5m vs 5.4m vs 6m whats the practical merits or otherwise.

[Legin]

So given a number of folk have owned PVC,s upto 6m and a cali at 5m what is the wisdom.
Not having done it Im on the face of it attracted to the 5.4m PVC as it looks like its still manageable for parking but is it ? The 6m just looks a handful to me but I have no experience.
Being stuck outside towns or on a site is out of the question for so no big whites.
Can those who switch back and to between cali and pvc share their experince of the whys and wherefores re access, parking and handling.
Not a daily drive and I already get the merits of a bog and basin so no need to repeat that bit.
.

 

[2into1]

Am I the only one who doesn't know what a PVC is?

 

[Azteccamper]

Am I the only one who doesn't know what a PVC is?

Panel van conversion???

 

[ThomasHJ]

Nope. But I assume it has something to do with van conversions
Edit: (I see now that @Azteccamper beat me to it)

 

[B J G]

6 mtr parking is problematic even trying to find a long enough space on a roadside, looking at almost a 2 car gap allowing for getting into the space.

6 mtr vans also tend to be higher roof versions of shorter versions again causing parking restrictions.

5mtr as in a Cali is comparable to a car, most of which are getting fatter/longer with each model update.
eg VW Polo is now bigger than the Mk1 Golf was, making that size comparable to everyday car use.

from previous experience of a 6mtr long vehicle you need to be prepared to walk further into Towns or some scenic areas and hunt out big carparks. can also be banned from using some streets on the Continent.

It's a personal choice between how much internal room and facilities (toilet) you require and free travel ability.
A case compromise.

To further complicate the issue I tend to believe that when in the 6mtr zone so called Great Whites become more practical.

 

[Legin]

Panel van conversion???

Yep thats the one. Van rather than a coach built.

 

[Legin]

6 mtr parking is problematic even trying to find a long enough space on a roadside, looking at almost a 2 car gap allowing for getting into the space.

6 mtr vans also tend to be higher roof versions of shorter versions again causing parking restrictions.

5mtr as in a Cali is comparable to a car, most of which are getting fatter/longer with each model update.
eg VW Polo is now bigger than the Mk1 Golf was, making that size comparable to everyday car use.

from previous experience of a 6mtr long vehicle you need to be prepared to walk further into Towns or some scenic areas and hunt out big carparks. can also be banned from using some streets on the Continent.

It's a personal choice between how much internal room and facilities (toilet) you require and free travel ability.
A case compromise.

To further complicate the issue I tend to believe that when in the 6mtr zone so called Great Whites become more practical.

Thats what I feared. So thats a 6m off my list for sure but what about a 5.4m does it give a disproportionate benefit when parking over a 6m. I know it still has the height issue.

 

[Lightning]

Thats what I feared. So thats a 6m off my list for sure but what about a 5.4m does it give a disproportionate benefit when parking over a 6m. I know it still has the height issue.

If you go on motor home forums, they would not see 6m as a problem at all, the extra length just follows you around, and they can go anywhere a bin lorry goes. Parking at the edge of car parks with the overhang over the grass usually works, maybe avoiding old town centres.
The extra width and height is more limiting for me as it makes me a bit more reticent about driving down narrow rustic lanes, into town centres but mainly height barriers which are becoming more common on the continent. Some of the best spots are behind height barriers.

 

[Phase one]

The wheelbase is important parameter in determining a vehicle manoeuvrability in tighter spaces such as car parks and towns. At 3m wheelbase -as on the Cali - you are talking car like ability and parking.

At 5.4m most PVCs are using a medium wheelbase van and this generally means a 3.45m wheelbase. Such vans will still generally fit into car park spaces but have a longer turning circle.

The longer 6m panel van conversions will usually come on a 4.04m wheelbase and will often exceed the length of a parking space and be more difficult to manoeuvre if angles are tight.

Looking at small motor homes,as opposed to PVCs, then these may have been built with a dedicated AlKo chassis - so for example a 5.4m vehicle may have been constructed to give you a nice short 3m wheelbase but will have a greater rear overhang than a PVC. Thus forward manoeuvring has the same feel as driving a Cali or golf estate (turning circle 11m diameter) but as on our Micros it will exhibit greater rear “outswing” on reversing.

Most people seem to adapt to the size and cornering differences pretty quickly. Some of this comes with familiarity and confidence. Delivery van drivers in their 6m vans seem to get anywhere, even if some vans bear the scars of previous poor judgement!

As with all vehicles it’s a matter of finding the right set of advantages and trade offs that suit YOU.

You may find that a bigger vehicle gives you important advantages such as more space and on board facilities (eg storage and toilet/shower) that outweigh the disadvantages. Others will weigh the exact same things very differently. For example, they may prioritise a height of less than 2m as crucial.

Since you are the one who will live with any decision, test driving a 5.4m and/or a 6m van (or even better hiring them for a camping trip) would be a good way to work out what suits you best.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Wildcamper]

Ours is a LWB T6 at 5.4m. Parking has not been an issue, either roadside or car park. Once you get over the physics of the length of the vehicle the rest is down to practise and confidence. For us the big question was width. The T6 is much the same width as a family car and this allows us to traverse most narrow country lanes, we did have a 5.8m big white but it was the extra width that caught us out not the length. Having said that I find the 5.4m of the T6 LWB an ideal compromise.

 

[B J G]

Thats what I feared. So thats a 6m off my list for sure but what about a 5.4m does it give a disproportionate benefit when parking over a 6m. I know it still has the height issue.

Owners of the LWB Transporters say that there is no significant problem with parking due to length.

 

[Legin]

Good info. So the general view is that T6 lwb circa 5,4m is usefully easier to manage so a mid sized PVC. The PVC,s seem to be about 100mm wider ?

 

[Eber123]

Good afternoon,

I am asking myself this question at least once a week...

The VW California is a wonderful vehicle for camping ... especially in good summer weather (well, my opinion). Of course it is possible to use it in bad weather or winter, but for me it feels a bit uncomfortable.

For instance our Europe trip 2019 (in the good old times) the California was a dream. But in those 3x weeks the weather was very good, so we were able to be a lot outside.
In June 2020 we went for a week to England. It was raining every day and most of the nights. Camping was still possible, but not the same as it is during the summer.

So I thought about a bigger vehicle for example the La Strada Regent S 4x4, but even if I had the money I won't get it in Ireland. An alternative would be the Autosleeper Warwick Duo. It is still a camper van but certainly bigger than the California, but not as big as a motorhome. Also the Warwick Duo would be cheaper than a California Ocean with a few extras... (I know I don't compare like with like, but I compare vehicles that let me enjoy traveling and camping).

But at that point of think process I remember where and how I use the California in the last 3x years. Firstly as a daily drive, which I don't believe the Autosleeper is suitable. Secondly I am a devil to get into small, little country roads, sometimes barely wide enough for the California.

At the end the California wins my comparison match inside my head every time, because it is the best compromise between daily use, day tours, longer camping trips and road trips. And I believe that is the real strength of the California, that is the reason why it is so famous.

Happy California,
Eberhard

 

[Meoncoast]

When I have looked at 6m van many seem to have the bed up all the time so as a daily use van it seems better to me to have a shorter van and a rock and roll type bed and not have all the parking issues.

 

[Lightning]

When I have looked at 6m van many seem to have the bed up all the time so as a daily use van it seems better to me to have a shorter van and a rock and roll type bed and not have all the parking issues.

The dinette + fixed bed layout that is so common seems over filled with furniture and uncomfortable during the day to me, but they are all set up to have 4 belted seats and two double beds. I prefer the Murvi Pimento XL type layout, which gives a more open van, only sleeps two though. Some other like IH have nicer layouts with a rear lounge too.

 

[Legin]

Good afternoon,

I am asking myself this question at least once a week...

The VW California is a wonderful vehicle for camping ... especially in good summer weather (well, my opinion). Of course it is possible to use it in bad weather or winter, but for me it feels a bit uncomfortable.

For instance our Europe trip 2019 (in the good old times) the California was a dream. But in those 3x weeks the weather was very good, so we were able to be a lot outside.
In June 2020 we went for a week to England. It was raining every day and most of the nights. Camping was still possible, but not the same as it is during the summer.

So I thought about a bigger vehicle for example the La Strada Regent S 4x4, but even if I had the money I won't get it in Ireland. An alternative would be the Autosleeper Warwick Duo. It is still a camper van but certainly bigger than the California, but not as big as a motorhome. Also the Warwick Duo would be cheaper than a California Ocean with a few extras... (I know I don't compare like with like, but I compare vehicles that let me enjoy traveling and camping).

But at that point of think process I remember where and how I use the California in the last 3x years. Firstly as a daily drive, which I don't believe the Autosleeper is suitable. Secondly I am a devil to get into small, little country roads, sometimes barely wide enough for the California.

At the end the California wins my comparison match inside my head every time, because it is the best compromise between daily use, day tours, longer camping trips and road trips. And I believe that is the real strength of the California, that is the reason why it is so famous.

Happy California,
Eberhard

Ah. Not just me then. Im coming back to sticking with the cali at the moment but.... End of the day if i decide to give up altogether then at least I get the most money back possible with a cali.

The 4 travel seat 5.4m pvc dont look especially comfortable in the rear row seats to me , very upright and close together. Then the fixed bed wastes the lounging opportunity a lot. The main attraction is a shower, solid roof, bigger water tank bla bla. Sort of sussed the bog thing in the Cali.
Grass is always greener

 

[MattC]

You asked specifically about access, parking and handling with the different size vehicles, and that was a major concern for me when choosing my van a couple of years ago. Having rarely driven anything bigger than a Golf, and knowing that we'd want to drive it down very narrow country lanes with irregular dry stone walls etc., I was really keen to stick to a SWB VW. But in the end our other requirements in a campervan pushed us towards a LWB T6, which comes in at 5.3m rather than 4.9m. We have a pop-top so still the same 2m height and width for getting under barriers.

In practice, after 2 years of use, the extra length has been the right choice and never caused us any issue. We've taken the van to lots of remote places with narrow, awkward access. In open driving the length feels irrelevant, and when manoeuvring we've quickly got used to it (front sensors and rear camera helped initially but these days I often ignore them and just use the mirrors). Sure there must have been the odd time when a shorter van would have been slightly easier to squeeze into a space, but really it's not been an issue. I guess I'm most aware of the length in marked car park spaces where we sometimes overhang the white line ever so slightly - I get round this whenever possible by overhanging a verge, or by parking in a quiet section of the car park. And so far (touch wood) I've not encountered any officious person wanting to make an issue of us "not being parked fully within a marked bay".

Now with 2 years experience under my belt, I've quite regularly reviewed my choice and asked myself if I was buying again is there any way I could squeeze everything I want/need into a SWB van? And so far, every time the answer comes out as no. The extra 40cm length gives me a really convenient inbuilt cassette toilet, extra storage space, and extra worktop space (which makes the kitchen really usable), and for me those benefits easily outweigh any very small impact on drivability.

 

[WelshGas]

You asked specifically about access, parking and handling with the different size vehicles, and that was a major concern for me when choosing my van a couple of years ago. Having rarely driven anything bigger than a Golf, and knowing that we'd want to drive it down very narrow country lanes with irregular dry stone walls etc., I was really keen to stick to a SWB VW. But in the end our other requirements in a campervan pushed us towards a LWB T6, which comes in at 5.3m rather than 4.9m. We have a pop-top so still the same 2m height and width for getting under barriers.

In practice, after 2 years of use, the extra length has been the right choice and never caused us any issue. We've taken the van to lots of remote places with narrow, awkward access. In open driving the length feels irrelevant, and when manoeuvring we've quickly got used to it (front sensors and rear camera helped initially but these days I often ignore them and just use the mirrors). Sure there must have been the odd time when a shorter van would have been slightly easier to squeeze into a space, but really it's not been an issue. I guess I'm most aware of the length in marked car park spaces where we sometimes overhang the white line ever so slightly - I get round this whenever possible by overhanging a verge, or by parking in a quiet section of the car park. And so far (touch wood) I've not encountered any officious person wanting to make an issue of us "not being parked fully within a marked bay".

Now with 2 years experience under my belt, I've quite regularly reviewed my choice and asked myself if I was buying again is there any way I could squeeze everything I want/need into a SWB van? And so far, every time the answer comes out as no. The extra 40cm length gives me a really convenient inbuilt cassette toilet, extra storage space, and extra worktop space (which makes the kitchen really usable), and for me those benefits easily outweigh any very small impact on drivability.

Which Pop Top do you have? When I was researching some years ago I couldn't find a pop top that would keep the original vehicle height of just less than 2m without significant suspension lowering which I didn't want as I wanted a 4Motion.
All the Pop Tops sat on top of the Transporter roof rather than replace it as in the California.

 

[Elmo3]

We looked at the Hymer Free 540 and 600 recently. If we were to buy one, we’d go for the 540. The 600 just seemed too big after a Cali. The 540 has the same bathroom pod as the 600 buy obviously a little less overall space inside, but still very generous after a Cali! The pop top roof was fantastic.

 

[MattC]

Which Pop Top do you have? When I was researching some years ago I couldn't find a pop top that would keep the original vehicle height of just less than 2m without significant suspension lowering which I didn't want as I wanted a 4Motion.
All the Pop Tops sat on top of the Transporter roof rather than replace it as in the California.

I've got a Jerba Sanna which uses Jerba's own elevating roof (it's not available from anybody else). I think they've used their own since about 2015 or 2016. They used to fit Reimo iirc, but decided that they could improve on aspects of the commercially available pop-tops. They have lots of info about it, and videos, on their website.

The van is a 2018 T6 LWB with the standard 16" steel wheels and no modifications. Jerba told me it would stay just under 2m. I've laid a plank across the fitted roof rails at the highest point and measured down to the ground and I made it 1.99m.

 

[Jontymo]

We have ordered a Westfalia Amundsen 540d, the main reasons being we did not see the benefit of the 6m over the 5.4m though it is only for my wife and me as the kids have flown the nest! the 5.4m is not that much longer than our Cali but inside feels like it is far bigger. It will fit on our drive ok and will be used as a daily when required.
As previous we did not see the overall benefit of having a 6metre van over the 5.4, all it meant was a slightly longer bathroom and dining/sitting area but again for 2 people there is plenty of room, especially after the Cali.

 

[The Blue Merle]

So given a number of folk have owned PVC,s upto 6m and a cali at 5m what is the wisdom.
Not having done it Im on the face of it attracted to the 5.4m PVC as it looks like its still manageable for parking but is it ? The 6m just looks a handful to me but I have no experience.
Being stuck outside towns or on a site is out of the question for so no big whites.
Can those who switch back and to between cali and pvc share their experince of the whys and wherefores re access, parking and handling.
Not a daily drive and I already get the merits of a bog and basin so no need to repeat that bit.
.

My club joker is just under 5.4 and I use it as daily drive. No problems it’s like driving a cali, only notice any difference if it’s windy on the motorway (due to height).
Layout is excellent loads of room, it would only sleep 3 (or 2adults and 2 young kids) and it still feels like camper. Main bed is in the roof and is over 2m long.
Worth a look if you can hunt one down!

 

[Legin]

Lots of helpful comments and it does seem a general view that 5.4 is just about ok but 6m a little more challenging. I was interested in the comment that width can be an issue more than length and the PVC, s seem to be about 100mm wider than a cali. As above I was looking at the Admunsen 540, knaus 540, hymer Ayres rock or possibly the Dream D43up but it comes with the pop top and very cut down lower bed so not sure on that one.
Admunsen looks good but being a westfalia they dont give it away much like the Club Joker.
Slight tangent but what are the Ducato PVC,s like to drive, I would get the new 9speed auto.

 

[The Blue Merle]

Lots of helpful comments and it does seem a general view that 5.4 is just about ok but 6m a little more challenging. I was interested in the comment that width can be an issue more than length and the PVC, s seem to be about 100mm wider than a cali. As above I was looking at the Admunsen 540, knaus 540, hymer Ayres rock or possibly the Dream D43up but it comes with the pop top and very cut down lower bed so not sure on that one.
Admunsen looks good but being a westfalia they dont give it away much like the Club Joker.
Slight tangent but what are the Ducato PVC,s like to drive, I would get the new 9speed auto.

Campersales are doing a westfalia vip thing at the moment, down in burgess hill or there’s a good YouTube clip of the westys they have on show.

 

[Jontymo]

Lots of helpful comments and it does seem a general view that 5.4 is just about ok but 6m a little more challenging. I was interested in the comment that width can be an issue more than length and the PVC, s seem to be about 100mm wider than a cali. As above I was looking at the Admunsen 540, knaus 540, hymer Ayres rock or possibly the Dream D43up but it comes with the pop top and very cut down lower bed so not sure on that one.
Admunsen looks good but being a westfalia they dont give it away much like the Club Joker.
Slight tangent but what are the Ducato PVC,s like to drive, I would get the new 9speed auto.

We ordered the Amundsen as it feels quality and a little different to the mass produced offering, if looking at the Hymer or Knaus equivalents the prices are not that much difference. We have ordered the 9speed auto as good reports v the old auto box. We ordered from Wandahome this weekend on the Westfalia weekend. For info delivery is quoted as September next year!!!!!