Are we killing our leisure batteries?

[2into1]

I've just got into electric biking, and the advice on healthy maintenance of their batteries is not store them unnecessarily when fully charged. Unless they are going to be used imminently, its best to store them at 2/3rds full (ish), and charge to full just before use. (info largely from bosch).
This seems at odds with the Cali charging system which always keeps them as full as it can (I know you can squeeze more in with a hook up).
I guess there is not much we can do about it, but thought it was worth a discussion.

 

[Webbah_in_Switzerland]

The default batteries for the Leisure batteries are Lead-Acid and not LithiumIon like e-bikes. Every time you drive your van it will top up the starter and leisure batteries which is perfectly normal. Lithium Ion batteries should not be stored at 100% and if for a long time it's best to have them at 50% while in storage (like Winter).

That said, don't confuse the Lithium Ion batteries in your e-bikes with the "upgraded" LiPo4 (Lithium Phosphate) batteries many of us moved to for leisure batteries. These have 1000's of charge cycles, hold voltage levels much longer than lead-acid or AGM, and are perfectly happy holding a full charge.

 

[2into1]

The default batteries for the Leisure batteries are Lead-Acid and not LithiumIon like e-bikes. Every time you drive your van it will top up the starter and leisure batteries which is perfectly normal. Lithium Ion batteries should not be stored at 100% and if for a long time it's best to have them at 50% while in storage (like Winter).

That said, don't confuse the Lithium Ion batteries in your e-bikes with the "upgraded" LiPo4 (Lithium Phosphate) batteries many of us moved to for leisure batteries. These have 1000's of charge cycles, hold voltage levels much longer than lead-acid or AGM, and are perfectly happy holding a full charge.

Good point. I tend to associate Cali's with being high tech so had forgotten how old tech they are in this regard. Thanks.

 

[Webbah_in_Switzerland]

Very cloudy and my solar isn't keeping mine charged today (200AH LiPO4) so here is a photo of my hack. I have an EcoFlow Delta from my previous van and simply connect it to the AC input. Charges the van at ~750 watts. Takes 1 hour to charge the EcoFlow from any AC outlet.

 

[Corradobrit]

Good point. I tend to associate Cali's with being high tech so had forgotten how old tech they are in this regard. Thanks.

Not so much an aversion to tech but to cost. Li Ion and LiFePO4 batteries are many times more expensive than lead acid versions. Its all about the bottom line.

 

[2into1]

Not so much an aversion to tech but to cost. Li Ion and LiFePO4 batteries are many times more expensive than lead acid versions. Its all about the bottom line.

At £70k and 18 years after launch I would have thought some development would have occured....

 

[WelshGas]

At £70k and 18 years after launch I would have thought some development would have occured....

Why?
It does the job for the vast majority of people.

 

[Corradobrit]

At £70k and 18 years after launch I would have thought some development would have occured....

You got a split countertop didn't you and an upgrade for the tambor doors. Some people are never satisfied

 

[Corradobrit]

And LED lighting is a game-changer

 

[The Merle]

Very cloudy and my solar isn't keeping mine charged today (200AH LiPO4) so here is a photo of my hack. I have an EcoFlow Delta from my previous van and simply connect it to the AC input. Charges the van at ~750 watts. Takes 1 hour to charge the EcoFlow from any AC outlet. View attachment 95291
View attachment 95292View attachment 95293

So did your solar get stuck to roof or was it on a frame?
Got 144w from my Solbian 118w panel other day, very pleased

 

[jonr71]

Very cloudy and my solar isn't keeping mine charged today (200AH LiPO4) so here is a photo of my hack. I have an EcoFlow Delta from my previous van and simply connect it to the AC input. Charges the van at ~750 watts. Takes 1 hour to charge the EcoFlow from any AC outlet. View attachment 95291
View attachment 95292View attachment 95293

I have a River Max. My plan is to get Solar panels installed when the van arrives. The solar will charge the leisure and starter batteries and then top up the River Max as needed. The idea would be to use it for 2 purposes. One is to do what you are doing if the weather isn't great and the other is to charge my bike from. So I keep the heavy charging load to the River Max rather than the leisure batteries . I can also use the River Max for camping with a portable panel as it has a built in MPPT controller. These EcoFlow batteries are pretty awesome!

 

[Webbah_in_Switzerland]

So did your solar get stuck to roof or was it on a frame?
Got 144w from my Solbian 118w panel other day, very pleasedView attachment 95296

Hey man,

The panels on the roof are without a frame. I was concerned about heat but so far that hasn't been an issue and I've had them in 36C outside temps. I know I owe you some photos but I haven't received the telescoping ladder I ordered (should come by end of this week) and I've also been super busy with work and dialing in some of the little issues I had at delivery.

I had the installer put in 2 Victron MPPT's. One is for the permanent roof panels and the other is for my EcoFlow portable panel. I just received that and it's amazing! 220W rated but it is "bifacial" so has 150W panel on the back side that picks up ambient light to increase the watts. I've gotten as high as 280W on that one so far but only had a day to test before the rains came! I'll do a full post on my solar in my build thread hopefully this weekend if it's sunny.

 

[Webbah_in_Switzerland]

I have a River Max. My plan is to get Solar panels installed when the van arrives. The solar will charge the leisure and starter batteries and then top up the River Max as needed. The idea would be to use it for 2 purposes. One is to do what you are doing if the weather isn't great and the other is to charge my bike from. So I keep the heavy charging load to the River Max rather than the leisure batteries . I can also use the River Max for camping with a portable panel as it has a built in MPPT controller. These EcoFlow batteries are pretty awesome!

Yeah, EcoFlow products are top notch! I just bought the new version of the EcoFlow BiFacial 220W portable panel. Has 150W on the back side to increase output with ambient light. Awesome product! The River Max is cool, but in my previous van I needed more power as I prefer to use electric grills, a Nespresso coffee machine, etc. Those can go up to 1,800 watts at times. The River Max would fall over even with X-Boost. I bought that originally and then returned it for the Delta Pro.

 

[2into1]

Why?
It does the job for the vast majority of people.

Double the power, or halve the weight and free up some vital space perhaps? It is meant to be a premium product and battery technology has rather advanced in the 18 years they've been making thus Cali.
Anyway, that wasn't the point of the thread.

 

[Steve1]

At £70k and 18 years after launch I would have thought some development would have occured....

Sometimes it can also be about safety approvals. It can be quite difficult to get approvals for lithium batteries in some industries / settings. Each type and usage normally needs it. Car manufacturers don't make the batteries they just buy them. And after market sellers don't have to get the same approvals. The same batteries you buy after market might need extra safety features to be suitable for automotive use from a manufacturer.
Even smart battery chargers in motorhomes has only just started to ripple through, for along time only 13.8 float charging was allowed in the standard because some habitation equipment meeting the required standards (not being used when the engine is running) could not tolerate above 13.8V so a 14.4V mains charge might damage it.

 

[WelshGas]

Double the power, or halve the weight and free up some vital space perhaps? It is meant to be a premium product and battery technology has rather advanced in the 18 years they've been making thus Cali.
Anyway, that wasn't the point of the thread.

Lithium batteries can have problems charging and delivering power under certain temperatures unlike AGM batteries and may need heating and/or cooling systems to work effectively under all conditions.
As far as the e-bike lithium battery is concerned. Don’t store it for prolonged periods, use it.

 

[jonr71]

Yeah, EcoFlow products are top notch! I just bought the new version of the EcoFlow BiFacial 220W portable panel. Has 150W on the back side to increase output with ambient light. Awesome product! The River Max is cool, but in my previous van I needed more power as I prefer to use electric grills, a Nespresso coffee machine, etc. Those can go up to 1,800 watts at times. The River Max would fall over even with X-Boost. I bought that originally and then returned it for the Delta Pro.

I’ve not seen that panel. I’ll have a look. I don’t need that kind of wattage for my needs. Making sure my camera batteries are charged, bike charged, pc powered without compromising the fridge, lighting and heating. I think if I leave home with a full River Max and everything charged, a 100w solar on the van roof (plus a portable panel for some trips) I should be able to function, off grid, while using my rechargeable things for 3 or 4 days. I don’t (yet) see a need for more. But I’m sure I’ll find some gadget or tool which will drive an upgrade!

 

[soulstyledevon]

3/4 days should be more than enough. Eventually you need to shower, empty toilets and waste.

 

[The Merle]

Hey man,

The panels on the roof are without a frame. I was concerned about heat but so far that hasn't been an issue and I've had them in 36C outside temps. I know I owe you some photos but I haven't received the telescoping ladder I ordered (should come by end of this week) and I've also been super busy with work and dialing in some of the little issues I had at delivery.

I had the installer put in 2 Victron MPPT's. One is for the permanent roof panels and the other is for my EcoFlow portable panel. I just received that and it's amazing! 220W rated but it is "bifacial" so has 150W panel on the back side that picks up ambient light to increase the watts. I've gotten as high as 280W on that one so far but only had a day to test before the rains came! I'll do a full post on my solar in my build thread hopefully this weekend if it's sunny.

Don’t need any pics if they have been stuck down on roof. My old joker had them and I had to replace them after 18mths, hopefully yours will last longer

Glad you are busy enjoying van.