wife’s car’ so that I could eventually trade our old Touran for a Cali, but it was worth it!

When researching cars (which don’t interest me much) I did a spreadsheet, to compare costs, options etc over 10years. Despite us being ‘cash’ buyers (apart from huge mortgage debt), I found that mpg had a tremendous effect on the long term cost, hence we went for the hybrid. It was particularly suitable to our daily 3mile school run. Firing up the turbo diesel twice a day seemed insane for such a short trip. Same for all our local trips (we live 20-30mins from several towns).
If we had cycled to school, we’d probably all be dead. I really wish this was the Netherlands, with it’s cycle lanes etc but here the roads are a winding, narrow strip of pot-holed tarmac, framed by by overgrown vegetation and frequented by aggressive construction traffic. I think this is partly why half of the school-runners drive massive SUV’s.

I think @clarinetbcn is spot-on about people’s affection for ICE cars, with their gear-sticks and brmmm-brmmm noises.
 
Why would I want to move from this.
view from my summer house.
In the foreground the junior school the children attended.
Behind the trees the High Street with 90% of the shops etc needed. To the R behind the trees, the Comprehensive Scool the children attended, and 7 miles beyond the hills the hospital my wife and I worked at.

I think I’ll continue driving to London.

View attachment 81567

Why do you have a monk on your patio, sat on a pole praying? :shocked
 
Source for your statistics?

This is something we deal with frequently when doing development plans & have to predict car ownership / parking requirements.
56% of households in London do have at least one car compared to approx 80% nationally. Ownership in London peaked at 60% in the 1980s
If you look at the detailed breakdown of London ownership, an extremely high proportion of those that don’t own cars are single people living in rented flats. Over the whole country 67% of households use a vehicle for getting to work compared to only 29% of Londoners.

Using the above it’s easy to come to the conclusion that :
A) the difference in car ownership isn’t actually that much between London and the rest
B) Proportionaly twice as many people in London don’t need actually need a car but still have one.
C) poor people in rented flats can’t justify the cost of a car when alternative transport is available
D) 2/3 of the country do actually need a car

The source of my statistic was memory: fewer than 50% of inner London households having a car has been true for a decade or more.

But here is some more detailed information. Page 11 has a detailed breakdown of car ownership by London Borough. A cursory look suggests that there are no inner London boroughs where household car ownership exceeds 50% except my home Borough of Greenwich, and Greenwich isn’t always considered an inner London Borough.


The report summary is reproduced below:

=====

Summary
• There are 2.6m cars registered in London. 54 per cent of London households have at least one car.
• The proportion of households with one or more cars appears to have declined slightly over the last few years, so in 2005/06 around 57 per cent had at least one car.
• Londoners are more likely to own a car if they live in outer London, live in an area with poor access to public transport, have a higher income, have a child in the house, and are of Western European nationality.
• Personal car ownership increases with age to a peak of 58 per cent amongst 55-59 year olds, after which it declines again.
• Car ownership is higher amongst men than women (46 per cent compared to 34 per cent). This gap is greater in lower income households.
• Up to household incomes of £75k, household car access rises as income increases, flattening off after that point.
• People in households with at least one child are nearly a third more likely to own a car than those without.
• Car ownership (households with access to a car) varies substantially across London: at a borough level it ranges from 26 per cent in Islington to 75 per cent in Richmond Upon Thames, outer London boroughs generally seeing higher levels than inner London boroughs.

=====

No where in this report is a breakdown of car ownership by household size, but it seems logical that a household with two or more adults is more likely to have one or more cars than a single person household. Neither is there a breakdown by housing type, but again logic suggests that a house owner is more likely to own a car than a flat renter.

But looking at the report as a whole, it looks like your assertion that “an extremely high proportion of those that don’t own cars are single people living in rented flats” is likely to be false. But that might depend on how you define “extremely high”. But even if by some convoluted logic you define it as a majority (over 50%) it seems likely to be false.
 
The report summary is reproduced below:

=====

Summary
• There are 2.6m cars registered in London. 54 per cent of London households have at least one car.
You should have been a politician-
You state fewer than 50% own a car and yet attach a report that has in its first line that 54% have at least one car.

My statics were all drawn from various reports that we use to support parking needs etc on planning applications.
I use the latest reports, the one you have copied is from 2012.
 
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A colleague of mine 20 yrs ago (yes really not me) was of the view you should only be able to own a car if you have a garage to put it in. A visionary ?
 
You should have been a politician-
You state fewer than 50% own a car and yet attach a report that has in its first line that 54% have at least one car.

My statics were all drawn from various reports that we use to support parking needs etc on planning applications.
I use the latest reports, the one you have copied is from 2012.

I was explicit in stating *Inner London*. The area in red below whether you choose to include Greenwich/Newham or not.

f0dc9842000fa485fe1ff8665455e28f.png


aa7b45db488e95f5e5ec33c1da49410c.jpg


I thought we’d got through all this confusion that time you asserted Eltham Palace was in Kent because that’s were it was pre-1889! I should have known better.
 
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A colleague of mine 20 yrs ago (yes really not me) was of the view you should only be able to own a car if you have a garage to put it in. A visionary ?

That is close to the rule in Japan. On road parking in urban areas is not generally permitted.

 
A colleague of mine 20 yrs ago (yes really not me) was of the view you should only be able to own a car if you have a garage to put it in. A visionary ?
Don’t know about “visionary” more likely the owner of a bus company!
He certainly had a point. When I see new housing developments I‘m amazed at the lack of provision for cars, minimal parking and narrow roads.
 

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