NHS

[Velma's Dad]

Very interesting. So my mum making me take cod liver oil every day when I was a nipper was maybe sensible...

Seriously though, how do you get your Vit D checked, just a blood sample at the GP? (I'm such a blokey duffer when it comes to health stuff).

 

[GrannyJen]

A v

Very interesting. So my mum making me take cod liver oil every day when I was a nipper was maybe sensible...

Seriously though, how do you get your Vit D checked, just a blood sample at the GP? (I'm such a blokey duffer when it comes to health stuff).

A very easy to use dried blood spot kit. Prick a finger, put a few drops of blood on to a test strip, send off to a lab. Theres lots to choose from but I use city assays, an NHS lab in Birmingham. They send you the complete package for around £29, including a plaster to put on the pricked finger afterwards. Very easy to follow directions an results emailed to you within three working days, even in these days so obviously not very busy testing for CV!!

Vitamin D Testing Service to the public from our NHS laboratory

VItamin D testing to the public. Our NHS laboratories in Birmingham have offered a public service since 2011 to the UK and the world. Our self-test kits are used extensively in R&D.

www.vitamindtest.org.uk

 

[Mickyb123]

Great to see a thread aimed at sending a thank you to NHS has quickly descended into a metaphorical Willy waving thread.
seems to be a theme on this whole forum

 

[clarinetbcn]

Great to see a thread aimed at sending a thank you to NHS has quickly descended into a metaphorical Willy waving thread.
seems to be a theme on this whole forum

@GrannyJen That is something that I'm sure you've never been accused of before!

 

[WelshGas]

Great to see a thread aimed at sending a thank you to NHS has quickly descended into a metaphorical Willy waving thread.
seems to be a theme on this whole forum

There is a great difference between the Frontline NHS staff of all disciplines and Hospital/Trust and DOH management.
It is the Frontline staff that deserve all the credit and Management and Procurement that should be taking the flack over PPE.

 

[RodCouncil]

I don’t believe the NHS per se is inadequately funded, BUT it is expected to do things it was never designed for when first conceived.
1. Infertility Treatment
2. Bariatric Surgery
3. Drug use/overdose
4. Alcohol misuse
5. Sports injuries
6. Transplant surgery
7. Gender re-alignment
To name but a few. These are mostly lifestyle choices and the NHS is left to deal with the fallout.
If the general opinion is that they should be included then Taxes must increase to pay for them or an alternative system devised.

Biggest two not on there.....obesity and more older people

 

[WelshGas]

Biggest two not on there.....obesity and more older people

Bariatric surgery.
The elderly ? That is predominately Social Care provision. Nothing to do with the NHS as such.

 

[GrannyJen]

@GrannyJen That is something that I'm sure you've never been accused of before!

I've always used someone elses when I wanted to do that

Oh gosh!! Did I really say that!

 

[Deskman]

I'm not in the UK so the NHS is not for me. And there are quite some differences between de Dutch and the UK health care system. But I'm married to a nurse who was sent to the corona-unit in the first two weeks of the surge - so I do have some thoughts about it too.

Hospitals, in general, are more and more managed like supermarkets - with ex-supermarket managers as CEO. Everything has to be as efficient and as cheap as possible. Following a very strict 'lean and men' policy left us with a system that is very much dependent on order on-demand suppliers. And while low pricing is everything we are very much relying on half fabricates from China. This whole system is coming to a halt in a situation like this. There is absolutely no fall-back fail-safe solution for masks, gloves, filters, machines, glasses and testing substrate (to name some) and even painkillers are on short supply but maybe we caused that problem ourselves by buying at once for the next 10 years.

There were quite some warnings about this way of managing the stock for 'if and when' but this was ignored at large.

And now we expect our nurses and doctors to be creative with their protective clothing, masks and glasses?

For me, there is absolutely no question about who should be rewarded with the bonus that otherwise would go to the board.

 

[Jools]

I don’t believe the NHS per se is inadequately funded, BUT it is expected to do things it was never designed for when first conceived.
1. Infertility Treatment
2. Bariatric Surgery
3. Drug use/overdose
4. Alcohol misuse
5. Sports injuries
6. Transplant surgery
7. Gender re-alignment
To name but a few. These are mostly lifestyle choices and the NHS is left to deal with the fallout.
If the general opinion is that they should be included then Taxes must increase to pay for them or an alternative system devised.

Which one of these is a choice ?
Genuinely puzzled by this idea.
Yes they are all services that have developed since 1948 ..... but are any of these choices ? Who chooses infertility Who chooses autoimmune liver failure/transplant? Horrible disease. Even sports injuries ... these are events that happen to those seeking to stay fit ! And alcoholism is certainly never chosen in my experience !

 

[Jools]

It wasn't my video. I was probably as shocked by its content as you - although I did see it out, so maybe not.

I did think it was worth sharing. The thought of a final year medical student preparing to start work early, not knowing if they would be adequately protected was quite humbling. But I agree with you, putting all the blame onto the Government for lack of protection is probably unfair.

I was also quite surprised at the audacity of projecting it onto the Houses of Parliament. It was clearly a political move.

PPE is single use for one simple reason..... its the safest way to avoid infection. Reuseable laundered items involve risk, if only to those laundering them.

 

[docbob1]

Instead of HS2 they should put that £100 Billion into NHS, imagine the new hospitals and equipment we could get for that money

That would run the NHS for 30weeks at current costings. Today the private sector (self employed) financing seems to be at £350billion from the Government figures, few billion here and there for local councils and god knows what for benefit claims (unemployment, inability to pay rent) not to mention the cost of wages for the next minimum 3 months for the rest (don't think another 3 weeks is it) Total cost GOK. Now our wonderful Central Banks will lend us these billions for no interest? add that one up to total cost.
Objective, slow down rate of people dying of Corona so NHS can cope. Do you think there will be a great difference in the final death toll as we will all have to meet this virus eventually and those with an immune/other medical issue problem such as obese elderly will suffer most but unavoidable?
There is no vaccine, never has been, to this RNA virus group (includes Foot and Mouth as well, huge financial gain there for one) Despite it being the 'Holy Grail' for vaccine manufacturers as profits would be MEGAHUGE.
Where are we going??
We are going Bankrupt. How will the NHS be funded in the future will these debts?

 

[calikev]

Thats cheered me right up that has

 

[Jools]

The NHS has it's own Procurement Arm - Nothing to do with the Government. Their comments should be directed in-house to those responsible, and despite your political affiliation, the Government and the Armed Forces are attempting to make up this deficiency . For too long the NHS has promoted the useless up the ladder and now it has come back to roost. The massive increase in in-house ITU capability was down to the nurses and medics thinking outside the box and NOT the managers with bright ideas, likewise the Nightingale Hospitals.
PPE is now all disposable because the managers could then close Hospital Laundries and save a few pence to pay their large salaries, and they went overseas to cheap suppliers and this is the consequence.

Procurement certainly happens all the time in the NHS..... but funding is 100% a political decision and adequate funding is required to allow the "luxury" of building up adequate supplies of PPE. If you look at the "Commonwealth' study from the US (above) you will see that the NHS is the most efficient system studied .... not the best , but the best value ( and that is a position consistent from previous studies)..... not what the right wing wants to hear .... but an independent voice. The US system is hopelessly expensive and unequal .... the single greatest cause of personal bankruptcies in the US is medical bills ... let that sink in!

 

[Jools]

That would run the NHS for 30weeks at current costings. Today the private sector (self employed) financing seems to be at £350billion from the Government figures, few billion here and there for local councils and god knows what for benefit claims (unemployment, inability to pay rent) not to mention the cost of wages for the next minimum 3 months for the rest (don't think another 3 weeks is it) Total cost GOK. Now our wonderful Central Banks will lend us these billions for no interest? add that one up to total cost.
Objective, slow down rate of people dying of Corona so NHS can cope. Do you think there will be a great difference in the final death toll as we will all have to meet this virus eventually and those with an immune/other medical issue problem such as obese elderly will suffer most but unavoidable?
There is no vaccine, never has been, to this RNA virus group (includes Foot and Mouth as well, huge financial gain there for one) Despite it being the 'Holy Grail' for vaccine manufacturers as profits would be MEGAHUGE.
Where are we going??
We are going Bankrupt. How will the NHS be funded in the future will these debts?

There is a vaccine to SARs. another coronavirus and there definitely will be one for this Covid 19. Maybe 12 months away but there will be one. So the idea we must all get it and suffer the 1/2 million deaths is simply not true.

 

[docbob1]

What a load of Tosh, do some research, NO SARS VACCINE, had last 17years to make one and still haven't

 

[WelshGas]

Procurement certainly happens all the time in the NHS..... but funding is 100% a political decision and adequate funding is required to allow the "luxury" of building up adequate supplies of PPE. If you look at the "Commonwealth' study from the US (above) you will see that the NHS is the most efficient system studied .... not the best , but the best value ( and that is a position consistent from previous studies)..... not what the right wing wants to hear .... but an independent voice. The US system is hopelessly expensive and unequal .... the single greatest cause of personal bankruptcies in the US is medical bills ... let that sink in!

Sorry, but it is NHS Procurement that supplies the NHS. Not the Government so any moans or gripes about PPE should be directed towards the people whose job it is. Correct, the Government supply the funds which they have done so, but if NHS Management and Procurement had not ran down the road of single use items, from China and the Far East, instead of re-useable items that could be turned around in less than 24 hrs then their wouldn't be these apparent problems.

 

[docbob1]

There is a vaccine to SARs. another coronavirus and there definitely will be one for this Covid 19. Maybe 12 months away but there will be one. So the idea we must all get it and suffer the 1/2 million deaths is simply not true.

Do some research, there is NO VACCINE to SARS despite 17years to find one, as to Half a million deaths wait and see if we exceed the 2015 total of 45,000 from flu (probably 47,000 in 2010 and much higher in 1999)
If you like false statistics/ opinions continue to listen to IMPERIAL COLLEGE (Bill gates funded £50M last 17 years) and Johns Hopkins similarly funded to a much higher level. Try and find other virologist's opinions in the mainstream media, you don't!
Also note the wording is Covid related deaths being reported. If I have a stroke/heart attack, test positive and die, did I die of the stroke/heart attack or the virus alone? Think outside the box as to what is going on!

 

[WelshGas]

Which one of these is a choice ?
Genuinely puzzled by this idea.
Yes they are all services that have developed since 1948 ..... but are any of these choices ? Who chooses infertility Who chooses autoimmune liver failure/transplant? Horrible disease. Even sports injuries ... these are events that happen to those seeking to stay fit ! And alcoholism is certainly never chosen in my experience !

If you are puzzled then I'm afraid that is your problem.
Virtually none of these conditions were around or treatable when the NHS was formed.
Infertility - Why is that a NHS problem, unless caused by surgery for another problem. It is not a god-given right to have a child. Some can and some can't.
Drug use, Smoking, Obesity, Alcohol, Sports Injuries are all lifestyle choices, they are not illnesses.
If you wish them to be treated on the NHS then put your hand in your pocket and cough up.
For it's original purpose the NHS is well funded. For all these addons it is not.

 

[Amarillo]

Do you think there will be a great difference in the final death toll

Yes - I think there will. What is more, I think that difference is quantifiable with access to the right data.

At the moment about 50% of CV patients on ventilators survive. If the NHS becomes so overwhelmed with patients needing ventilators that it runs out of capacity I would expect the survival rate of those needing ventilators to be close to 0%.

All you need to calculate an estimate of the number of lives saved by the restrictions to keep the NHS within capacity is an estimate of the fatalities from an uncontrolled virus, the period of time for these fatalities, the number of ventilators and the average length of time a CV patient is on the ventilator.

You then need to compare that figure with a estimate of the number of lives lost due to the lockdown.

 

[Jools]

Do some research, there is NO VACCINE to SARS despite 17years to find one, as to Half a million deaths wait and see if we exceed the 2015 total of 45,000 from flu (probably 47,000 in 2010 and much higher in 1999)
If you like false statistics/ opinions continue to listen to IMPERIAL COLLEGE (Bill gates funded £50M last 17 years) and Johns Hopkins similarly funded to a much higher level. Try and find other virologist's opinions in the mainstream media, you don't!
Also note the wording is Covid related deaths being reported. If I have a stroke/heart attack, test positive and die, did I die of the stroke/heart attack or the virus alone? Think outside the box as to what is going on!

There are Coronavirus vaccines. Don't believe the fake news items saying there are not. DA2PPC vaccine is a multivalent canine vaccine ... your dog may well have had it. The C at the end refers to canine Coronavirus the other bits are distemper, parainfluenza etc etc. There is a similar canine coronavirus vaccine. The reason we have these is that there is a demand so the research is funded. There is also a Human SARS vaccine ... it is not licensed and did not get to market ( my nephew is a patent lawyer and worked on it) it wasn't perfect but the reason it is not complete is that there is now no demand as SARS never took off in the same way and other measures controlled it. There are currently over 100 vaccine candidates being developed for COVid....and at least one is based on the incomplete SARS vaccine; there is sufficient money involved in this research and we will have a vaccine within 12 months

 

[Jools]

If you are puzzled then I'm afraid that is your problem.
Virtually none of these conditions were around or treatable when the NHS was formed.
Infertility - Why is that a NHS problem, unless caused by surgery for another problem. It is not a god-given right to have a child. Some can and some can't.
Drug use, Smoking, Obesity, Alcohol, Sports Injuries are all lifestyle choices, they are not illnesses.
If you wish them to be treated on the NHS then put your hand in your pocket and cough up.
For it's original purpose the NHS is well funded. For all these addons it is not.

Ok. So the original purpose of the NHS was to apply a few bandages and treat TB ..... and a few other things. No cancer surgery, no hole in the heart surgery, almost no antibiotics, no blood pressure treatment, no effective mental health treatment etc etc etc. Medical knowledge has changed and hence costs are higher. To base what you treat on what was envisioned in 1948 makes little sense.
Why is renal failure/tranplant, heart failure/transplant .. a choice? Similarly Obesity, alcoholism, drug addiction are not choices, they are all illnesses. I agree, society can choose not to pay for their treatment, but blaming patients for choosing to have those illnesses makes no sense. The Commonwealth study referred to above is very clear that the NHS is excellent value, we are not paying any where near as much as the French, Germans or Americans for health .... and on that basis I would argue we should fund the NHS more generously.

 

[Jools]

There are Coronavirus vaccines. Don't believe the fake news items saying there are not. DA2PPC vaccine is a multivalent canine vaccine ... your dog may well have had it. The C at the end refers to canine Coronavirus the other bits are distemper, parainfluenza etc etc. There is a similar canine coronavirus vaccine. The reason we have these is that there is a demand so the research is funded. There is also a Human SARS vaccine ... it is not licensed and did not get to market ( my nephew is a patent lawyer and worked on it) it wasn't perfect but the reason it is not complete is that there is now no demand as SARS never took off in the same way and other measures controlled it. There are currently over 100 vaccine candidates being developed for COVid....and at least one is based on the incomplete SARS vaccine; there is sufficient money involved in this research and we will have a vaccine within 12 months

Sorry. similar feline vaccine

 

[WelshGas]

Ok. So the original purpose of the NHS was to apply a few bandages and treat TB ..... and a few other things. No cancer surgery, no hole in the heart surgery, almost no antibiotics, no blood pressure treatment, no effective mental health treatment etc etc etc. Medical knowledge has changed and hence costs are higher. To base what you treat on what was envisioned in 1948 makes little sense.
Why is renal failure/tranplant, heart failure/transplant .. a choice? Similarly Obesity, alcoholism, drug addiction are not choices, they are all illnesses. I agree, society can choose not to pay for their treatment, but blaming patients for choosing to have those illnesses makes no sense. The Commonwealth study referred to above is very clear that the NHS is excellent value, we are not paying any where near as much as the French, Germans or Americans for health .... and on that basis I would argue we should fund the NHS more generously.

Incorrect. There was cancer surgery , there was the start of antibiotic therapy and rudimentary therapy for many other conditions. You would be surprised what was medically/surgically possible back in the 1940’s.

But when grossly obese patients demand bariatric surgery instead of the pain of keeping their mouths shut and exercising to lose weight then questions need to be asked why the public have to pay for it.
Likewise IVF. Why should that be a “Right” under the NHS.

The NHS will never be adequately funded until it’s remit is defined.

A simple question. Should the NHS be responsible for sobering up the drunks every Friday and Saturday night?

It involves a medic and a nurse for each patient + facilities etc. I would say No, it is not in their remit, BUT it could be an excellent opportunity to generate funds. £400 / drunk. 7 days to pay or the bailiffs sent in.

Or would you define that as an illness?

 

[Mickyb123]

You lot are unreal! What was the opening thread? It was someone saying thanks and showing appreciation for NHS.
why not keep it that way