£37k Beaches

[bloomers100]

Oh yeah heated electric mirrors as well.

 

[Benny Saltstein]

I'm going for another look on Friday - we'll see if there's any scope for some accessories.

 

[PompeyCarl]

There's a fair few Beach's for sale on the VW Das Welt Auto website for under £37K. Worth a look to compare specifications. https://used.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/en/vehicles

 

[Borris]

No, just no new petrol, diesel, hybrid vehicles produced after 2035; Petrol and Diesel fuel will still be available, but how that fuel or vehicle will be taxed is not known yet.

So it'll be EVs or offerings from the Bedrock Auto Company then.

 

[Borris]

I think it is plausible that battery technology will have moved sufficiently over fifteen years and that there will be sufficient charging capacity. Already we are beginning to see the end of the petrol city car. The Skoda Citigo, for example, is now only available in electric.

We are straying well off topic here but briefly lets assume that you are correct and you may well be, my main concerns with this declaration are:

1. Will there be sufficient raw materials available in the years to come to service the run away world wide demand for batteries required for all applications, including many millions of EVs.

2. If or rather when there are shortages of raw materials, prices will rise and things may get sticky both for the economics of EVs and their future viability. Oil can be produced from sources all over the globe but as I understand it, the raw materials required to produce the necessary EV batteries are not. Throw the uncertainties of both global and national politics along with commercial greed into the equation and the future of EVs has to be considered uncertain.

3. Apparently, producing these raw materials is a filthy business which has in itself created numerous significant environmental issues in and around those locations . These would have to be properly addressed. We can't move headlong towards the adoption of these so called ultra green vehicles whilst conveniently ignoring the environmental damage being caused elsewhere in the world.

4. Battery recycling or rather the lack of it is also a major current problem globally. Investing in a future comprising almost exclusively of EVs without effectively resolving the recycling issue is worrying.


Now I am not an expert and I don't pretend to know that much about these issues. Instead I'm just an ordinary chap with some serious reservations about this policy decision. I can understand the current case for stopping sales of petrol and diesel vehilces but not the hybrids as well? You say that development of EVs and the associated infrastructure required will improve all lot in fifteen years and I'm sure you are right. However, I would like to think that the development of ultra clean petrol and diesel hybrid vehicles will also continue at pace. I know why they have done it but I would be surprised if this decision doesn't prove to be a problem to honour. Having all your transport eggs in one EV basket may not always be a good idea.

 

[Maxx]

Do you think 20% is achievable on a Beach? I'm being offered £37k on a 7 seater at a VW dealer currently. Includes parking sensors, Discovery nav, app connect but thats about it.

If it’s any use, that’s pretty much what I paid in December for a very similarly spec’d beach...also got a bike rack chucked in too.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

If it was me I would go for the older one with the better spec, as it’s all set up ready for a trip. The cost of aftermarket fittings soon add up and sometimes will result in a compromise in fit or quality.

Factory fitted extras will always be better come resale time and also you only need to visit one dealer if anything should fail; Rather than driving to the dealers to be told "it's your aftermarket heater etc that's causing that fault, they must have messed with the wiring", then driving to the installer to be told "we didn't touch that bit" etc.

 

[The Weekend]

Just bought a 19 plate Beech, 22 miles, fairly basic spec, MFSW, front assist, lights, VW mattress but no sensors or heater for £39k. warranty, not needing a MOT etc prob worth £1k. Trade in on 17 plate Beech with 27k miles on the clock, scuffs all round, £33k. So £5k to change, seemed a no brainer to me. Very happy, now watch someone burst my bubble!

 

[Stuart]

Just bought a 19 plate Beech, 22 miles, fairly basic spec, MFSW, front assist, lights, VW mattress but no sensors or heater for £39k. warranty, not needing a MOT etc prob worth £1k. Trade in on 17 plate Beech with 27k miles on the clock, scuffs all round, £33k. So £5k to change, seemed a no brainer to me. Very happy, now watch someone burst my bubble!

Is that from a VW dealer? It seems a decent trade-in value

 

[The Weekend]

VW Birmingham. Good, straight and simple to deal with.
They din't even want to look around my old one, but I insisted.

 

[Benny Saltstein]

Just to update this thread, looking at another tomorrow am, 7 seats, Discovery and app connect, parking sensors, cruise, removable tow hitch, 32l cooler thing, foldy mirrors, heat insulating glass.

Fingers crossed it checks out.

 

[NZCol]

Year ? Price ? Miles ?

 

[Benny Saltstein]

Year ? Price ? Miles ?

2019, £37k, 8k miles

 

[Scorf]

We are straying well off topic here but briefly lets assume that you are correct and you may well be, my main concerns with this declaration are:

1. Will there be sufficient raw materials available in the years to come to service the run away world wide demand for batteries required for all applications, including many millions of EVs.

2. If or rather when there are shortages of raw materials, prices will rise and things may get sticky both for the economics of EVs and their future viability. Oil can be produced from sources all over the globe but as I understand it, the raw materials required to produce the necessary EV batteries are not. Throw the uncertainties of both global and national politics along with commercial greed into the equation and the future of EVs has to be considered uncertain.

3. Apparently, producing these raw materials is a filthy business which has in itself created numerous significant environmental issues in and around those locations . These would have to be properly addressed. We can't move headlong towards the adoption of these so called ultra green vehicles whilst conveniently ignoring the environmental damage being caused elsewhere in the world.

4. Battery recycling or rather the lack of it is also a major current problem globally. Investing in a future comprising almost exclusively of EVs without effectively resolving the recycling issue is worrying.


Now I am not an expert and I don't pretend to know that much about these issues. Instead I'm just an ordinary chap with some serious reservations about this policy decision. I can understand the current case for stopping sales of petrol and diesel vehilces but not the hybrids as well? You say that development of EVs and the associated infrastructure required will improve all lot in fifteen years and I'm sure you are right. However, I would like to think that the development of ultra clean petrol and diesel hybrid vehicles will also continue at pace. I know why they have done it but I would be surprised if this decision doesn't prove to be a problem to honour. Having all your transport eggs in one EV basket may not always be a good idea.

Oh Boris..... where to begin (Boris, I come in peace, honestly...you are one of my favourite Beach posters!)

I think the main point here is that we're all in danger of taking a 2020 perspective on a 2035 issue, which TBF a perfectly natural thing to do.

But if we look at other recent similar examples you can see that often short term fears soon look worryingly out of date. Take the example of general renewable power generation, in the past derided as a folly (economically) & yet now competitively priced & makes nuclear produced power look eye wateringly expensive. The same with shale gas/oil in the US, OPEC thought they could price the producers out of the market by flooding the market & forcing the price down, what happened? Technology & process moved on to make the offering more competitive.

The point I'm trying to make is, who even knows if 2035 batteries will be made of the same raw materials as they are now? or will be produced by the same process? or indeed if batteries will even be part of the solution if Hydrogen fuel cells come up on the rails as a true cost effective alternative?

All governments can do is set targets/deadlines & let suppliers & manufacturers invest to sort out the issues which today look daunting & insurmountable.

What should also be remembered is that 2035 is only when the UK government have decided to put this line in the sand, others (such as Norway) will be far more aggressive, some more relaxed, and it is only on the sale of new vehicles, there is no cutoff for use yet suggested.

I notice that every time this subject is raised / debated there are howls of 'never' or 'impossible' or 'how ridiculous' and yet I think deep down most of us realise that there is an issue here (fossil fuel use & climate change) & a solution has to come from somewhere. If we are not at least seen to set some kind of timescale when a solution, to this small part of the overall puzzle, will be needed then we will inevitably drift along making little progress in changing over a century of habit.

Entirely the wrong thread for this, which I apologise for..but I'm glad I've got that off my chest,...... I'll just put my tin hat on

 

[WelshGas]

Oh Boris..... where to begin (Boris, I come in peace, honestly...you are one of my favourite Beach posters!)

I think the main point here is that we're all in danger of taking a 2020 perspective on a 2035 issue, which TBF a perfectly natural thing to do.

But if we look at other recent similar examples you can see that often short term fears soon look worryingly out of date. Take the example of general renewable power generation, in the past derided as a folly (economically) & yet now competitively priced & makes nuclear produced power look eye wateringly expensive. The same with shale gas/oil in the US, OPEC thought they could price the producers out of the market by flooding the market & forcing the price down, what happened? Technology & process moved on to make the offering more competitive.

The point I'm trying to make is, who even knows if 2035 batteries will be made of the same raw materials as they are now? or will be produced by the same process? or indeed if batteries will even be part of the solution if Hydrogen fuel cells come up on the rails as a true cost effective alternative?

All governments can do is set targets/deadlines & let suppliers & manufacturers invest to sort out the issues which today look daunting & insurmountable.

What should also be remembered is that 2035 is only when the UK government have decided to put this line in the sand, others (such as Norway) will be far more aggressive, some more relaxed, and it is only on the sale of new vehicles, there is no cutoff for use yet suggested.

I notice that every time this subject is raised / debated there are howls of 'never' or 'impossible' or 'how ridiculous' and yet I think deep down most of us realise that there is an issue here (fossil fuel use & climate change) & a solution has to come from somewhere. If we are not at least seen to set some kind of timescale when a solution, to this small part of the overall puzzle, will be needed then we will inevitably drift along making little progress in changing over a century of habit.

Entirely the wrong thread for this, which I apologise for..but I'm glad I've got that off my chest,...... I'll just put my tin hat on

Unfortunately the Engineering bigwigs on the Today programme would disagree with your premise regarding innovation and new solutions. They agreed that even the new technologies of today would probably take upto 30 years before they could be scaled up to make any meaningful change. Even Hydrogen will not be the lifesaver, as many think, as there is insufficient power generation available to allow it to make any meaningful contribution.

 

[clarinetbcn]

In fairness to the OP, maybe we should move this to another thread. Maybe name it “Let’s do nothing because it’s too hard, and see how that works out.”

 

[Borris]

Oh Boris..... where to begin (Boris, I come in peace, honestly...you are one of my favourite Beach posters!)

I think the main point here is that we're all in danger of taking a 2020 perspective on a 2035 issue, which TBF a perfectly natural thing to do.

But if we look at other recent similar examples you can see that often short term fears soon look worryingly out of date. Take the example of general renewable power generation, in the past derided as a folly (economically) & yet now competitively priced & makes nuclear produced power look eye wateringly expensive. The same with shale gas/oil in the US, OPEC thought they could price the producers out of the market by flooding the market & forcing the price down, what happened? Technology & process moved on to make the offering more competitive.

The point I'm trying to make is, who even knows if 2035 batteries will be made of the same raw materials as they are now? or will be produced by the same process? or indeed if batteries will even be part of the solution if Hydrogen fuel cells come up on the rails as a true cost effective alternative?

All governments can do is set targets/deadlines & let suppliers & manufacturers invest to sort out the issues which today look daunting & insurmountable.

What should also be remembered is that 2035 is only when the UK government have decided to put this line in the sand, others (such as Norway) will be far more aggressive, some more relaxed, and it is only on the sale of new vehicles, there is no cutoff for use yet suggested.

I notice that every time this subject is raised / debated there are howls of 'never' or 'impossible' or 'how ridiculous' and yet I think deep down most of us realise that there is an issue here (fossil fuel use & climate change) & a solution has to come from somewhere. If we are not at least seen to set some kind of timescale when a solution, to this small part of the overall puzzle, will be needed then we will inevitably drift along making little progress in changing over a century of habit.

Entirely the wrong thread for this, which I apologise for..but I'm glad I've got that off my chest,...... I'll just put my tin hat on

Hi Scorf,
All good points, well made and I don't disagree with anything that you have said. However, my original comment was simply that I don't believe that the Government has set a realistic or achievable target and that it may lead to egg on their faces. I sincerely hope that I am wrong.

I do realise that it is thier job set a tough target if only to spur on development. However, I believe that given the current perspective, meeting that target will be a very tall order.

BTW, I'm not saying "never' or 'impossible' or 'how ridiculous"', I'm merely saying that I have concerns over a headlong rush towards what looks very much like an almost exclusive EV policy for new vehicles from 2035. You may be right and technology may advance to such an extent that my four previously mentioned concerns are no longer relevant however until then they need addressing.

 

[Borris]

In fairness to the OP, maybe we should move this to another thread. Maybe name it “Let’s do nothing because it’s too hard, and see how that works out.”

Or better still "Lets do lots of somethings just in case our one idea hasn't been properly thought through".

 

[Benny Saltstein]

Well I went, I saw, I bought. Being delivered next week.



Got a reasonable PX value for the old family wagon and will probably sell this later in the year as it doesn't get driven enough.

 

[Amarillo]

almost exclusive EV policy

No petrol and no diesel is not an almost exclusive EV policy. LPG, fuel cells and battery are all possible for 2035 - and who knows what else?? I note that there is no proposal to ban the sale of new coal cars.

 

[larrylamb]

Well I went, I saw, I bought. Being delivered next week.

View attachment 55010

Looks great Benny, time to get some trips plannned.

 

[Amarillo]

Unless you buy a left hand drive Beach in Europe, there will be no more new right hand drive Beaches

I was in SMG Tonbridge today: my Beach was in for its first MOT and brake fluid change, plus two warranty items (diesel smell in cab when idling, cracked shock absorber).

I saw Martin. He said that Laine is looking into ordering RHD Beaches direct from Germany, bypassing VWUK. He didn't think that it would be an insurmountable problem.

 

[Benny Saltstein]

Looks great Benny, time to get some trips plannned.

Thank you, I'm really pleased. We'd already booked a trip to Sweden for August but I'd left the reg no off the ferry bookings because I was hopeful of new wheels!

 

[Borris]

No petrol and no diesel is not an almost exclusive EV policy. LPG, fuel cells and battery are all possible for 2035 - and who knows what else?? I note that there is no proposal to ban the sale of new coal cars.

Well, we shall just have to wait and see.

 

[OGII]

Well I went, I saw, I bought.

That falls firmly in the "Unlikely to be regretted" category. Good work.