4moition.....no more?

[ive_california]

I think that the problem with a Buzz California might be slightly deeper rooted. The 77kWh battery of the Buzz offers a range of around 250 miles. If you add the weight of a fit out (even if you're careful) you're going to probably knock 10% off the range. If you then factor in motorway speeds and cold weather you are probably going to end up with a winter range of around 180 miles before even considering the drain from fridge etc. Obviously, you will also lose the diesel heater, so I think you would end up with a fairly poor camper van experience and the platform won't allow much latitude in the fitting of a larger battery to compensate.

So, I suspect the most viable proposition will be to base the next California on the new Transit/Transporter platform.

Make that 120 miles in winter. Ev's are a disaster in the winter. But to each his own...


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[Corradobrit]

I think that the problem with a Buzz California might be slightly deeper rooted. The 77kWh battery of the Buzz offers a range of around 250 miles. If you add the weight of a fit out (even if you're careful) you're going to probably knock 10% off the range. If you then factor in motorway speeds and cold weather you are probably going to end up with a winter range of around 180 miles before even considering the drain from fridge etc. Obviously, you will also lose the diesel heater, so I think you would end up with a fairly poor camper van experience and the platform won't allow much latitude in the fitting of a larger battery to compensate.

So, I suspect the most viable proposition will be to base the next California on the new Transit/Transporter platform.

180 on motorway in winter is highly optimistic. A recent test in Norway revealed a range of only about 155 miles!!

 

[Corradobrit]

I’ve read the Cali Buzz with the extra length, will have a new Volkswagen 110kWa battery. Fingers crossed the Cali Buzz will look complete different to the current California. Let’s be honest, it’s getting a bit long in the tooth.
It’s time to move on and embrace the new technology that could be offered with this van.

The Buzz Cali could be a complete and utter game changer.
Fingers crossed…

110KW battery will add considerable weight to an already compromised car based chassis. I just don"t see it without a complete redesign being involved. Maybe in the future but not this decade.

 

[soulstyledevon]

110KW battery will add considerable weight to an already compromised car based chassis. I just don"t see it without a complete redesign being involved. Maybe in the future but not this decade.

I disagree.
Battery technology is changing so fast at the minute.
It’s currently the only conceivable alternative, hydrogen by all accounts won’t happen anytime soon if ever and every major manufacturer is investing massively in battery technology.

If VW produce a 110kWa power plant, you can add another 60ish miles even by todays standards.
Apparently 2027 is when the Cali and it’s bigger battery will appear…

 

[Corradobrit]

I disagree.
Battery technology is changing so fast at the minute.
It’s currently the only conceivable alternative, hydrogen by all accounts won’t happen anytime soon if ever and every major manufacturer is investing massively in battery technology.

If VW produce a 110kWa power plant, you can add another 60ish miles even by todays standards.
Apparently 2027 is when the Cali and it’s bigger battery will appear…

If the Ford/VW collab materializes then I don't see a Buzz Cali with everything we are familiar with in the T6.1 and 4 beds. Maybe the next iteration in the 2030's if sales slump and the public don't take to the new platform. A Cali Lite maybe, along the lines of the Caddy Cali

 

[Wesel]

All this announces a great change in what we know today. Maybe the end for camper vans like the California?

 

[WestSussexSpike]

I also saw the speculation that the Buzz may launch in the US in 2024 with a 110kWh battery as a LWB variant. Even if that were to be possible on the Buzz platform, the problem is that the current SWB Buzz has a GVW of 3,000kg. If you add a 50% battery size increase and even a basic level of fit out, you are going to be over the 3,500kg weight limit meaning that it can't be driven on a UK car licence.

I have no doubt that a Buzz Campervan will be offered in the UK (but maybe not by VW), but I fear that it will be compromised and will only appeal to a niche market.

I really don't want my next camper van to be Transit based, but I fear that's the way it's going!

 

[WestSussexSpike]

I disagree.
Battery technology is changing so fast at the minute.
It’s currently the only conceivable alternative, hydrogen by all accounts won’t happen anytime soon if ever and every major manufacturer is investing massively in battery technology.

If VW produce a 110kWa power plant, you can add another 60ish miles even by todays standards.
Apparently 2027 is when the Cali and it’s bigger battery will appear…

I think that the rather disappointing conclusion is that we are probably going to have to wait for at least 5-7 years until the next compelling California arrives!

 

[Van Diesel VW]

Hopefully just a parts issue rather than a demise, just glad I got mine when I did. However if its parts why are so many 4m’s been delivered recently.

 

[dspuk]

Hopefully just a parts issue rather than a demise, just glad I got mine when I did. However if its parts why are so many 4m’s been delivered recently.

Because the system is focused on parts ordering challenges for cars to be made and delivered in 6+ months from now. A standard supply chain management process takes into account all future variables including ordering patterns, profitability and parts availability. Those ones you saw being delivered had their supply locked a year ago (Ukraine not withstanding). That includes 4moiton (sic) parts and two tone paint but has included previously and may again side assist as parts hit issues due to China and Ukraine. I still find the question a little bizarre tbh. The answer is a lot simpler than The OP seems to want and has been explained on several other threads.

 

[Calimili]

If there will be no more T6/7/8 Californias but Ford based ones.. I could see the value of second hand "real" VW Calis remaining quite strong from 2024 onwards...
It shouldn't be underestimated the strenght of the VW-Bulli VW-California brand has. It's massive. Many buy it just because of that. Gigantic choice of VW everything paraphernalia. A Ford Cali will loose that. It would be like producing a VW Mustang...

 

[soulstyledevon]

If there will be no more T6/7/8 Californias but Ford based ones.. I could see the value of second hand "real" VW Calis remaining quite strong from 2024 onwards...
It shouldn't be underestimated the strenght of the VW-Bulli VW-California brand has. It's massive. Many buy it just because of that. Gigantic choice of VW everything paraphernalia. A Ford Cali will loose that. It would be like producing a VW Mustang...

I don’t think the Ford collaboration is a bad thing. The Transit has a long legacy and I run one for work. It’s actually very good, and in some areas better than the Volkswagen.
Two major van brands coming together, will hopefully create something worth buying.

 

[Calimili]

I don’t think the Ford collaboration is a bad thing. The Transit has a long legacy and I run one for work. It’s actually very good, and in some areas better than the Volkswagen.
Two major van brands coming together, will hopefully create something worth buying.

I did own a Transit. The oldest vans you can possibly see still driving on roads are Transits, because the last. They are awesome. The Transit based Nuggets is a very valid competitor to the VW Cali / ClubJoker.
Two major brands coming together will definitely create something worth buying, no doubt.

But what I was saying was, that they won't be able to produce a "California". You might have noticed that many think even the Caddy Cali and the Grand Cali are not real "Calis" even though they are VW.
It is a brand thing. Like AMF Harleys, like Mondeos based Jag. No real Harleys, no real Jags.

 

[ive_california]

I don’t think the Ford collaboration is a bad thing. The Transit has a long legacy and I run one for work. It’s actually very good, and in some areas better than the Volkswagen.
Two major van brands coming together, will hopefully create something worth buying.

The new Ford-Vw vehicles will probably be at least as good, if not better than the current vw vehicles. If you look rationally at them. But probably the long-term residual value of a 'true' vw California will be higher. Look eg at the residual value of a t3 syncro vs t4 syncro. The value of a well maintained T3 is considerably higher than a t4. Is the T3 the better vehicle? Hmmm, that is debatable...


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[dspuk]

The new Ford-Vw vehicles will probably be at least as good, if not better than the current vw vehicles. If you look rationally at them. But probably the long-term residual value of a 'true' vw California will be higher. Look eg at the residual value of a t3 syncro vs t4 syncro. The value of a well maintained T3 is considerably higher than a t4. Is the T3 the better vehicle? Hmmm, that is debatable...


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The way I have read the deal is it is a partnership, not purely a Ford thing. We did a few of these with Mitsubishi, Vauxhall and Mercedes at Nissan. As such while the production will be Ford led (but can also be cross-built), and the underlying chassis the same, where the cost savings are, many other parts will be specific to the manufacturer. As far as I can see this partnership is still VERY early days with only one van currently on pre-order and more meetings than you can imagine still on the go for what will be the common platform for a partnership led T6/Transit collaboration. The whole convo is a cross between speculation, wishful thinking and personal manifestations. I wish there was something more tangible out there to understand the reality but for the life of me I can’t find it.

My biggest wonder would be about the engine and drivetrain as these are far superior on the VW vehicles compared to the Ford current line-up.

I have zero fears about our 6.1 and if anything so glad we got now, at the “pinnacle” of its design.

 

[dspuk]

I also find this interesting - it’s a spy shot of the 2024 Transit repacement. An id Buzz size it is not, for all those endlessly rattling on that the Buzz is the next version of the Transporter and 6.1 camper.

It’s. Too. Small.

The VW and Ford will share “underpinnings” - so chassis, drivetrain, engine and basic floorplan shape, but the interiors and panels will be very different. This is very common and there are a lot more cars out these today that do this than many people realise - it’s just finally coming to the van world.

It seems both vans could be built in Turkey, at a factory owned by neither Ford nor VW. Personally it’s not outside the realms of possibility that the basic VW Twhatever will be build here and shipped over as a “body in white” to Hannover (or where relevant) to then convert to a Camper.

2024 Ford Transit Custom Spied With Production Body | Carscoops

The 2024 Ford Transit Custom will share its underpinnings with the next VW Transporter

www.carscoops.com

 

[Corradobrit]

The VW and Ford will share “underpinnings” - so chassis, drivetrain, engine and basic floorplan shape, but the interiors and panels will be very different. This is very common and there are a lot more cars out these today that do this than many people realise - it’s just finally coming to the van world.

Very true. This is exactly why the Buzz is so compromised from the perspective of a T6.1 replacement. Modular design based a single chassis element has been VW and many other manufacturers cost controlling approach for years. MQB for ICE and now MEB for EV. MEB for a heavy payload needed to build a Cali will require a redesign and that won"t happen anytime soon.

I assume the Grand Cali will also be phased out in 2-3 years. It will be interesting to see what VW come up with as its EV replacement. Will VW even be interested in developing that market sector? The current Cali is sort of in a no mans land. Too payload/size restricted for the ID4 MEB chassis and too small for a Crafter based solution.

 

[bgg1b]

Does anyone know if the shared Ford / VW platform will be galvanised? It’s always been one of the drawbacks with a Ford

 

[The Blue Merle]

I did own a Transit. The oldest vans you can possibly see still driving on roads are Transits, because the last. They are awesome. The Transit based Nuggets is a very valid competitor to the VW Cali / ClubJoker.
Two major brands coming together will definitely create something worth buying, no doubt.

But what I was saying was, that they won't be able to produce a "California". You might have noticed that many think even the Caddy Cali and the Grand Cali are not real "Calis" even though they are VW.
It is a brand thing. Like AMF Harleys, like Mondeos based Jag. No real Harleys, no real Jags.

The VW Cali was westfalia baby to start with so surely that’s the only true cali if you have that view.
I think there will always be a vw camper and in demand just won’t tick everyone’s box (just like now).

 

[vmaxkiddy]

The VW Amarok and Ford Ranger pick up collaboration seems ok, no reason the van situation won’t be the same.

New 2022 Volkswagen Amarok: Ford Ranger sibling previewed | Autocar

New mid-sized pick-up will be built alongside the Ranger at Ford's Silverton plant in South Africa

www.autocar.co.uk

 

[Californication69]

Still available on the Polish configurator yesterday.

Yeah but we all know the crazy Polish guys would kick off lol. Like my Irish cousins

 

[WelshGas]

Maybe true collaboration.
Ford California Beach.
VW California Ocean.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Does anyone know if the shared Ford / VW platform will be galvanised? It’s always been one of the drawbacks with a Ford

Pretty sure that Transit Customs are already galvanised & they come with a 12 year corrosion warranty. So would guess that any new model would be the same if not better.

 

[Digger]

I think that VW and Ford will be trying to impress and improve in this collaboration. The new Amarok is excellent so I am sure VW will make the Transporter just as good. My regret is the loss of identity and heritage. Shame that accountants and cost cutting and such drastic changes means many will lose their jobs.

 

[dspuk]

Does anyone know if the shared Ford / VW platform will be galvanised? It’s always been one of the drawbacks with a Ford

All panels for all makes have been galvanised on one side for decades now. We used to have to test them in the factory with a special pen to make sure we had them the right way up in the press.