Which electric car to buy?

[blondebier]

Who pays it? The good old "taxpayer".

I suppose the issue with tax payer subsidised incentives is that they aren't scalable and will all come to an end.

Ordinary folk who haven't got £x,000s burning a hole in their pocket won't be able to invest in renewables in the same way as their more affluent country men/women.

To ordinary folk (dare I say, "the majority"), running an EV is just not an attractive and in some cases even an attainable option for them.

The incentives and tax breaks that drive the amazing stories on this post just aren't available to the average Joe or Josephine and probably never will be.

 

[subthree]

Out of interest, what solar array (size/location) do you have, to generate that? It's interesting to hear of someone with actual data from a real-world system.

I started to look at it last year, but now missed the boat - very long lead times now for new installations.

We have 13 Sharp 185W panels facing due south and another 6 panels facing due west. They were installed by the previous owner, we moved in just over 6 years ago.

Annual generation is very consistent 3,200-3,300kWh. 2021 was low with 3,000kWh.

 

[subthree]

To ordinary folk (dare I say, "the majority"), running an EV is just not an attractive and in some cases even an attainable option for them.

We do not own an EV, nor do we have an "aspiration" to buy one.

Median UK salary is circa £33k. A "normal" family, entry level EV (Kia EV6) is circa £50k. It just isn't going to happen for the majority of people.

UK annual full-time salary 2023 | Statista

Average annual earnings for full-time workers in the UK increased in 2023, after a small decline between 2020 and 2021.

www.statista.com

 

[blondebier]

We do not own an EV, nor do we have an "aspiration" to buy one.

Median UK salary is circa £33k. A "normal" family, entry level EV (Kia EV6) is circa £50k. It just isn't going to happen for the majority of people.

UK annual full-time salary 2023 | Statista

Average annual earnings for full-time workers in the UK increased in 2023, after a small decline between 2020 and 2021.

www.statista.com

I'm probably not going to get another one when my lease ends in 12 months time.

It's been fun whilst it was relatively cheap (low bik) to lease and charge, but real world use doesn't make me feel like I'd miss it all that much.

The other vehicles in the house and my half price ebike (thank you CycleScheme) are perfectly adequate.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

I suppose the issue with tax payer subsidised incentives is that they aren't scalable and will all come to an end.

Ordinary folk who haven't got £x,000s burning a hole in their pocket won't be able to invest in renewables in the same way as their more affluent country men/women.

To ordinary folk (dare I say, "the majority"), running an EV is just not an attractive and in some cases even an attainable option for them.

The incentives and tax breaks that drive the amazing stories on this post just aren't available to the average Joe or Josephine and probably never will be.

Our panels were zero rated, but already paid 40% tax on our income that was used to pay for the panels. The government focus is more on encouraging households to part generate their own power to reduce demand on the grid. We would have still had fitted regardless of ICE/EV (or both) vehicle choice. But ideally you need a South facing roof, or, if not possible can instead do a 50/50 Split East + West facing.

But be warned..my parents made the mistake of leasing their roofspace to a solar company abt 10 years ago. So they got PV generated electric for free in the day, PV installer received the subsidy on any excess generation that was sold to the National Grid; Sounds great but issue occurs when you try to sell the property as many mortgage providers will withdraw the mortgage offer when they find out that a property with leased roof space. Current price to buy the panels (and tariff income) from the solar lease company is currently £17k(!) on the sliding scale which gets closer to zero as you reach 25yrs...of course if you purchase then you transfer / receive the FIT payments at the older higher rate.

 

[pjm-84]

That's a good deal.

Who ends up paying for the 63p / kWh subsidy?

FITs tarrif so not a subsidy. Open to all at the time who had the ability to install PVs. Could have borrowed the money and paid it back in 3 to 4yrs.

I tried to pursuade a few to take up the offer but the usual rhetoic came back. Waste of time, its a con, they will go wrong, just you wait......blah, blah, blah, electric is cheap so whats the point..... waste of money, can buy a car for that....... you start to get my drift. The odd one was "I wouldnt have PVs on my house if you paid me" ?????. (Always found that funny). Was going to buy a car so ended up with PVs.

A similar "negavitivity" we see on here against EVs. Dont get my wrong I dont like or dislike EVs. I just call out non statements where these are made because the rhetoic is wearing thin.

Actually I bought a 9yr old Volvo XC70 recently due to the mileage I will have to do in the next year or so. Again a no brainer.

 

[pjm-84]

Median UK salary is circa £33k. A "normal" family, entry level EV (Kia EV6) is circa £50k. It just isn't going to happen for the majority of people.

We paid £28.5k for the first edition ID3 back in Dec 2020. Now worth 30k?

 

[pjm-84]

We are on the old Feed in Tariff that was around circa 10 years ago. We get paid 52p per kWh. We get that payment for another 15 years from now. We generate 3,300kWh per year, so around £1700 per year tax free.

Who pays it? The good old "taxpayer".

Incorrect. The FITs is paid by the consumer. So the energy companies pay and claim this back via their customers. Think of it as a PFI scheme that was very generous and offered great returns.

 

[pjm-84]

20 KwH in to enable me to get to Southampton

If you go to Southampton, note there is free charging in the multi storey car parks. Just bring a cable. The one at the back of the Mayflower is my local.

 

[blondebier]

Our local Tesco's podpoints are no longer free.

From the start of November they're charging 28p/kWh.

I wonder if that's a nationwide thing?

I suppose with the cost of electricity going up they couldn't sustain it? (Even with a roof covered in solar panels)

 

[pjm-84]

Probably. Southampton also considering the same.

Council set to bring in fees for electric vehicle charging - and ban company vans

COMMERCIAL van drivers could be banned from city council car parks after businesses were spotted charging their vehicles up for free.

www.dailyecho.co.uk

Ironically we were invited, but declined a PV venture between EDF / Tesco in the south.

 

[danvan]

We do not own an EV, nor do we have an "aspiration" to buy one.

Median UK salary is circa £33k. A "normal" family, entry level EV (Kia EV6) is circa £50k. It just isn't going to happen for the majority of people.

UK annual full-time salary 2023 | Statista

Average annual earnings for full-time workers in the UK increased in 2023, after a small decline between 2020 and 2021.

www.statista.com

An MG4 starts at £25k, a Nissan Leaf £29k, both electric. A similarly sized Ford Focus (petrol) starts at £27k and is a comparable size. Based on that, I'd say EVs were as affordable as a new ICE car. But clearly new cars aren't affordable for all, and for those there is the used market (which given their recent introduction, won't include EVs at all price points).

 

[Ch1pbutty]

An MG4 starts at £25k, a Nissan Leaf £29k, both electric. A similarly sized Ford Focus (petrol) starts at £27k and is a comparable size. Based on that, I'd say EVs were as affordable as a new ICE car. But clearly new cars aren't affordable for all, and for those there is the used market (which given their recent introduction, won't include EVs at all price points).

People can always lease for 12 months to see if EV's work for them. If they dont like them, just hand it back at the end of the term.

 

[andyinluton]

People can always lease for 12 months to see if EV's work for them. If they dont like them, just hand it back at the end of the term.

Where are these 12 month lease deals? - taking the MG4 as a "cheap" EV shortest I can find is 24 months for 5k miles per year & that costs £13500 in total for the 2 years. Thats a lot to shell out just to see if it works.

An electric VW up costs the same to lease over 3 years as you would pay to buy a petrol one. As there is no residual value on a lease it makes it massively more expensive to buy Lease electric.

 

[2into1]

High spec Corsa for 3 years and 10k miles / annum for £13k overall

 

[andyinluton]

High spec Corsa for 3 years and 10k miles / annum for £13k overall

Found a few like that, I'm looking for the 12month lease for poor people, so I can just try it & hand it back after a year if its not for me alluded to above.

 

[2into1]

Found a few like that, I'm looking for the 12month lease for poor people, so I can just try it & hand it back after a year if its not for me alluded to above.

I think that is OnTo's reason for being. Don't know how competitive they are if you decide to keep it longer..

All-Inclusive Electric Car Subscriptions | Onto

Onto is an electric car subscription service that is more flexible than leasing. Electric cars available with insurance, charging & maintenance. Switch to Onto today!

on.to

 

[andyinluton]

I think that is OnTo's reason for being. Don't know how competitive they are if you decide to keep it longer..

All-Inclusive Electric Car Subscriptions | Onto

Onto is an electric car subscription service that is more flexible than leasing. Electric cars available with insurance, charging & maintenance. Switch to Onto today!

on.to

Thanks, £500/month for a 2nd hand fiat 500 & limited to 750miles but only 1 month commitment & includes insurance.
As a permanent car thats a lot, but as a try before you buy alternative its not bad, biggest drawback would be not having charging facilities other than a 3 pin plug at home.

 

[2into1]

but only 1 month commitment & includes insurance.

And charging is free if the allowed providers are practical for you. I suppose you can use the 3 pin plug for practice discipline of domestic charging.

 

[GrannyJen]

Thanks, £500/month for a 2nd hand fiat 500 & limited to 750miles but only 1 month commitment & includes insurance.
As a permanent car thats a lot, but as a try before you buy alternative its not bad, biggest drawback would be not having charging facilities other than a 3 pin plug at home.

750 niles per month is roughly 200 KwH so about 4 hours a day plugged into a 3 pin should be adequate.

Of course it depends on type of driving. I got home today with 9% charge remaining so if I'm going to be doing another 150 miles tomorrow, which would be equal to 40% of the monthly allowance in two days, then I would probably think about popping out to Sainsbury's to do some shopping whilst I charge my car up.

Otherwise, for normal everyday driving, my three-pin socket, charging for sunshine hours only, has been perfectly adequate. The reason I was quite low when setting off today was the last few days weather has not seen much sunshine and I'm still seeing how far I can go using what comes off my PV's alone.

 

[pjm-84]

I swapped my Rolec out for a Zappi to allow power to be taken from renewables before grid. It also allows me to stop and start the charge from my phone and review historical data / patterns.

 

[soulstyledevon]

This was interesting

 

[pjm-84]

i was going to be facetious. ...... but alas I'm too tired.

Added a timer installation to my immersion heater this evening. Wiring up the 2.5mm was a pain, even though the timer could accommodate 2.5mm. Always heated the HW from the gas but the storage battery can now undertake this task.

 

[soulstyledevon]

This is gonna be Marmite.
But I love it and hope they work on a production model.

 

[Wondering Star]

Does anyone know what's the most cost effective way of heating a hot water tank.
Electricity at 15p kw or oil fired boiler?