All change 2025.

[Amarillo]

Protects all Londoners now, but only screws 10% of vehicles, as 90% pass.

Sleight of hand by the Mayor there.

Screws 10% of vehicle movements.

The percentage of non compliant vehicles is notably higher than 10% (but are driven less frequently than compliant vehicles).

Hopefully, those 10% of vehicle movements will decrease as users switch to public transport, foot or cycle.

 

[Amarillo]

Next Euro6 diesel and Euro4 petrol will be paying.

I hope so. All motorists should pay to use London’s roads. It’s unfair that the burden of paying for London’s roads should fall disproportionately on fare paying passengers.

 

[66tim99]

Screws 10% of vehicle movements.

Ok so fewer vehicles need to be upgraded…
(Hoping a significant number of course don’t ‘upgrade’ but ditch their car)

 

[WelshGas]

I hope so. All motorists should pay to use London’s roads. It’s unfair that the burden of paying for London’s roads should fall disproportionately on fare paying passengers.

As a Londener stop using Amazon, emergency services, supermarkets and local shops then you won't need any roads and you won't need commuters, visitors and tourists to subsidise your roads .

 

[66tim99]

Ok so fewer vehicles need to be upgraded…
(Hoping a significant number of course don’t ‘upgrade’ but ditch their car)

@WelshGas I suppose the laughing emoji was for the nieve boy.
I went out with my old boss on Friday night - a crusty old Tory living in Hampstead who has just sold his old Golf and bought an electric bike because he ‘refuses to pay the ULEZ’ … so the nudge does work… that’s one less smoking engine on London’s streets.
Thankfully not everyone feels the need to buy an electric car - car clubs are a great alternative.
I’m noticing more and more empty street car parking spaces in residential London, and Councils thinking creatively how to use that space, including ‘parklets’ (this one in Stoke Newington), some for cafes to use, others for anyone.
ULEZ is a stick to nudge us on to smarter thinking around private transport and more humane, healthier places. What else could we use the space left by underused private cars?

 

[SamSara]

We all grew up with the BBC, and to trust it. The most liberating - it terms of ‘waking up’ - thing I have done is stop getting news and information from that single source, completely, going elsewhere for example UK Column; I also rate TCW (The Conservative Woman), 21st Century Wire, Steve Bannon War Room, Naomi Woolf’s Daily Clout. A recent find is the Doc Malik podcasts as well as the ever enlightening James Delingpole’s Delingpod.

Interesting, but I would suggest expanding your sources and check the credentials of reporting and evidence based articles

 

[wildslammer22]

As a Londener stop using Amazon, emergency services, supermarkets and local shops then you won't need any roads and you won't need commuters, visitors and tourists to subsidise your roads .

Well that must win the prize for the most ridiculous post on the subject yet! Imagine if London’s traffic management were left to the flat earthers. The City would by now be at a smoggy standstill, it’s residents, workers and visitors choking in endless congestion. Good luck to Amazon drivers trying to deliver a full payload of parcels in a day let alone emergency services trying to fight their way through the log jams.

It may have escaped your attention that the London economy relative to the rest of the UK continues to thrive despite the perceived horrors of ULEZ and LEZ. It has one of the most joined up and efficient public transport systems of any major city in the world and has remained liveable largely because of its transport policies not despite them.

You could make an argument that all this has contributed to the gentrification of the City which in turn has driven lower earners further and further out to the boundaries of GL but to suggest that somehow ULEZ is subsidising Londoners roads is just plain wrong. The funding and maintenance of roads comes from general taxation, if you said that these schemes were subsidising public transport then that is far more credible. Do you think that it’s wrong to subsidise public transport? If so then we wouldn’t have any and our road system would be even closer to collapse than it already is.

The explosion in car ownership on our crowded island has meant that fewer people walk/cycle to work, learn, shop or for leisure. The resulting congestion and pollution in our cities and towns is whether we like or not making car ownership an ever more expensive privilege. If we don’t want punitive schemes like LEZ & ULEZ to put a brake on congestion then what? Doing nothing just isn’t an alternative. I will also point out that every credible study on traffic management ever made always concludes that more roads equals more traffic.


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[WelshGas]

@WelshGas I suppose the laughing emoji was for the nieve boy.
I went out with my old boss on Friday night - a crusty old Tory living in Hampstead who has just sold his old Golf and bought an electric bike because he ‘refuses to pay the ULEZ’ … so the nudge does work… that’s one less smoking engine on London’s streets.
Thankfully not everyone feels the need to buy an electric car - car clubs are a great alternative.
I’m noticing more and more empty street car parking spaces in residential London, and Councils thinking creatively how to use that space, including ‘parklets’ (this one in Stoke Newington), some for cafes to use, others for anyone.
ULEZ is a stick to nudge us on to smarter thinking around private transport and more humane, healthier places. What else could we use the space left by underused private cars?
View attachment 113878
View attachment 113879

I am not concerned about those you live in Greater London. They had a Democratic vote and chose Khan so they get what they voted for and they can change it next May. Good for them.
What about those who DON’T live in Grater London but depend on employment or services within Greater London.
Were they given a vote, were they allowed to partake in the scrappage scheme, were they given enhanced transport infrastructure to put them on the same level as residents of Greater London who already have better public transport than anywhere in the country, a Mayoral vote and access to the scrappage scheme.
Typical of the Liberal Elite, I’m alright Jack.

 

[Amarillo]

@WelshGas I suppose the laughing emoji was for the nieve boy.
I went out with my old boss on Friday night - a crusty old Tory living in Hampstead who has just sold his old Golf and bought an electric bike because he ‘refuses to pay the ULEZ’ … so the nudge does work… that’s one less smoking engine on London’s streets.
Thankfully not everyone feels the need to buy an electric car - car clubs are a great alternative.
I’m noticing more and more empty street car parking spaces in residential London, and Councils thinking creatively how to use that space, including ‘parklets’ (this one in Stoke Newington), some for cafes to use, others for anyone.
ULEZ is a stick to nudge us on to smarter thinking around private transport and more humane, healthier places. What else could we use the space left by underused private cars?
View attachment 113878
View attachment 113879

Every Friday we try to subvert the Mayor’s cash raising intentions by running a “bike train” to school. Parents and pupils who join gain the experience, skills and confidence to leave their cars at home and ride to school.

Instead of winging about the cost of ULEZ, we actually do something to undermine its cash raising potential.

 

[wildslammer22]

I am not concerned about those you live in Greater London. They had a Democratic vote and chose Khan so they get what they voted for and they can change it next May. Good for them.
What about those who DON’T live in Grater London but depend on employment or services within Greater London.
Were they given a vote, were they allowed to partake in the scrappage scheme, were they given enhanced transport infrastructure to put them on the same level as residents of Greater London who already have better public transport than anywhere in the country, a Mayoral vote and access to the scrappage scheme.
Typical of the Liberal Elite, I’m alright Jack.

I have colleagues that commute to work into London from York and Doncaster. Should they be given a vote on ULEZ too?

Should smokers be taxed heavily when buying tobacco and face restrictions on where they can practice their habit or would you rather they be be free to pollute themselves and others but be barred from using the NHS when they get respiratory illnesses?

These might seem silly examples but appear to be the gist of your arguments if followed through to a logical conclusion?

I’ve no doubt that ULEZ and similar schemes have unintended consequences but it’s almost impossible to devise an alternative in which there are no losers. Other solutions to congestion in London that were funded by us all whether we live via general taxation have failed miserably yet I don’t read about that anywhere in the mainstream media. Did the North Circular reduce congestion, what about the M25, that did the trick didn’t it? Guess what, the only way to stop congestion is to de-incentivise car usage and/or provide a compelling alternative and if policy makers do that then why not target the most polluting vehicles at the same time?

The answer for you and increasingly some political opportunists seems to be do nothing and expect the residents, workers and visitors to the capital to suffer the long term consequences. That sounds a lot like ‘I’m all right Jack’ too.

BTW the GDP of London is c.50% bigger than Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland combined. Whether we like or not we all wherever we live have a vested interest in London continuing to be an economic global powerhouse. The transport strategy of the GLA whether under Livingstone, Johnson or Khan has been a significant factor in Londons success and will continue to be so.


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[Amarillo]

As a Londener stop using Amazon, emergency services, supermarkets and local shops then you won't need any roads and you won't need commuters, visitors and tourists to subsidise your roads .

I think you miss the point.

The aim is to reduce motor traffic, not eliminate it.

Most journeys in London under one mile can be walked in about 20 minutes, most journeys in London under five miles can be cycled in about 30 minutes. Most parts of London can be reached from most other parts of London in under two hours by public transport.

Amazon and supermarkets reduce lots of individual trips by delivering to several addresses in one longer journey, determined by computer to minimise time on the road. Emptier streets will benefit the emergency services and people who need to drive and those who like to pay to drive.

I see that as wins all round.

 

[wildslammer22]

Every Friday we try to subvert the Mayor’s cash raising intentions by running a “bike train” to school. Parents and pupils who join gain the experience, skills and confidence to leave their cars at home and ride to school.

Instead of winging about the cost of ULEZ, we actually do something to undermine its cash raising potential.

Every Friday we try to subvert the Mayor’s cash raising intentions by running a “bike train” to school. Parents and pupils who join gain the experience, skills and confidence to leave their cars at home and ride to school.

Instead of winging about the cost of ULEZ, we actually do something to undermine its cash raising potential.

Don’t be ridiculous. We need to reclaim all the bike & bus lanes in London to accommodate more cars! Then any of the kids on their bikes that manage to avoid being run over by a single occupant 3 ton cars will have their life expectancy curtailed by asthma or COPD thereby making room for more cars. It’s a ‘virtuous’ circle…


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[wildslammer22]

I think you miss the point.

The aim is to reduce motor traffic, not eliminate it.

Most journeys in London under one mile can be walked in about 20 minutes, most journeys in London under five miles can be cycled in about 30 minutes. Most parts of London can be reached from most other parts of London in under two hours by public transport.

Amazon and supermarkets reduce lots of individual trips by delivering to several addresses in one longer journey, determined by computer to minimise time on the road. Emptier streets will benefit the emergency services and people who need to drive and those who like to pay to drive.

I see that as wins all round.

Absolutely, the most equitable answer to congestion and pollution is to reduce the number of car journeys not convert them from ICE to EV journeys.


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[Kayleigh]

As I sit here in my garden in West London on a sunny Sunday afternoon watching the planes overhead that have just taken off from Heathrow, I wonder how much pollution they are generating over London…

 

[Amarillo]

I am not concerned about those you live in Greater London. They had a Democratic vote and chose Khan so they get what they voted for and they can change it next May. Good for them.
What about those who DON’T live in Grater London but depend on employment or services within Greater London.
Were they given a vote, were they allowed to partake in the scrappage scheme, were they given enhanced transport infrastructure to put them on the same level as residents of Greater London who already have better public transport than anywhere in the country, a Mayoral vote and access to the scrappage scheme.
Typical of the Liberal Elite, I’m alright Jack.

I think that most of the SE is served by excellent commuter links into central London.

Brighton to London Bridge, for example, takes 1h 1m or 1h 9m with four trains per hour.

Hastings to LB: 1h 35 m, 2tph

Ashford to St Pancras: 35m, 4tph

Portsmouth to Waterloo: 1h 40 to 2h 15; 5tph

Reading to Paddington: 30 to 50m; 16 tph.

… I could go on …

Plus a myriad of intermediate stations on either fast or stopping trains (or both).

So even if you live outside London, there are choices for travel into London. Even those living in or near Cardiff could cycle or get a taxi to Cardiff Station and be whisked into central London in under two hours on any one of two trains per hour. Book your ticket sufficiently well in advance and it will cost you under £30 each way, subverting the evil mayor’s dastardly plot to relieve you of your hard earned cash.

 

[WelshGas]

I have colleagues that commute to work into London from York and Doncaster. Should they be given a vote on ULEZ too?

Should smokers be taxed heavily when buying tobacco and face restrictions on where they can practice their habit or would you rather they be be free to pollute themselves and others but be barred from using the NHS when they get respiratory illnesses?

These might seem silly examples but appear to be the gist of your arguments if followed through to a logical conclusion?

I’ve no doubt that ULEZ and similar schemes have unintended consequences but it’s almost impossible to devise an alternative in which there are no losers. Other solutions to congestion in London that were funded by us all whether we live via general taxation have failed miserably yet I don’t read about that anywhere in the mainstream media. Did the North Circular reduce congestion, what about the M25, that did the trick didn’t it? Guess what, the only way to stop congestion is to de-incentivise car usage and/or provide a compelling alternative and if policy makers do that then why not target the most polluting vehicles at the same time?

The answer for you and increasingly some political opportunists seems to be do nothing and expect the residents, workers and visitors to the capital to suffer the long term consequences. That sounds a lot like ‘I’m all right Jack’ too.

BTW the GDP of London is c.50% bigger than Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland combined. Whether we like or not we all wherever we live have a vested interest in London continuing to be an economic global powerhouse. The transport strategy of the GLA whether under Livingstone, Johnson or Khan has been a significant factor in Londons success and will continue to be so.


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So your colleagues commute to London from York to see their GP? Well more fool them.
I don’t know if you are being intentionally obtuse or if you just don’t understand. Hopefully the former.
For people who live on the border of Greater London they are often dependent on services within Greater London they are the ones who are being unfairly treated not your “friend “ in York who can visit his local GP or Hospital without being charged a fee to do so.

 

[wildslammer22]

As I sit here in my garden in West London on a sunny Sunday afternoon watching the planes overhead that have just taken off from Heathrow, I wonder how much pollution they are generating over London…

Just be thankful that airlines banned the practice of ‘dumping’ toilet waste in the air!

Progress eh ;-)

That said on the earliest commercial flights accessible only to the wealthiest it was common just to throw any waste out of the window and the toilets were essentially just a hole in fuselage. Some would say that the rich sh*tting on the normal folk below is nothing new, I couldn’t possibly comment!


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[WelshGas]

I think that most of the SE is served by excellent commuter links into central London.

Brighton to London Bridge, for example, takes 1h 1m or 1h 9m with four trains per hour.

Hastings to LB: 1h 35 m, 2tph

Ashford to St Pancras: 35m, 4tph

Portsmouth to Waterloo: 1h 40 to 2h 15; 5tph

Reading to Paddington: 30 to 50m; 16 tph.

… I could go on …

Plus a myriad of intermediate stations on either fast or stopping trains (or both).

So even if you live outside London, there are choices for travel into London. Even those living in or near Cardiff could cycle or get a taxi to Cardiff Station and be whisked into central London in under two hours on any one of two trains per hour. Book your ticket sufficiently well in advance and it will cost you under £30 each way, subverting the evil mayor’s dastardly plot to relieve you of your hard earned cash.

If the trains are running.
And if you live just outside the M25 and your GP or local Hospital is within the M25
?

Oh, and it is cheaper, for us, to drive to London , pay the charges and Car Parking in Central London than travel by Public Transport, also more convenient and most important guaranteed .

 

[WelshGas]

As I sit here in my garden in West London on a sunny Sunday afternoon watching the planes overhead that have just taken off from Heathrow, I wonder how much pollution they are generating over London…

And how much they contribute to the % of GDP generated in London.

 

[Kayleigh]

And how much they contribute to the % of GDP generated in London.

Is that Gross Domestic Pollution??

 

[WelshGas]

I think you miss the point.

The aim is to reduce motor traffic, not eliminate it.

Most journeys in London under one mile can be walked in about 20 minutes, most journeys in London under five miles can be cycled in about 30 minutes. Most parts of London can be reached from most other parts of London in under two hours by public transport.

Amazon and supermarkets reduce lots of individual trips by delivering to several addresses in one longer journey, determined by computer to minimise time on the road. Emptier streets will benefit the emergency services and people who need to drive and those who like to pay to drive.

I see that as wins all round.

So you admit Londoners need the roads and so should be paying for them otherwise they wouldn’t be going anywhere and neither would anyone else.

 

[WelshGas]

Is that Gross Domestic Pollution??

Probably correct as it comes from London.

 

[wildslammer22]

So your colleagues commute to London from York to see their GP? Well more fool them.
I don’t know if you are being intentionally obtuse or if you just don’t understand. Hopefully the former.
For people who live on the border of Greater London they are often dependent on services within Greater London they are the ones who are being unfairly treated not your “friend “ in York who can visit his local GP or Hospital without being charged a fee to do so.

Aren’t you the one being obtuse? You mentioned those that work in London but live outside of GL, you also referenced Amazon and emergency services. Now you seem to have narrowed your issue down to access to ‘services’ to suit your argument.

How many people living outside of GL have no access to a GP or hospital without travelling into a ULEZ in a non compliant car? I’d wager it’s a vanishingly small number with which to base an argument on. Most local authorities run schemes to cater for those with issues accessing medical care in any case (taxis or increasingly DRT).

There are of course specialist hospitals in London such as the Royal Marsden which cater for patients from a wide geography. I have good friends whose son spent 6 months in the care of that hospital, in that time despite living 30 miles outside of London they only ever drove to visit him twice. It was simply easier & faster to get there on public transport.


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[Amarillo]

If the trains are running.
And if you live just outside the M25 and your GP or local Hospital is within the M25
?

If… If… If…

Most hospitals I know just inside the M25 have an excellent bus service between the local railway station and hospital.

Queen Mary’s Sidcup, for example, or the PRU (Princess Royal University Hospital) in Locksbottom.

R11 bus route

Choose a stop to view live arrivals and status information or add to favourites

tfl.gov.uk

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/bus-route-maps/princess-royal-university-hospital-a4-071217.pdf

Oh, and it is cheaper, for us, to drive to London , pay the charges and Car Parking in Central London than travel by Public Transport, also more convenient and most important guaranteed .

You have summed up the problem very nicely. Motoring into central London is too cheap.

 

[WelshGas]

Aren’t you the one being obtuse? You mentioned those that work in London but live outside of GL, you also referenced Amazon and emergency services. Now you seem to have narrowed your issue down to access to ‘services’ to suit your argument.

How many people living outside of GL have no access to a GP or hospital without travelling into a ULEZ in a non compliant car? I’d wager it’s a vanishingly small number with which to base an argument on. Most local authorities run schemes to cater for those with issues accessing medical care in any case (taxis or increasingly DRT).

There are of course specialist hospitals in London such as the Royal Marsden which cater for patients from a wide geography. I have good friends whose son spent 6 months in the care of that hospital, in that time despite living 30 miles outside of London they only ever drove to visit him twice. It was simply easier & faster to get there on public transport.


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I suggest you read the reply’s that are addressed to you rather than getting confused with posts addressed to others.
Amazon and emergency services was in relation to a statement that “ Londoners” shouldn’t be totally responsible for London roads yet they use them directly and indirectly via Public Transport, Amazon etc, shopping etc. So why should extortion via ULEZ fines be used to subsidise a facility that they need every day.

Nor am I referring to NHS centres of excellence.

I am only referring, in your multitudinous posts to those living on the boundary of the new expanded zone, who, without representation are being charged to work, visit friends and relatives, access services without any of the assistance given to those that live within the expanded zone such as reasonable and subsidised public transport or the scrappage scheme. If you don’t or can’t understand the difference then that is unfortunate and obviously nothing I say can educate you on the difference.

In a democracy decisions are made by the majority. In this case a large number of people living in the surrounding counties have not had their views considered at all by Khan.