winter tyres and snow chains - VWCS frustrations...

[sampsonr]

I have a 2006 174 4motion/difflock Cali (soon to be replaced with new T6 Ocean 4motion/difflock DSG - about to order!) and take it to the alps frequently in winter - we have an apartment high up a mountainside with up to 11% gradient so can be a challenge with snow and ice if not prepared. Initially used chains but the michelin tyres (summer) were dangerous in the snow with appalling grip. Now use Vredestein Wintrac Extremes all year round on the 17"alloys - a great tyre and wear better than the original summer tyres. Never had to use chains again but take them just in case. See no reason why snow tyres could not be used on a UK Cali.

 

[briwy]

I have a 2006 174 4motion/difflock Cali (soon to be replaced with new T6 Ocean 4motion/difflock DSG - about to order!) and take it to the alps frequently in winter - we have an apartment high up a mountainside with up to 11% gradient so can be a challenge with snow and ice if not prepared. Initially used chains but the michelin tyres (summer) were dangerous in the snow with appalling grip. Now use Vredestein Wintrac Extremes all year round on the 17"alloys - a great tyre and wear better than the original summer tyres. Never had to use chains again but take them just in case. See no reason why snow tyres could not be used on a UK Cali.

Agree, we have the Vredensteins as well. Excellent tyres. Only had to use the chains once and that really was only because the gendarmes wouldn't let anyone out of our village without them. If you look at our avatar perhaps it's not surprising.

 

[splitmike]

When I picked up my 06 from Germany earlier this year it had a full set of 16" alloys in the back with winter tyres and a set of chains in the drawer under the seat.
I'm never going to use them.

 

[greenfintry]

In answer to questions earlier. I have Michelin cross climates on our Audi. They seem to be good, came down through Drumochter last Saturday with 4" of snow/ slush on road.... Rock solid, first test in proper winter conditions. Not sure if they come inT5 size, but may be good 1 size fits all options. Currently we have winter nokians on the Cali

WRT French Alps, you have to have snow chains in the van if the road is marked for chains or pay 400 euro fine, even if 4x4 and snow tyres.... Gendarmes are hot on targeting Brits as part of their Christmas hamper fund. ALWAYS have chains with you

 

[GilesSelby]

We're about to change tyres to some Vredstein Wintrac Exreme S for winter and a forthcoming trip to Val Thorens in the French Alps. We'll clearly need to buy chains to be road legal in addition, but we just wondered if there were any other changes needed or recommended due to the climate - any different engine oil, gearbox oil etc? Windscreen washers might need something adding for really cold temperatures?

 

[WelshGas]

Last time I checked the Michelin Cross Climate tyres did not come in the 103 Load Rating. Next best was the Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons M&S tyres with the Snowflake, so suitable, and legal, in all those countries that require Winter Tyres. I know as I have them fitted.

 

[sbmcd]

This page may be useful http://whichtyres.com/2014/12/motorhome-and-van-winter-tyres/

We use the conti's

 

[WelshGas]

And for All Seasons http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/access...-tyres-test-2015-top-all-weather-tyres-tested

 

[SheffieldSteel]

I put on Nokian WR Winter tyres. Brilliant and less noise than the summer ones.

 

[Gavinskii]

We're about to change tyres to some Vredstein Wintrac Exreme S for winter and a forthcoming trip to Val Thorens in the French Alps. We'll clearly need to buy chains to be road legal in addition, but we just wondered if there were any other changes needed or recommended due to the climate - any different engine oil, gearbox oil etc? Windscreen washers might need something adding for really cold temperatures?

I regularly drive to the alps (off skiing for Christmas soon!!) and as well as ensuring a rich mix of screen wash and radiator antifreeze, I would recommend timing the filling up of your tank with local diesel in the mountain region (local large town in the valley is fine). The fuel has an additive which stops it solidifying in cold temperatures

 

[Aidy P]

I have a 2006 174 4motion/difflock Cali (soon to be replaced with new T6 Ocean 4motion/difflock DSG - about to order!) and take it to the alps frequently in winter - we have an apartment high up a mountainside with up to 11% gradient so can be a challenge with snow and ice if not prepared. Initially used chains but the michelin tyres (summer) were dangerous in the snow with appalling grip. Now use Vredestein Wintrac Extremes all year round on the 17"alloys - a great tyre and wear better than the original summer tyres. Never had to use chains again but take them just in case. See no reason why snow tyres could not be used on a UK Cali.

I've used those tyres for where we live in the Yorkshire Dales. Absolutely fantastic. Not just on snow and ice, but just generally in the wet and on mud too. Will be buying some for my new T6 Ocean 4motion/difflock DSG too for next winter.

 

[GilesSelby]

I regularly drive to the alps (off skiing for Christmas soon!!) and as well as ensuring a rich mix of screen wash and radiator antifreeze, I would recommend timing the filling up of your tank with local diesel in the mountain region (local large town in the valley is fine). The fuel has an additive which stops it solidifying in cold temperatures

Thanks for the tips - really helpful. Will make sure we fill up in the mountain towns and villages.

 

[briwy]

Good point about the diesel. Classifications below. Looks like winter diesel is the same here as France but different in Germany and Austria.

Austria
Winter diesel is required to have a CFPP below -20 °C in winter and in the transitional period below -15 °C.[11] Some premium diesel offers include CFPP guarantees beyond that (OMV MaxxMotion CFPP -35 °C,[12][13] Aral/BP Ultimate Diesel CFPP -24 °C / -30 °C[14])

Designation CFPP value time frame
Winterdiesel -20 °C 01.10. - 28.02.
Übergangszeit -15 °C 01.03. - 31.03.

Belgium
Belgium has taken over the European standard in NBN EN 590. Winter diesel must at least meet the CFPP -15 °C characteristic by law.[15] At gas stations of the VanRaak group the winter diesel is offered at a CFPP -20 °C in the time frame from 1. November to 28. February, and in the transitional period in October the diesel fuel will meet CFPP -11 °C characteristics.[16] At gas stations of the "power" group the winter time frame is extended thereby offering a CFPP -20 °C winter diesel from 15 October through 15 March[17]

Designation CFPP value time frame EN 590
diesel d'hiver / winterdiesel -15 °C 01.11. - 28.02. Class E

Czech Republic
The time frames and minimum requirements for Czech winter diesel (směsné motorové nafty) is regulated by ČSN EN 590 offering the same classes as the European standard. The diesel fuel must meet the Třída B, Třída D and Třída F classes throughout the year.[18] Additionally there is a common Třída 2 class diesel offered as skiing regions require arctic diesel for the equipment (e.g. snow groomers).

designation CFPP value time frame
Třída B 0 °C 15.04 - 30.09.
Třída D -10 °C 01.10. - 15.11.
Třída F -20 °C 16.11. - 01.03.
Třída D -10 °C 01.03. - 14.04.

Denmark
Diesel fuel is governed by the Danish DS EN 590 standard.[19] It denotes three periods for diesel fuel for Winter (Vinter), Fall (Efterår) and Summer (Sommer)[20] - further values are given the actual results of diesel fuel offered at Shell und Statoil stations in Denmark.[21][22]

Designation CFPP value time frame real CFPP real CloudPoint
Sommer -10 °C 01.04. - 30.09. -12 °C 0 °C
Efterår -15 °C 01.10. - 30.11. -18 °C -7 °C
Vinter -20 °C 01.12. - 31.03. -24 °C -10 °C

Finland
Analysis rules follow the EN 590.[20]

period CFPP value time frame
summer period -5 °C 01.04. - 31.10.
winter period -26 °C 01.11. - 31.03.
arctic variety -44 °C in some locations

France
In France the required characteristics must meet EN 590 classes of B, E and F for summer diesel, winter diesel and winter blizzards respectively.[23]

Designation CFPP value time frame EN 590
diesel d'été 0 °C 01.05. - 31.10. Class B
diesel d'hiver -15 °C 01.11. - 30.04. Class E

Germany
The time frame and minimum characteristics are prespribed in DIN EN 590. Some premium diesel characterisations include a CFPP value that extends the winter diesel value by some degrees.(OMV MaxxMotion CFPP -35 °C,[12][13] Aral/BP Ultimate Diesel CFPP -24 °C / -30 °C[14])

Designation CFPP value time frame
Sommerdiesel 0 °C 15.04 - 30.09.
Übergangszeit -10 °C 01.10. - 15.11.
Winterdiesel -20 °C 16.11. - 28.02.
Übergangszeit -10 °C 01.03. - 14.04.

Netherlands
The Netherlands has taken over the German DIN standard - a separate standard was not created as most fuel supply for gas stations is organised cross border for example at Shell.

Norway
Norway has taken over the European standard into its national NS-EN 590 standard. In the mid winter period the standard diesel fuel must meet the arctic winter diesel class 2 conditions (Vinterdiesel Arktisk Grad 2).[24] The time frames may be extended in some regions by about +/- 14 days.[24]

Classification CFPP value time frame
minimum -11 °C 01.04 - 15.09.
winter diesel -24 °C 16.09. - 30.11.
arctic diesel -32 °C 01.12. - 28.02.
winter diesel -24 °C 01.03. - 30.03.

Poland
The legal minimum time frames are usually extended by gas stations by a few weeks and in very cold winter conditions gas stations will switch to arctic winter diesel with a CFPP of -32 °C, in some regions even requiring arctic diesel atr -40 °C.[25] Some premium diesel offers have a better CFPP irrespective of the actual weather conditions (BP Ultimate Diesel CFPP -30 °C all-seasons,[26] Statoil DieselGold/SupraDiesel CFPP -40 °C in winter[27])

period CFPP value time frame
transitional -10 °C 01.10. - 15.11.
winter times -20 °C 16.11. - 28.02.
transitional -10 °C 01.03. - 15.04.

Russia
The regulations in Russia refer to the GOST 305-82 «Топливо дизельное. Технические условия» (diesel fuel. technical requirements). The standard defines three climatic types of diesel fuel:

Designation density (max) flash point (min) pour point (max) cetan number (min) viscosity (20°C)
Летнее дизельное топливо (summer diesel fuel) 860 kg/m³ 62 °C -5 °C 45 3.0-6.0 mm²/s
Зимнее дизельное топливо (winter diesel fuel) 840 kg/m³ 40 °C -35 °C 45 1.8-5.0 mm²/s
Арктическое дизельное топливо (arctic diesel fuel) 830 kg/m³ 35 °C -50 °C 40 1.4-4.0 mm²/s

Spain
Analysis rules follow the EN 590.[20]

period CFPP value time frame
summer period 0 °C 01.04. - 30.09.
winter period -10 °C 01.10. - 31.03.

Switzerland
Although the Swiss standard SN EN 590 has specifications for both summer and winter diesel the market only offers a single diesel type throughout the year ("Ganzjahresdiesel") that will meet the winter characteristics during all seasons.[13][28][29] Some premium diesel characterisations include a CFPP value that extends the winter diesel value by some degrees. (OMV MaxxMotion CFPP -35 °C,[12][13] Aral/BP Ultimate Diesel CFPP -24 °C / -30 °C,[14] Agrola Diesel cleanline CFPP -30 °C [30])

Designation CFPP value time frame
Ganzjahresdiesel -20 °C all-seasons

United Kingdom
The United Kingdom differentiates diesel fuel into Summer and Winter Fuel according to BS EN 590[31] and BS EN14214 (biodiesel).[32][33] The same numbers are used in the Republic of Ireland. Distribution of winter biodiesel in the United Kingdom starts in November and ends in March.[31]

Designation CFPP value time frame Cloud Point
Summer Fuel -5 °C 16.03. - 15.11. 3 °C
Winter Fuel -15 °C 16.11. - 15.03. -5 °C

 

[Seán Kerr]

Got my snow chains from the club shop, we have 235/55/R17 tyres, http://vwcaliforniaclub.com/shop/product/husky-pro-16mm-snow-chains-pair-hupr235 all ready for our trip next month.

Hi Victor

Are you able to confirm if these chains are ok with your tyres and which model on Cali you have? I have a 2017 T6 4Motion and bought 235/55R17 winter tyres before reading the manual, which says don’t fit chains to them.

 

[sbmcd]

I am about to order a new set of winter tyres to replace my Continental winter vanco2 tyres which are now down to 3 - 4 mm. Looking at Nokian WR C3 215/60 R17 (109) 104H rated, Camskill doing them at a good price £121.20 Inc vat.

https://www.nokiantyres.com/winter-tyres/nokian-wr-c3/

Anyone had experience with these?

 

[GrannyJen]

I have two of them on mine. (The other two were left in pieces all over a highland track )

Great performance in snow. Cannot comment on wear rate yet as only 10,000 miles but still plenty of rubber left.

I also carry snow socks, just in case, although in three years I've never had to use them.

 

[sbmcd]

I have two of them on mine. (The other two were left in pieces all over a highland track )

Great performance in snow. Cannot comment on wear rate yet as only 10,000 miles but still plenty of rubber left.

I also carry snow socks, just in case, although in three years I've never had to use them.

Thank you.

 

[ournumbernine]

I can't get the Nokian WR C3 in the correct speed rating VW show rating T in my size only R.

Nikian Weatherproof C come in correct (or higher) load and speed rating 215/65R16 C 109/107 T anyone had experience of these? They get good write ups but classed as all season (with snowflake symbol) rather than full winters.

 

[GrannyJen]

Ah...

Mine are Nokia, not sure of the breed, currently not near Albert