Is it ok for AI to use data from this site? I just used it to help solve a problem so do we need forums like this anymore?

[thomasamoht]

I’ve had help from this fantastic group several times and today you’ve helped me begin to resolve another problem I have with my ehu charger. I found someone who had the same problem before and how they resolved it. I also posted myself about the procedure to remove the charger and the usual helpful responses came promptly back to help.
I was having a separate conversation with my wife about AI and its real world applications when I wondered if it would have helped me with my VW California problem.
I was astonished with how quick and concise the answer was. This was the conversation…

“What’s the easiest way to remove the ehu charger from a 2021 VW California Ocean?”

“Removing the EHU (Electric Hook-Up) charger from a 2021 VW California Ocean isn’t a particularly straightforward task, as it’s integrated into the vehicle’s electrical system and tucked away in a somewhat awkward location. The charger is typically located above the rear leisure battery, at the base of the rear wardrobe, accessible via a hatch in the boot on the left-hand side. Here’s a step-by-step guide to make the process as easy as possible, based on general knowledge of the T6.1 Ocean layout:

### Tools You’ll Need:
- A set of screwdrivers (Phillips and flathead)
- A trim removal tool (plastic, to avoid scratching)
- A torch or headlamp (it’s a tight, dark space)
- Possibly a socket set or spanner (depending on the mounting bolts)

### Steps:
1. **Safety First:**
- Disconnect the van from any EHU power source to avoid electrical hazards.
- Turn off the vehicle and ensure the ignition is off.
- For extra caution, disconnect the leisure battery terminals (negative first) to prevent any live current while working.

2. **Locate the Charger:**
- Open the boot and look on the left-hand side (driver’s side in the UK) near the wheel arch. There’s a small access hatch at the base of the wardrobe, close to where the rear leisure battery sits.
- You might need to remove some items from the boot or wardrobe to get clear access.

3. **Remove the Access Panel:**
- The hatch is usually secured with screws or clips. Use a screwdriver or trim tool to carefully remove the panel. If it’s clipped, gently pry it loose—don’t force it, as plastic parts can snap.
- Shine a light in there to spot the charger—it’s a rectangular unit with a mains lead (kettle-type plug) going into it.

4. **Disconnect the Wiring:**
- Unplug the mains lead from the charger (it’s on the left side of the unit). This is the 230V input from the EHU socket.
- Identify the output wires (12V) going to the leisure battery. These might be secured with spade connectors or screws—loosen or unplug them carefully. Note their positions (take a photo) for reinstallation or troubleshooting later.
- Check for any grounding wires or additional connections and disconnect those too.

5. **Remove the Charger:**
- The charger is typically mounted with bolts or screws to a bracket. Use a screwdriver or socket set to undo these fixings. They might be tight due to the factory install, so apply steady pressure.
- Once unbolted, wiggle the charger free. Space is cramped, so you may need to angle it carefully to pull it out through the hatch.

6. **Double-Check:**
- Ensure no cables are still attached before fully removing it.
- Inspect the charger and surrounding area for any signs of damage or loose connections that might have prompted the removal.

### Tips for Ease:
- **Work Smart, Not Hard:** If the hatch feels too restrictive, some owners suggest removing more of the wardrobe trim for better access, but this adds time and complexity. Stick to the hatch unless you’re comfortable dismantling more.
- **Use Your Phone:** If you can’t see well, take photos or videos with your phone’s torch on to guide your hands—others have found this helpful in tight spots.
- **Patience is Key:** It’s fiddly, not physically demanding. Take breaks if you’re getting frustrated.

### Why It’s Not “Easy”:
The charger’s location is designed for integration, not frequent removal, so VW didn’t prioritize accessibility. If you’re not confident with electrical systems or tight spaces, it might be worth consulting a professional or a VW specialist to avoid damaging wiring or trim.

If this is your first time tackling it, expect it to take 30-60 minutes depending on your familiarity with the van. Let me know if you’re doing this for a specific reason (e.g., replacement or fault)—I can tailor the advice further!”

My first thought was wow how useful and quick. Followed by, what a shame if we no longer needed groups like this one. Then I saw from some of the sources that a lot of that information came from this site. From us. If there was no longer groups like this posting though where would it draw its data from?

I’m sorry for the long post but I suppose what I’m thinking is although useful, is this a good thing?

 

[The Tall Luthier]

AI is very impressive but it has one incredibly weak floor inherent in the system.
It’s great at scraping the internet for information and presenting it to the end user.

However from this point on AI is scraping its own content, not yours. This will become much more prevalent as time goes on and people publish their AI output.

And here’s the rub, it has been shown that it can only do about four iterations of repeatedly using its own output as input, after that it starts spitting gobbledygook.

This was shown to be the case with image generation where AI created a 1000 images from a descriptor. The images were then used to feed the model and it was asked again. After four iterations the images were worthless.

So as good as it is, humans will still be required for a time yet.

 

[Kayleigh]

It’s ok until it gives you incorrect information.

 

[thomasamoht]

AI is very impressive but it has one incredibly weak floor inherent in the system.
It’s great at scraping the internet for information and presenting it to the end user.

However from this point on AI is scraping its own content, not yours. This will become much more prevalent as time goes on and people publish their AI output.

And here’s the rub, it has been shown that it can only do about four iterations of repeatedly using its own output as input, after that it starts spitting gobbledygook.

This was shown to be the case with image generation where AI created a 1000 images from a descriptor. The images were then used to feed the model and it was asked again. After four iterations the images were worthless.

So as good as it is, humans will still be required for a time yet.

Good. We’ll see then. I prefer you lot anyway.

 

[thomasamoht]

It’s ok until it gives you incorrect information.

Yes though to be fair that’s what I was expecting. I was just surprised at the speed and how well it collated the information, then I saw most of that information came from VW California Club and T6 forum. Didn’t seem fair to use their years of hard work putting people together and collating posts for some bug AI company to profit

 

[vmaxkiddy]

Yes though to be fair that’s what I was expecting. I was just surprised at the speed and how well it collated the information, then I saw most of that information came from VW California Club and T6 forum. Didn’t seem fair to use their years of hard work putting people together and collating posts for some bug AI company to profit

Which is exactly why artists, writers, musicians etc are so against Starmers proposed “opt out” over the copyright laws.

 

[dspuk]

TBH this is exactly what AI is great for. Giving high level summaries quickly and efficiently. There should be an option on here for people who seem unable to use Google or search that suggests the answer before they have finished typing out the question using this site and the wider internet for info.

We use it all the time in my company, sensibly, and are building products using it to add onto software we build.

AI (or more accurately, LLM learning programmes) must be taken in context though and you need to know how they work to get the best out of them. It's a massive goto programme using 0's and 1's that has history, but no experience or context. They are not even writing our sentances with any intelligence - they are guessing the structure of a sentance based on a very complex algorithm. Hence why we have the AI "hallucination" issue. It can be wrong and requires a skilled eye to spot that.

As said above though, without the experience and context we have provided here by doing the hard work, the LLM has nothing, so we need to be careful to continue to add our views and expertise to questions and answers in order to maintain a good quality of info.

AI is a massive chicken and egg where if we are not careful all we will be left with is a field of chickens and no eggs.

 

[Mehdime]

As above: right now is the golden age of gen AI because:

1. the vast majority of their training set was created by human and contains a good proportion of content that’s not complete non-sense.
2. AI companies are still heavily subsidised by VCs and allowed to operate at a massive loss, which means that they haven’t crippled their products with ads and other “revenue optimization” tricks.

Give it a few years and ChatGPT will be just as useless as Google is today. Bit right now, it’s awesome.

But again, as above: they’re nothing more than text-generation programs. They don’t actually understand any of the stuff they’re writing. And they’ve been trained to give answers - any answers, *not* to give accurate answers. Always keep that in mind.

For example, have a discussion with ChatGPT about a topic that you’re expert in and ask non-trivial questions that haven’t been answered a million times on the internet already and that would require ChatGPT to actually do some real research and put things together itself. You’ll very quickly see how what you get is complete and utter non-sense, but written in a very confident and authoritative manner.

So use the AI, understand its limitations and continue to help others in forums like this.

RE: is it fair for companies to profit from our content? In the case of forums like this, I personally participate for the love of it, not to make money. If my content helps even more people thanks to AI, happy days. If an AI company makes money thanks to my content , good for them. I wouldn’t have been able to monetise it myself anyway and I never intended to.

When it comes to AI companies stealing content from professional producers in order to put them out of business, then that’s a completely different debate.

 

[Steve1]

As above: right now is the golden age of gen AI because:

1. the vast majority of their training set was created by human and contains a good proportion of content that’s not complete non-sense.
2. AI companies are still heavily subsidised by VCs and allowed to operate at a massive loss, which means that they haven’t crippled their products with ads and other “revenue optimization” tricks.

Give it a few years and ChatGPT will be just as useless as Google is today. Bit right now, it’s awesome.

But again, as above: they’re nothing more than text-generation programs. They don’t actually understand any of the stuff they’re writing. And they’ve been trained to give answers - any answers, *not* to give accurate answers. Always keep that in mind.

For example, have a discussion with ChatGPT about a topic that you’re expert in and ask non-trivial questions that haven’t been answered a million times on the internet already and that would require ChatGPT to actually do some real research and put things together itself. You’ll very quickly see how what you get is complete and utter non-sense, but written in a very confident and authoritative manner.

"You’ll very quickly see how what you get is complete and utter non-sense, but written in a very confident and authoritative manner."

To be fair you get quite a lot of people like that too, they usually become managers

 

[Mehdime]

"You’ll very quickly see how what you get is complete and utter non-sense, but written in a very confident and authoritative manner."

To be fair you get quite a lot of people like that too, they usually become managers

Funny you say that. I was describing one of those managers to my wife the other day as a “human ChatGPT”

 

[KevH]

As said above though, without the experience and context we have provided here by doing the hard work, the LLM has nothing, so we need to be careful to continue to add our views and expertise to questions and answers in order to maintain a good quality of info.

Well said. Without relevant up to date real world input AI is increasingly useless.
As are ‘ChatGPT’ manages imo.

 

[TripleBee]

If forums like this weren't on the internet, then AI wouldn't find the correct information to give to you.
We can all stop feeding the forums, but then the AI will be useless.
AI is only good to give you the wanted info in a very quick way. The only thing is, if it will only find false info, it will give you the false info.
So, in short, yes, forums like this are the main source for solutions to our problems. The downside is, you will have to do the searching yourself. But that way, you can check for yourself if the found info is plausible or not.
If you trust AI blindly, you might find yourself in a lot of trouble is the given info is not correct.

 

[CamperFam]

As above: right now is the golden age of gen AI because:

1. the vast majority of their training set was created by human and contains a good proportion of content that’s not complete non-sense.
2. AI companies are still heavily subsidised by VCs and allowed to operate at a massive loss, which means that they haven’t crippled their products with ads and other “revenue optimization” tricks.

Give it a few years and ChatGPT will be just as useless as Google is today. Bit right now, it’s awesome.

But again, as above: they’re nothing more than text-generation programs. They don’t actually understand any of the stuff they’re writing. And they’ve been trained to give answers - any answers, *not* to give accurate answers. Always keep that in mind.

For example, have a discussion with ChatGPT about a topic that you’re expert in and ask non-trivial questions that haven’t been answered a million times on the internet already and that would require ChatGPT to actually do some real research and put things together itself. You’ll very quickly see how what you get is complete and utter non-sense, but written in a very confident and authoritative manner.

So use the AI, understand its limitations and continue to help others in forums like this.

RE: is it fair for companies to profit from our content? In the case of forums like this, I personally participate for the love of it, not to make money. If my content helps even more people thanks to AI, happy days. If an AI company makes money thanks to my content , good for them. I wouldn’t have been able to monetise it myself anyway and I never intended to.

When it comes to AI companies stealing content from professional producers in order to put them out of business, then that’s a completely different debate.

Golden Age of AI right now is because it helps us process information.

That'll end when it ends up processing us...with atomics.

 

[acer]

Going off the topic a little, the quality of the outputs are enhanced by the way in which ChatGPT is prompted. Some of you might be interested to know that there has even been discussion of introducing an undergraduate module at my daughter’s university on how best to use ChatGPT to solve maths problems. Currently, while ChatGPT is ok with basic maths it is pretty poor at solving higher level problems.

 

[.Billy Ocean.]

I use it a lot for help correcting formulas in Excel / Power BI where it can be extremely helpful in a way that google / trawling through forums isn’t…. But asking it for help with a simple crossword clue can very quickly highlight limitations.

 

[thomasamoht]

If forums like this weren't on the internet, then AI wouldn't find the correct information to give to you.
We can all stop feeding the forums, but then the AI will be useless.
AI is only good to give you the wanted info in a very quick way. The only thing is, if it will only find false info, it will give you the false info.
So, in short, yes, forums like this are the main source for solutions to our problems. The downside is, you will have to do the searching yourself. But that way, you can check for yourself if the found info is plausible or not.
If you trust AI blindly, you might find yourself in a lot of trouble is the given info is not correct.

That’s where I was at.

 

[Didi]

Tudo o que colocar on-line é usado pelos aplicativos, página web, IA, etc de qualquer maneira. O que eu faço é por manter-me anónimo e o menos identificável possível. Nada mais podemos fazer.

 

[Blue Yonder]

I’ve had help from this fantastic group several times and today you’ve helped me begin to resolve another problem I have with my ehu charger. I found someone who had the same problem before and how they resolved it. I also posted myself about the procedure to remove the charger and the usual helpful responses came promptly back to help.
I was having a separate conversation with my wife about AI and its real world applications when I wondered if it would have helped me with my VW California problem.
I was astonished with how quick and concise the answer was. This was the conversation…

“What’s the easiest way to remove the ehu charger from a 2021 VW California Ocean?”

“Removing the EHU (Electric Hook-Up) charger from a 2021 VW California Ocean isn’t a particularly straightforward task, as it’s integrated into the vehicle’s electrical system and tucked away in a somewhat awkward location. The charger is typically located above the rear leisure battery, at the base of the rear wardrobe, accessible via a hatch in the boot on the left-hand side. Here’s a step-by-step guide to make the process as easy as possible, based on general knowledge of the T6.1 Ocean layout:

### Tools You’ll Need:
- A set of screwdrivers (Phillips and flathead)
- A trim removal tool (plastic, to avoid scratching)
- A torch or headlamp (it’s a tight, dark space)
- Possibly a socket set or spanner (depending on the mounting bolts)

### Steps:
1. **Safety First:**
- Disconnect the van from any EHU power source to avoid electrical hazards.
- Turn off the vehicle and ensure the ignition is off.
- For extra caution, disconnect the leisure battery terminals (negative first) to prevent any live current while working.

2. **Locate the Charger:**
- Open the boot and look on the left-hand side (driver’s side in the UK) near the wheel arch. There’s a small access hatch at the base of the wardrobe, close to where the rear leisure battery sits.
- You might need to remove some items from the boot or wardrobe to get clear access.

3. **Remove the Access Panel:**
- The hatch is usually secured with screws or clips. Use a screwdriver or trim tool to carefully remove the panel. If it’s clipped, gently pry it loose—don’t force it, as plastic parts can snap.
- Shine a light in there to spot the charger—it’s a rectangular unit with a mains lead (kettle-type plug) going into it.

4. **Disconnect the Wiring:**
- Unplug the mains lead from the charger (it’s on the left side of the unit). This is the 230V input from the EHU socket.
- Identify the output wires (12V) going to the leisure battery. These might be secured with spade connectors or screws—loosen or unplug them carefully. Note their positions (take a photo) for reinstallation or troubleshooting later.
- Check for any grounding wires or additional connections and disconnect those too.

5. **Remove the Charger:**
- The charger is typically mounted with bolts or screws to a bracket. Use a screwdriver or socket set to undo these fixings. They might be tight due to the factory install, so apply steady pressure.
- Once unbolted, wiggle the charger free. Space is cramped, so you may need to angle it carefully to pull it out through the hatch.

6. **Double-Check:**
- Ensure no cables are still attached before fully removing it.
- Inspect the charger and surrounding area for any signs of damage or loose connections that might have prompted the removal.

### Tips for Ease:
- **Work Smart, Not Hard:** If the hatch feels too restrictive, some owners suggest removing more of the wardrobe trim for better access, but this adds time and complexity. Stick to the hatch unless you’re comfortable dismantling more.
- **Use Your Phone:** If you can’t see well, take photos or videos with your phone’s torch on to guide your hands—others have found this helpful in tight spots.
- **Patience is Key:** It’s fiddly, not physically demanding. Take breaks if you’re getting frustrated.

### Why It’s Not “Easy”:
The charger’s location is designed for integration, not frequent removal, so VW didn’t prioritize accessibility. If you’re not confident with electrical systems or tight spaces, it might be worth consulting a professional or a VW specialist to avoid damaging wiring or trim.

If this is your first time tackling it, expect it to take 30-60 minutes depending on your familiarity with the van. Let me know if you’re doing this for a specific reason (e.g., replacement or fault)—I can tailor the advice further!”

My first thought was wow how useful and quick. Followed by, what a shame if we no longer needed groups like this one. Then I saw from some of the sources that a lot of that information came from this site. From us. If there was no longer groups like this posting though where would it draw its data from?

I’m sorry for the long post but I suppose what I’m thinking is although useful, is this a good thing?

I find Deep Seek AI to be the best especially when ask for step by step guides. Scanning down your step by step guide I read that to remove the EHU flap you need, or it is best to remove part of the wardrobe unit. Often cited on forums too. However, the best way is just to unscrew the female socket pull out so you can reach and unscrew the self tapping nuts hold on the EHU plastic surround. I know this from having done it in order to have Paint Protection Film applied.