Anyone using propane refillable?

[chockswahay]

I am thinking about the possibility of fitting a Gaslow 2.7 kg refillable in place of the 907. Has anyone else done this? How did you go about it? In our previous PVC’s we had Gaslow, in fact we still have two refillable’s in the garage but as they are 11kg and 6 kg no use to me right now!

As best as I can tell from the manual the only change I will need to make is the regulator.

Any thoughts and advice welcomed.

Now then, I agree the price to change is eye watering but I reckon I can sell the 6kg bottle and use the money towards a 2.7. Then I can refill the 11kg cylinder at my friendly depot in Edinburgh and use that one to refill the 2.7 at home. I use to fly hot air balloons and the prospect of refilling does not phase me at all (it’s just common sense and the right gear).

All seems too easy…….. tell what I’ve missed

 

[andyinluton]

I am thinking about the possibility of fitting a Gaslow 2.7 kg refillable in place of the 907. Has anyone else done this? How did you go about it? In our previous PVC’s we had Gaslow, in fact we still have two refillable’s in the garage but as they are 11kg and 6 kg no use to me right now!

As best as I can tell from the manual the only change I will need to make is the regulator.

Any thoughts and advice welcomed.

Now then, I agree the price to change is eye watering but I reckon I can sell the 6kg bottle and use the money towards a 2.7. Then I can refill the 11kg cylinder at my friendly depot in Edinburgh and use that one to refill the 2.7 at home. I use to fly hot air balloons and the prospect of refilling does not phase me at all (it’s just common sense and the right gear).

All seems too easy…….. tell what I’ve missed

If you are doing that & are comfortable refilling, why not just refill the 907 yourself?

 

[chockswahay]

If you are doing that & are comfortable refilling, why not just refill the 907 yourself?

A good question. One issue is that the 907’s don’t have an auto stop and no venting so would need careful weighing (happy to do) the other one is I would need to get butane Calor cylinders and even then the price is still naughty compared to auto gas from my local supplier

 

[andyinluton]

A good question. One issue is that the 907’s don’t have an auto stop and no venting so would need careful weighing (happy to do) the other one is I would need to get butane Calor cylinders and even then the price is still naughty compared to auto gas from my local supplier

Why would you need butane? - its your cylinder put in it what you want. Just refill it from your current 11kg.

 

[chockswahay]

Why would you need butane? - its your cylinder put in it what you want. Just refill it from your current 11kg.

You have a point….. it just feels wrong tho’. The Camping Gaz cylinders are designed for the lower pressure of butane although I’m reasonably confident that would not be an issue. I just feel uneasy about putting propane into a cylinder badged up ‘Butane’

 

[yossarian]

As best as I can tell from the manual the only change I will need to make is the regulator.

My understanding is that the 30 mB regulator supplied will happily run the cooker on butane or propane.

This appears to be the German EU motorhome standard.

All seems too easy…….. tell what I’ve missed

The tap on the top of the cylinder will vent above 14 bar. A propane one is available from Germany costs around 20 euro. Shipping is difficult. https://www.hausundwerkstatt24.de/P...ventil-fuer-Campingaz-Flaschen-GOK-CGV-Propan

Some 907s are marked for propane.

6kg of propane will last you for a lot of using the cooker.

More info from people who have actually done it is available on calliboard.de

Edit:. Some 907s are also labelled malange.

Edit: see the EN 1949 standard which covers LPG not just butane or propane.

 

[Wildcamper]

Suggest you check the legal position. As I understand it home refilling of LPG cylinders is illegal.

 

[chockswahay]

Suggest you check the legal position. As I understand it home refilling of LPG cylinders is illegal.

Why?

 

[yossarian]

Here's a picture of a dual marked bottle. I'd be shocked if the construction was different. I suspect it's just a matter of paperwork.

gas bottle in sweden

question for swedish/ norwegian cali owners: As the camping gaz 907 bottle is not available in sweden, what type of bottle do you use? does it needs changes to the gas system or just a different gas regulator? good to know if i run out of gas in sweden again (did that 10 years ago, had to buy a...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

 

[Wildcamper]

Why?

Filling portable LPG cylinders at Autogas refuelling stations - HSE and LAs Working together - HSE

The inspections form an important part of the major campaign to improve safety at bulk LPG installations.

www.hse.gov.uk

 

[Catbus]

I’m using a small 3.9kg Propane bottle with just a regulator swap.
The only issue I see was seeing if this size bottle fitted within the same cupboard space on a Cali

 

[yossarian]

Liquid Gas UK issue Consumer Guidance Sheet 39 – Regulators. Safe use. - BCGA

Regulators are necessary to reduce the pressure of LPG in the cylinder or cartridge to the much lower pressure that is used by the appliance.

bcga.co.uk

"however for some touring caravan and motorhome applications designed and built to standard EN 1949 the regulators are installed by the manufacturer and pre-set at 30 mbar for both butane and propane."

 

[yossarian]

Filling portable LPG cylinders at Autogas refuelling stations - HSE and LAs Working together - HSE

The inspections form an important part of the major campaign to improve safety at bulk LPG installations.

www.hse.gov.uk

I've seen many many of these threads just go around in circles once the legal aspect is raised. The link you posted refers to filling non-refillable cylinders at a service station which is slightly off topic (as are the legalities). May I respectfully suggest a seperate thread for the legalities and confine this one to the technicalities?

 

[Ting Tong]

You have a point….. it just feels wrong tho’. The Camping Gaz cylinders are designed for the lower pressure of butane although I’m reasonably confident that would not be an issue. I just feel uneasy about putting propane into a cylinder badged up ‘Butane’

You can put 2.5kg of Propane in a 907 and some are stamped to show that. I’ve refilled them with Propane and have had no issues with the Cali regulator: I don’t fill much over 2kg though.

 

[chockswahay]

Filling portable LPG cylinders at Autogas refuelling stations - HSE and LAs Working together - HSE

The inspections form an important part of the major campaign to improve safety at bulk LPG installations.

www.hse.gov.uk

That’s for commercial filling and public places….. nothing about doing it at home

 

[chockswahay]

You can put 2.5kg of Propane in a 907 and some are stamped to show that. I’ve refilled them with Propane and have had no issues with the Cali regulator: I don’t fill much over 2kg though. View attachment 97091View attachment 97092

Right, you’re winning me over with this!

 

[bvddobb]

You can put 2.5kg of Propane in a 907 and some are stamped to show that. I’ve refilled them with Propane and have had no issues with the Cali regulator: I don’t fill much over 2kg though.

Right, you’re winning me over with this!

The ones that are stamped as such do have a different, stronger construction. And then still may not be filled over the indicated limit, less than with butane. Propane will reach higher pressures at lower temperatures. One reason why it can be used in wintery conditions, and butane not.

We use a thus stamped Campingaz propane cylinder that we bought in the Alps, together with a specific propane cylinder the size of a 907 that we bought seperately, in our winter holidays and when we go to Scandinavia (where it is difficult to find butane). We don’t refill them ourselves, we have a gas station nearby that refills them. And we have had them refilled once in Norway. But there are many people who refill them theirselves, see e.g. the german Caliboard. Refilling with propane is usually a lot cheaper then changing Campingaz butane cylinders.

You do not need a different regulator, you do need a different valve, though, that can handle propane pressures. Especially the safery vent on it; a valve with a butane safety vent will vent too soon, since it was made to safeguard lower butane pressures.

We have written about propane for the Cali several times, see e.g. here. It is really no big deal.

 

[yossarian]

The ones that are stamped as such do have a different, stronger construction.

Any data to confirm this or is it your impression? Is the empty weight different?

 

[R_Sargeant_CH]

You can put 2.5kg of Propane in a 907 and some are stamped to show that. I’ve refilled them with Propane and have had no issues with the Cali regulator: I don’t fill much over 2kg though. View attachment 97091View attachment 97092

That picture reminds me of my early days of hot air ballooning, when we’d refill the aluminium Worthington lightweight propane cylinders used in the balloon basket from inverted 104Kg steel propane cylinders. The rust and muck from the old steel cylinders was a problem. After a while we found 104Kg cylinders that also had a liquid takeoff, so no need to invert any more.
For those who have no idea what I’m going on about, you need to transfer liquid propane, not vapour, otherwise the big pressure drop will cause everything to freeze.
I’m planning to try a Gaslow refillable cylinder in our California because paying silly money for a CampingGas swap goes against this balloonist’s principles!
@TingTong, where did thou get that liquid transfer hose please?

 

[R_Sargeant_CH]

That’s for commercial filling and public places….. nothing about doing it at home

"Currently HSE have no records of incidents and no knowledge of faults in the adapters and this issue should not be used to trigger additional inspection activity at stations dispensing LPG for automotive use".
This is sadly typical. HSE have no records of any incidents - but we'll make rules anyway!
This reminds me of the great Don Cameron who has a healthy distain for unnecessary regulations. He told a tale of a salesman selling "Anti-elephant dust". When challenged, the salesman said "Seen any elephants recently"?

 

[chockswahay]

"Currently HSE have no records of incidents and no knowledge of faults in the adapters and this issue should not be used to trigger additional inspection activity at stations dispensing LPG for automotive use".
This is sadly typical. HSE have no records of any incidents - but we'll make rules anyway!
This reminds me of the great Don Cameron who has a healthy distain for unnecessary regulations. He told a tale of a salesman selling "Anti-elephant dust". When challenged, the salesman said "Seen any elephants recently"?

Ah, That’ll be Don alright I learnt to fly in a Cameron balloon and owned 4 Cameron Balloons in total from a 31 to a 210…… happy days

 

[Ting Tong]

@TingTong, where did thou get that liquid transfer hose please?

I’ll pm you tomorrow.

 

[Perfectos]

Relevant to the discussions & the “new cylinder“ perspective

Campingaz Canister - how old is too old?

Here’s something I’d appreciate thoughts on - have recently swapped for a new 907 cylinder for incoming new Ocean… then when I brought it home, my wife said “oh, I think my dad gave us one of those”. Sure enough, in the shed, is an old 907 with gas in it (maybe 80% full). Now, it’s been there...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

 

[bvddobb]

Any data to confirm this or is it your impression? Is the empty weight different?

I have been told so by our gas guy, where we refill our bottles. He won’t refil ‘normal’ Campingaz bottles, only those marked for use with propane, and he claimed that was because of their construction. They come from special batches meant for use with propane in alpine countries, he claimed.
That’s also where we got it, quite by chance, when we went to change an empty bottle at an alpine Super U in the french Alps. It then happend to be a dual use bottle. We kept it ever since, have not changed it back, only once, again in the Alps, again for a dual use bottle (this time we knew to check!).

 

[HowieDog]

Just got Gaslow for our new Hymer van.One off cost c £300 but now it only costs £9 to fill a 6kg bottle with LPG and no faffing around swapping cylinders over.