NHS Nightingale

[T6 CFO]

You might view it as good news, that there are not as many infections as feared.

Or you might consider it a hideous waste of money that could have been better spent on ramping up testing.

I suppose I'd far rather there were 481 spare intensive care beds in London than 481 too few.

The strategy from the off was to do everything possible to prevent an overload of the health service as happened in Italy. So far this is being achieved which has to be good.




Mike

 

[Jabberwocky]

No we are not.

Most of the country are doing everything and more required of them.

Because we have a 24 hour news flow with an avalanche of social media we hear every bad thing it is possible to hear and it’s grasped by our media to get air time and sensational headlines.

To say it pi**es me off rather than concentrating on the good things is an understatement.

They are now busy telling people in care homes that they are being air brushed out. They have been told at least 4 or 5 times why this is but no. Far better to frighten the people in homes who are already in a difficult situation.

Rant probably not over.


Mike

OK Mike, thanks, and I understand your view. But getting past the headlines and the sensationalist press I am of the view that anyone who seeks to damage a comms that is, as its first purpose, to aid the NHS and its partners to deliver care/treatment to Covid-19 sufferers should be dealt with in the most robust way. I have no time for the press by the way!
P.S. Rants are not good for your BP! (personal experience tells me this!)

 

[T6 CFO]

OK Mike, thanks, and I understand your view. But getting past the headlines and the sensationalist press I am of the view that anyone who seeks to damage a comms that is, as its first purpose, to aid the NHS and its partners to deliver care/treatment to Covid-19 sufferers should be dealt with in the most robust way. I have no time for the press by the way!
P.S. Rants are not good for your BP! (personal experience tells me this!)

Last point first. No they’re not.

I agree with you wholeheartedly on how idiots should be dealt with.

I just don’t think as a country we are in meltdown which was your question.

We will be though if sections of the press get there way.


Mike

 

[Velma's Dad]

seems harsh

not sure this guy is ill informed

WSU Prof Warns 5G 'Will Utterly Destroy Us' As Ericsson Predicts 45% Adoption in 5 Yrs

As Ericsson predicts massive 5G adoption worldwide, a WSU professor tells The Sociable, "We will be completely and utterly destroyed," by 5G.

sociable.co

Okay I'll roll with this, not much else to do at the moment...

Please explain to me a plausible mechanism by which non-ionising radiation, specifically low powered EMF emissions used in 5G or any similar communications systems, could be a factor in the outbreak of a disease caused by a highly contagious single strand RNA virus transmitted through droplets and aerosols of bodily fluids and infecting the upper and lower respiratory tracts.

I'm sure any medics and public health specialists reading this would be especially fascinated to know, although they just might be busy with other things right now.

 

[2into1]

No we are not.

Most of the country are doing everything and more required of them.

Because we have a 24 hour news flow with an avalanche of social media we hear every bad thing it is possible to hear and it’s grasped by our media to get air time and sensational headlines.

To say it pi**es me off rather than concentrating on the good things is an understatement.

They are now busy telling people in care homes that they are being air brushed out. They have been told at least 4 or 5 times why this is but no. Far better to frighten the people in homes who are already in a difficult situation.

Rant probably not over.


Mike

Trust in every institution has increased in the last 4 weeks, apart from the media, which has plummeted. The British aren't daft and aren't taken in by the posturing of di*kheads like Peston.

Media Confidence Meltdown

The Coronavirus crisis has driven gains in confidence in almost all UK institutions, except for one. A new survey from Kekst CNC (which tracks public

order-order.com

 

[Jabberwocky]

I just don’t think as a country we are in meltdown which was your question.

We will be though if sections of the press get there way.

Mike

Not sure if that was my question but no matter. I was really annoyed at the perpetrators of the attacks (one was just half a mile from me), and yes, on reflection the press certainly could have reported it in a different way but that has been ever thus about all sorts of past events. I guess I have become immune to their complete disregard/lack of any moral compass. Thanks for the reminder!

 

[Wongo]

Once you start reading Guido Fawkes, your in trouble. an independent media is essential as well as parliamentary scrutiny

 

[Benh76]

Okay I'll roll with this, not much else to do at the moment...

Please explain to me a plausible mechanism by which non-ionising radiation, specifically low powered EMF emissions used in 5G or any similar communications systems, could be a factor in the outbreak of a disease caused by a highly contagious single strand RNA virus transmitted through droplets and aerosols of bodily fluids and infecting the upper and lower respiratory tracts.

I'm sure any medics and public health specialists reading this would be especially fascinated to know, although they just might be busy with other things right now.

I didn’t say I was an expert, the point I was making is that there are people making cases for and against 5G. To say someone should pay back the cost for their education because they take a point of view (that I presume doesn’t match yours) seemed harsh to me.

If you look at the article I had linked it is from an professor of biochemistry and medical sciences ie a medical expert. There are over 230k signatories incl over 200 scientists worldwide on the appeal asking for 5G to be reviewed. I am not advocating that they are right or even trying to link 5G to covid19 (as some are) but surely as a technology which seems to need to have thousands of satellites and transmitters to support it would suggest it should be tested independently first as part of due diligence and prior to a full roll out ?

p.s. I can attest to medical experts being busy right now as my daughter is a paramedic.

 

[2into1]

Once you start reading Guido Fawkes, your in trouble. an independent media is essential as well as parliamentary scrutiny

Cheers for the lecture Wongo. When lecturing, always check your grammar.

 

[Amarillo]

Trust in every institution has increased in the last 4 weeks, apart from the media, which has plummeted. The British aren't daft and aren't taken in by the posturing of di*kheads like Peston.

Media Confidence Meltdown

The Coronavirus crisis has driven gains in confidence in almost all UK institutions, except for one. A new survey from Kekst CNC (which tracks public

order-order.com

My confidence in the police is falling by the day. Things like this don't help.

Pub 'named and shamed' by police for breaching lockdown is cleared

The council have cleared The Shakespeare from any wrongdoing

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

And more locally on nextdoor.com the police are regularly spouting fake regulations, from a ban on a family playing frisbee in the park, to a ban on the homeless enjoying a beer together. The police really should know better.

 

[Velma's Dad]

I didn’t say I was an expert, the point I was making is that there are people making cases for and against 5G. To say someone should pay back the cost for their education because they take a point of view (that I presume doesn’t match yours) seemed harsh to me.

If you look at the article I had linked it is from an professor of biochemistry and medical sciences ie a medical expert. There are over 230k signatories incl over 200 scientists worldwide on the appeal asking for 5G to be reviewed. I am not advocating that they are right or even trying to link 5G to covid19 (as some are) but surely as a technology which seems to need to have thousands of satellites and transmitters to support it would suggest it should be tested independently first as part of due diligence and prior to a full roll out ?

p.s. I can attest to medical experts being busy right now as my daughter is a paramedic.

Then you mis-read the context of my comment and the post to which it was linked, which was about the sabotage of telecoms towers by people who believe 5G causes Covid-19.

I'm sorry if you found my comment in some way elitist but yes I do despair not just of the criminal idiots setting fire to towers, but also of the many more people who unthinkingly encourage them by sharing on the internet implausible and alarmist theories linking 5G to pretty much any health condition.

You circulated a link to the output of the former academic Martin Poll. You now acknowledge that he does not claim there's any link between 5G and Covid-19. In that case, why mention him?

 

[andyinluton]

The strategy from the off was to do everything possible to prevent an overload of the health service as happened in Italy. So far this is being achieved which has to be good.
Mike

I am getting increasingly concerned that the only reason that hospitals are not overwhelmed is because there are a large number of older people that are not being admitted.

I mentioned in an earlier post that the OAP home round the corner from us had 15 fatalities in a week. 5 were tested & found positive for the virus but those 5 don't appear in the virus statistics as they were not in hospital at the time they died, the other ten victims were not even tested so will never show up in the figures.

When there are over 2000 care homes that have reported cases so the numbers of people involved could be huge.

The only statistic that can really be trusted is the ONS total number of deaths in a week compared to the average over a number of years, this figure always lags behind "todays deaths" due to the time taken for all deaths to be registered.
The current ONS graphs show approx 16500 deaths last week against a five year average of just over 10000 so an extra 6250 deaths, but the line for Coronavirus shows only 3500
Theres either something else out there killing an extra 2750 people a week or an awful lot more Coronavirus deaths than being reported.

 

[Trevor Brown]

seems harsh

not sure this guy is ill informed

WSU Prof Warns 5G 'Will Utterly Destroy Us' As Ericsson Predicts 45% Adoption in 5 Yrs

As Ericsson predicts massive 5G adoption worldwide, a WSU professor tells The Sociable, "We will be completely and utterly destroyed," by 5G.

sociable.co

Sounds like a pretty technically accredited journal ....

 

[Wongo]

Cheers for the lecture Wongo. When lecturing, always check your grammar.

Just giving you a heads up on Guido Fawkes that is all, do look into Mr Staines. No personal Comment intended.

 

[WelshGas]

I am getting increasingly concerned that the only reason that hospitals are not overwhelmed is because there are a large number of older people that are not being admitted.

I mentioned in an earlier post that the OAP home round the corner from us had 15 fatalities in a week. 5 were tested & found positive for the virus but those 5 don't appear in the virus statistics as they were not in hospital at the time they died, the other ten victims were not even tested so will never show up in the figures.

When there are over 2000 care homes that have reported cases so the numbers of people involved could be huge.

The only statistic that can really be trusted is the ONS total number of deaths in a week compared to the average over a number of years, this figure always lags behind "todays deaths" due to the time taken for all deaths to be registered.
The current ONS graphs show approx 16500 deaths last week against a five year average of just over 10000 so an extra 6250 deaths, but the line for Coronavirus shows only 3500
Theres either something else out there killing an extra 2750 people a week or an awful lot more Coronavirus deaths than being reported.

You have to be aware of what Treatment and Resuscitation Orders are in place for the residents of some of the Care/Nursing Homes. Also the differentiations between a Care Home, primarily Social Care and a Nursing Home which covers both Social and Nursing Care.
A resident with advanced Alzheimers or some other variety of degenerative brain/neurological condition may not be best served by transferring out of their comfort zone, nor be able to accept the treatment required, even wearing a simple oxygen mask, and might have an Advanced Directive in place prohibiting such treatment.

 

[Benh76]

Then you mis-read the context of my comment and the post to which it was linked, which was about the sabotage of telecoms towers by people who believe 5G causes Covid-19.

I'm sorry if you found my comment in some way elitist but yes I do despair not just of the criminal idiots setting fire to towers, but also of the many more people who unthinkingly encourage them by sharing on the internet implausible and alarmist theories linking 5G to pretty much any health condition.

You circulated a link to the output of the former academic Martin Poll. You now acknowledge that he does not claim there's any link between 5G and Covid-19. In that case, why mention him?

Wow ! Are you implying that in someway I encourage people to commit crime, that’s some leap ? Reading and sharing alternative viewpoints is part of our free speech isn’t it and part of being human is to question. I would also mention that in this particular case it is supported by scientists, not some sort of ill-informed vigilante group you seem to be targeting.

In the end it is up to the reader to make their own mind up on how much credence they give it. I also don’t understand where you think I acknowledged anything about Martins link to covid and 5G ? I only mentioned that I was not advocating or even linking the 2 issues myself, I have an open mind on the subject but certainly won’t be paying my education bill back as you seem to want me to do.

 

[andyinluton]

You have to be aware of what Treatment and Resuscitation Orders are in place for the residents of some of the Care/Nursing Homes. Also the differentiations between a Care Home, primarily Social Care and a Nursing Home which covers both Social and Nursing Care.
A resident with advanced Alzheimers or some other variety of degenerative brain/neurological condition may not be best served by transferring out of their comfort zone, nor be able to accept the treatment required, even wearing a simple oxygen mask, and might have an Advanced Directive in place prohibiting such treatment.

This was what I would call an OAPs home with ensuite rooms & communal lounges, convenient for the local shops etc with residents seen whizzing round locally with their zimmer frames. I cant believe that not 1 of the 15 warranted a hospital bed.

Even if there was an agreement in place not to resuscitate etc its more the fact that the numbers are hidden, those 15 don't count as Coronavirus deaths, theres now reports coming through from other homes with multiple deaths none of which are included in the statistics. How many more are not being included in the numbers.

 

[Amarillo]

This was what I would call an OAPs home with ensuite rooms & communal lounges, convenient for the local shops etc with residents seen whizzing round locally with their zimmer frames. I cant believe that not 1 of the 15 warranted a hospital bed.

My father-in-law is in a home. He has specifically requested not to go to hospital.

 

[CaliBear]

My brother informs me that The Royal Welsh show ground at Builth Wells is ear marked for a temporary morgue and also he has been asked to find as may refrigerated lorries as possible, sad times!

The ice skating rink where we watch Ice hockey in Milton Keynes is being used as a temporary morgue too. Will be very weird going back there in the future once things go back to normal.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Wow ! Are you implying that in someway I encourage people to commit crime, that’s some leap ? Reading and sharing alternative viewpoints is part of our free speech isn’t it and part of being human is to question. I would also mention that in this particular case it is supported by scientists, not some sort of ill-informed vigilante group you seem to be targeting.

In the end it is up to the reader to make their own mind up on how much credence they give it. I also don’t understand where you think I acknowledged anything about Martins link to covid and 5G ? I only mentioned that I was not advocating or even linking the 2 issues myself, I have an open mind on the subject but certainly won’t be paying my education bill back as you seem to want me to do.

No I'm not accusing you of deliberately encouraging anyone to commit a crime. And yes, sharing alternative viewpoints is a right. But with rights there are also responsibilities and I'd suggest one of those is to be scrupulously careful about circulating conspiracy theories that might result in harm.

You invited me/us to read an article - the one about 5G and various health risks - and you did so in the context of a thread about coronavirus. A bit like if I'd shared a link questioning whether vaccines are safe, in an internet forum about childhood autism, linking selectively to the output of one academic named Andrew Wakefield. I'd be within my rights to do so, but would it be responsible?

I'd invite you to read this article, by Full Fact the independent fact checking organisation:

Here’s where those 5G and coronavirus conspiracy theories came from - Full Fact

Conspiracy theorists have been peddling 5G myths for a while now, we’ve only just started to listen.

fullfact.org

 

[WelshGas]

This was what I would call an OAPs home with ensuite rooms & communal lounges, convenient for the local shops etc with residents seen whizzing round locally with their zimmer frames. I cant believe that not 1 of the 15 warranted a hospital bed.

Even if there was an agreement in place not to resuscitate etc its more the fact that the numbers are hidden, those 15 don't count as Coronavirus deaths, theres now reports coming through from other homes with multiple deaths none of which are included in the statistics. How many more are not being included in the numbers.

It, unfortunately, is all down to the different reporting systems.
Hospital Deaths are reported via a Computer system but unfortunately Care/Nursing Homes are not involved in that system. If someone dies in a Social Care Home, or in their own home, then a GP issues a Death Certificate and that then has to be registered with the Registrar Of Births, Deaths and Marriages. That process can take some days, not because of the Registration, but relatives may not do it immediately. Until it is registered it will not be included in the ONS figures.
For comparison reasons all the countries reporting C19 Deaths us Hospital Deaths only.

 

[T6 CFO]

I am getting increasingly concerned that the only reason that hospitals are not overwhelmed is because there are a large number of older people that are not being admitted.

I mentioned in an earlier post that the OAP home round the corner from us had 15 fatalities in a week. 5 were tested & found positive for the virus but those 5 don't appear in the virus statistics as they were not in hospital at the time they died, the other ten victims were not even tested so will never show up in the figures.

When there are over 2000 care homes that have reported cases so the numbers of people involved could be huge.

The only statistic that can really be trusted is the ONS total number of deaths in a week compared to the average over a number of years, this figure always lags behind "todays deaths" due to the time taken for all deaths to be registered.
The current ONS graphs show approx 16500 deaths last week against a five year average of just over 10000 so an extra 6250 deaths, but the line for Coronavirus shows only 3500
Theres either something else out there killing an extra 2750 people a week or an awful lot more Coronavirus deaths than being reported.

It’s probably too early and difficult to say at this stage.
We don’t live in an authoritarian regime and decisions are I hope being made on a local level and by individual GP’s.

I can only speak from my own experience of a residential care home my mother was in. She died two years ago from a heart attack but as a result of emphysema.

Residential homes with a warden were mainly for older but still active people with the ability to call for help. Over the last 20 years they were becoming increasingly more like nursing homes with the level of visits from nurses increasing dramatically.

Two years ago when my Mum died she had three good friends. One has since died and the other two are still in the home. I know for a fact that all four of these ladies would not wish to go into hospital. I’m in touch with one and my last call was very sad. They are only being allowed to meet with one other resident, at a distance and in the garden. Other than that they are stuck in their individual rooms. Her view was that it was worse than the war when they could at least cuddle and sing round the piano. It was a very sad call and I felt the fight had gone out of her.

There isn’t any conspiracy to hide the numbers. Reasons why they come out has been explained at length.

Remember a good wedge of the current tactics are an effort to protect vulnerable people.

It must be extremely difficult for the staff.

My mum and her friends were already struggling as they felt that this type of home was unsuitable for a growing number of the residents who should have been in nursing homes.

I am not an expert and just telling you of my own experiences, there are thousands of homes.


Mike

 

[Wongo]

I remember when the local authority ran high end nursing & care homes what happened??

 

[jts46]

I remember when the local authority ran high end nursing & care homes what happened??

People did not want to pay extra in council tax for this service so they where privatised, although some local authorities did keep them

 

[Benh76]

No I'm not accusing you of deliberately encouraging anyone to commit a crime. And yes, sharing alternative viewpoints is a right. But with rights there are also responsibilities and I'd suggest one of those is to be scrupulously careful about circulating conspiracy theories that might result in harm.

You invited me/us to read an article - the one about 5G and various health risks - and you did so in the context of a thread about coronavirus. A bit like if I'd shared a link questioning whether vaccines are safe, in an internet forum about childhood autism, linking selectively to the output of one academic named Andrew Wakefield. I'd be within my rights to do so, but would it be responsible?

I'd invite you to read this article, by Full Fact the independent fact checking organisation:

Here’s where those 5G and coronavirus conspiracy theories came from - Full Fact

Conspiracy theorists have been peddling 5G myths for a while now, we’ve only just started to listen.

fullfact.org

I have actually already read that article and agree that it poses a completely different point of view but it seems to discuss more about the origins of the concerns and some of the obscure links being made to 5G and Covid.

Unfortunately the article doesn’t expand on why 5G is safe and how it has been irrefutably tested. Should someone do this and publish it to the masses it may placate people
enough to stop the criminality.