Which electric car to buy?

[pjm-84]

Solar ain't gonna cut it in the UK. With the Uk only receiving an average of 1500 hours sunshine per year, assuming 10 hours per day, that equates to 150 days when the sun is generating electrical output. What about the other 215 days?

Nope, solar farms in space is the only option

How solar farms in space might beam electricity to Earth

The UK government is supporting projects to put solar panels in space and beam energy back to Earth.

www.bbc.com

Thats quite funny.

Today 3kWh
Yesterday 7.2kWh
Last week 55.9kWh (generation every day)
So far this month 148.2kwh (generation every day)
Last month 167.2kWh (generation every day but the Jan 10th is really low at 0.2)

For the last two seasons of last year our PVs generated >1600kWh.

Remember this is winter so come summer time it will be lot more.

 

[GrannyJen]

Solar ain't gonna cut it in the UK. With the Uk only receiving an average of 1500 hours sunshine per year, assuming 10 hours per day, that equates to 150 days when the sun is generating electrical output. What about the other 215 days?

Nope, solar farms in space is the only option

How solar farms in space might beam electricity to Earth

The UK government is supporting projects to put solar panels in space and beam energy back to Earth.

www.bbc.com

My reaction the same as @pjm-84

This month so far:

Exported 147
Imported 240

By March I would expect to be exporting more than I import and by April, through to October, to be barely importing anything at all whilst exporting lots. Still only in my first year after panels were installed so have no idea where I'm going to be summertime but in August last year my import was zero. No idea what my export was as the new smart meter not installed until the end of September.

 

[johnyboy]

Looks like we might import some solar https://octopus.energy/press/octopu...r-7-million-heat-pumps-with-cheap-green-power

 

[soulstyledevon]

We have about a dozen ZipCars within a one mile radius.
Rates:
- £0 per month plus £9 per hour/£85 per day, or;
- £6 per month plus £7 per hour/£68 per day (first hour each month £1), or;
- £15 per month plus £6 per hr/£60 per day (first 2hr 30 included each month)

Hire car/Taxi/bus cost comparison for taking mum out to lunch
3 hours ZipCar (30m driving each way plus 2h lunch) : £27 on the £0 plan
6.5 miles each way (£7 first 1.5 miles plus £2.20 per mile) : £36 by taxi
Bus fare (£1.65 each way, mum uses her pass) : £3.30 by bus

Can’t remember the costs off hand.
It’s through Hiya car.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

Thats quite funny.

Today 3kWh
Yesterday 7.2kWh
Last week 55.9kWh (generation every day)
So far this month 148.2kwh (generation every day)
Last month 167.2kWh (generation every day but the Jan 10th is really low at 0.2)

For the last two seasons of last year our PVs generated >1600kWh.

Remember this is winter so come summer time it will be lot more.

In fairness I think he didn’t necessarily mean roof solar for private household use.

 

[erik.godderis]

This is a interesting start up project.

The Sion - the car that charges itself | Sono Motors

The Sion is the first series-ready solar electric vehicle that is able to charge the battery via the power of the sun. All this for just €29,900

sonomotors.com

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A536B met Tapatalk

 

[Lambeth Cali]

Up until a week ago, as a family, we ran two electric cars (a BMW i3 and a Polestar) alongside our Cali, The i3 came to the end of its 18 month contact hire period so I handed it back to the Contract Hire company. I was curious to see what it was actually worth, so I We Buy Any Car'd it. I was amazed that the value came out at £16,500 (21 Plate with only 6,000 miles on the clock). This valuation seems to reflect the general downward trend of BEV values. However, it means that it is likely to retail at under £20,000. At this sort of price an i3 is a great proposition. If you can live with a real world range of around 140-160 miles, it is a really smart, comfortable option which costs pennies to run (if you charge it at home).

I’ve had our Golf Gti since 2008 and love it The Cali is 2008 and will probably stay with us until I’m too old to drive it. I like keeping vehicles. Neither are run in yet, mileage wise. The Cali will never rust and the Golf seems ok so far.

I like the idea of running the i3 for 15 years. People are so enthusiastic about them and I love how they look. Nothing compares. Should never rust. Carbon fibre chassis and I’m guessing the panels are carbon fibre or plastic? It even seems possible to add CarPlay to an older one, so that will never go out of date. My new job is a 22 mile return commute.

I then thought I could replace the battery if needed if I bought a 3 or 4 year old one. I found they cost about £1500 which seemed reasonable but then discovered they apparently have 8!
But then just read they are designed to do 4000 cycles which is 400,000 miles!? If that is even 1/4 true, that would cover us just fine. £20k for a used one with new spec seems good.

 

[WestSussexSpike]

I’ve had our Golf Gti since 2008 and love it The Cali is 2008 and will probably stay with us until I’m too old to drive it. I like keeping vehicles. Neither are run in yet, mileage wise. The Cali will never rust and the Golf seems ok so far.

I like the idea of running the i3 for 15 years. People are so enthusiastic about them and I love how they look. Nothing compares. Should never rust. Carbon fibre chassis and I’m guessing the panels are carbon fibre or plastic? It even seems possible to add CarPlay to an older one, so that will never go out of date. My new job is a 22 mile return commute.

I then thought I could replace the battery if needed if I bought a 3 or 4 year old one. I found they cost about £1500 which seemed reasonable but then discovered they apparently have 8!
But then just read they are designed to do 4000 cycles which is 400,000 miles!? If that is even 1/4 true, that would cover us just fine. £20k for a used one with new spec seems good.

I'm pretty sure that the panels are made of a composite material. Incidentally, i3 batteries come with an 8 year transferrable warranty so if you bought a 3 year old i3 you would enjoy 5 years of warranty.

 

[SusiBus]

I’ve had our Golf Gti since 2008 and love it The Cali is 2008 and will probably stay with us until I’m too old to drive it. I like keeping vehicles. Neither are run in yet, mileage wise. The Cali will never rust and the Golf seems ok so far.

I like the idea of running the i3 for 15 years. People are so enthusiastic about them and I love how they look. Nothing compares. Should never rust. Carbon fibre chassis and I’m guessing the panels are carbon fibre or plastic? It even seems possible to add CarPlay to an older one, so that will never go out of date. My new job is a 22 mile return commute.

I then thought I could replace the battery if needed if I bought a 3 or 4 year old one. I found they cost about £1500 which seemed reasonable but then discovered they apparently have 8!
But then just read they are designed to do 4000 cycles which is 400,000 miles!? If that is even 1/4 true, that would cover us just fine. £20k for a used one with new spec seems good.

We've had a Golf GTI Mk 4 Anniversary since 2003 and like you love it, really love it. Had our ID.Buzz for 5 weeks, also really love it, but it is a big beast for tight town work and the narrow lanes, 5" wider than a Cali!

 

[Amarillo]

Solar ain't gonna cut it in the UK. With the Uk only receiving an average of 1500 hours sunshine per year, assuming 10 hours per day, that equates to 150 days when the sun is generating electrical output. What about the other 215 days?

Nope, solar farms in space is the only option

How solar farms in space might beam electricity to Earth

The UK government is supporting projects to put solar panels in space and beam energy back to Earth.

www.bbc.com

Nearly 5% of Britain’s electricity comes from solar (I am assuming that “year” is the past 365 days, not year to date. But it might be 1 Jan 2022 to 31 December 2022.

What is really significant is that solar now generates three times more electricity than coal.

 

[pjm-84]

In fairness I think he didn’t necessarily mean roof solar for private household use.

Same panels be it domestic or commercial. The implication was that we didnt have sun for the other 215days of the year.

 

[Corradobrit]

In fairness I think he didn’t necessarily mean roof solar for private household use.

Exactly, I was referring to panels supplying power to the National Grid.
Looking at the official National Grid stats, solar accounted for 7.2-7.3% of the total power generation in the summer months last year. Those numbers plummeted to less than 1% in Dec 2022.

 

[pjm-84]

Thats not what you said hence I found it amusing. Solar does change during the seasons. Similar to wind farms having a lower efficency when its not windy. This is factored in.

Of 138 buildings in my estate only 3 have solar panels fitted. Now if we rolled that out across the UK do you think the figures above would increase.

Solar power by country - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Calimili]

Thats not what you said hence I found it amusing. Solar does change during the seasons. Similar to wind farms having a lower efficency when its not windy. This is factored in.

Of 138 buildings in my estate only 3 have solar panels fitted. Now if we rolled that out across the UK do you think the figures above would increase.

Solar power by country - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

what would be interesting to calculate, is how much real estate does the average household has to be dedicated to solar panels.
You provided some figures of your electricity generation capacity, we would have to see in a year, including summer months with more light hours, but also the rainy days etc. Also don't know if you still had room to put additional solar panels if you wanted/needed to.
If we start planning to charge an EV and also heat with electricity, looking at the figures of avg yearly mileage and avg Kwh/mile, one will need no less than 15 kWh per day on avg. to cover everything.
But if you live in a block of flat it's going to be tough..

 

[pjm-84]

Here is the Inverter data for the PV system not via CT clamps off the battery storage.

Feb 2023 - 144.1kWh - (lowest 1 / highest 13.9) - not a complete month
Jan 2023 - 148.8 kWh - (lowest 0.3 / highest 11.1)
Dec 2022 - 120.1 kWh - (lowest 0.07! / highest 9.8)
Nov 2022 - 154.4 kWh - (lowest 0.5 / highest 11.8)
Oct 2022 - 280.7 kWh - (lowest 2.4 / highest 16.1)
Sept 2022 - 310.2 kWh - (lowest 2.8 / highest 18)
Aug 2022 - 451.9 kWh - (lowest 4 / highest 21)
Jul 2022 - 504.1 kWh - (lowest 9 / highest 21.5)
Jun 2022 - 489.1 kWh - (lowest 5.2 / highest 23.1)
May 2022 - 441.9 kWh - (lowest 5.8 / highest 23.2)
April 2022 - 439.7 kWh - (lowest 4.3 / highest 20.9)
Mar 2022 - 340.1 kWh - (lowest 0.9 / highest 19.3)
Feb 2022 - 196.1 kWh - (lowest 0.3 / highest 16.9)

So Feb 2022 to Jan 2023 = 3388 kWh / average for 365 days = 9.2kWh
Never a zero but some low days Nov to March
Massive disparity Nov to March

FITs circa 63p from April onwards with export and approx 58p prior to April

Boring but also interesting at the same time

 

[Digger]

Here is the Inverter data for the PV system not via CT clamps off the battery storage.

Feb 2023 - 144.1kWh - (lowest 1 / highest 13.9) - not a complete month
Jan 2023 - 148.8 kWh - (lowest 0.3 / highest 11.1)
Dec 2022 - 120.1 kWh - (lowest 0.07! / highest 9.8)
Nov 2022 - 154.4 kWh - (lowest 0.5 / highest 11.8)
Oct 2022 - 280.7 kWh - (lowest 2.4 / highest 16.1)
Sept 2022 - 310.2 kWh - (lowest 2.8 / highest 18)
Aug 2022 - 451.9 kWh - (lowest 4 / highest 21)
Jul 2022 - 504.1 kWh - (lowest 9 / highest 21.5)
Jun 2022 - 489.1 kWh - (lowest 5.2 / highest 23.1)
May 2022 - 441.9 kWh - (lowest 5.8 / highest 23.2)
April 2022 - 439.7 kWh - (lowest 4.3 / highest 20.9)
Mar 2022 - 340.1 kWh - (lowest 0.9 / highest 19.3)
Feb 2022 - 196.1 kWh - (lowest 0.3 / highest 16.9)

So Feb 2022 to Jan 2023 = 3388 kWh / average for 365 days = 9.2kWh
Never a zero but some low days Nov to March
Massive disparity Nov to March

FITs circa 63p from April onwards with export and approx 58p prior to April

Boring but also interesting at the same time

What if you lived about 500 miles north of London. We don't get that long days over winter months and no way would solar cover its costs.

 

[66tim99]

My reaction the same as @pjm-84

This month so far:

Exported 147
Imported 240

By March I would expect to be exporting more than I import and by April, through to October, to be barely importing anything at all whilst exporting lots. Still only in my first year after panels were installed so have no idea where I'm going to be summertime but in August last year my import was zero. No idea what my export was as the new smart meter not installed until the end of September.

Very interesting. I tried 10 years ago to get solar on the roof of my block of flats, to no avail.
A battery would allow you to keep most if not all of those exported kWh. I wonder how long it would take to cover the £2,000 cost?

 

[larrylamb]

What if you lived about 500 miles north of London. We don't get that long days over winter months and no way would solar cover its costs.

Would that not average out with the longer summer days you have?

 

[Wildcamper]

Nearly 5% of Britain’s electricity comes from solar (I am assuming that “year” is the past 365 days, not year to date. But it might be 1 Jan 2022 to 31 December 2022.

What is really significant is that solar now generates three times more electricity than coal.

Solar being more significant than coal is no surprise when coal is being removed from the statistics.

 

[Velma's Dad]

What if you lived about 500 miles north of London. We don't get that long days over winter months and no way would solar cover its costs.

That depends on lots of things doesn't it. The future kWh cost of grid electricity for one thing. My brother-in-law has just put in a large-ish ground based solar array in SW Scotland and the numbers looked pretty good when he showed me although I can't recall the specifics. Obviously the pay-back time is going to be several years, no-one is expecting you "cover costs" in year one and of course that is going to be a barrier for a lot of people who don't have spare capital even though the ROI is pretty good compared with a lot of other investments. Also I suspect (no evidence) that putting a good quality PV/battery system in will usually add a commensurate amount to the value when you sell.

 

[Azteccamper]

Of 138 buildings in my estate only 3 have solar panels fitted. Now if we rolled that out across the UK do you think the figures above would increase.

……….. and we’re still building new houses with gas boilers - solar should be statutory now really on new builds?

 

[Velma's Dad]

……….. and we’re still building new houses with gas boilers - solar should be statutory now really on new builds?

Well I agree solar should be on new builds but that's not going to replace gas boilers (unless you also insist on extremely high insulation standard - not saying you shouldn't by the way).

Air source heat pumps will also be necessary to provide the winter heating base load, part supplied by the house PVs but mainly by grid leccy, which of course will increasingly be renewables-generated.

 

[Digger]

That depends on lots of things doesn't it. The future kWh cost of grid electricity for one thing. My brother-in-law has just put in a large-ish ground based solar array in SW Scotland and the numbers looked pretty good when he showed me although I can't recall the specifics. Obviously the pay-back time is going to be several years, no-one is expecting you "cover costs" in year one and of course that is going to be a barrier for a lot of people who don't have spare capital even though the ROI is pretty good compared with a lot of other investments. Also I suspect (no evidence) that putting a good quality PV/battery system in will usually add a commensurate amount to the value when you sell.

In the North it is far from the SW. We had a survey done and calculated pay back for a 12 panel system was estimated by them as 14 to 16 years. Wind farms are more efficient and nuclear beats them all hands down. As for myself I wish they would invest in tidal power.

 

[GrannyJen]

Very interesting. I tried 10 years ago to get solar on the roof of my block of flats, to no avail.
A battery would allow you to keep most if not all of those exported kWh. I wonder how long it would take to cover the £2,000 cost?

I have 5.5KwH Batteries, each £1,500. Early day's but I'm not sure they are worth it. In the summer I will have maximum 16.5 KwH stored which will be only useful in the few hours of darkness. If I started again I would have one less battery, giving me 12KwH stored which would power the house through the hours of darkness. For the three months just gone, Nov, Dec, Jan, I doubt if in any one day I would have enough surplus to fully charge the batteries. I do get something for the surplus, currently averaging 9p per KwH.

 

[2into1]

From today's telegraph... Lamenting the lack of charging points.
"Nearly a third of charging points are in London, with Westminster alone having more than Liverpool, Manchester, Newcastle upon Tyne, Leeds, Sheffield and Birmingham combined".
So if us Northerners seem less than enthusiastic, this might explain some of the difference.