Avoiding roof corrosion?

[calikev]

The roof is aluminium the top part og the van it bolts to is aluminium so no point the corrosion is caused by the steel strip in the rubber seal rusting and reacting with the aluminium roof
Only way is to remove roof seal altogether.

 

[Digger]

Seems like VW are stupid as changing seal design would be cheaper than all this nonsense. Or maybe just arrogant and not willing to be wrong.

 

[gear box oil]

Good information on this subject on both the

Discussion regarding T6 ONLY roof corrosion thread and the

VW California T5 ONLY Roof Corrosion - General Discussion.


If you go through the conversations there are some good examples of the corrosion under the seal




With the T6 you should already have the clear tape under the seal.
Only time will tell if this prevents the problem but I would say it’s better than not having the tape in place.

 

[ArunAlec]

I'd redesign the sealing system. Have no rubber seal on the lifting roof. But have rubber gasket bonded to the fixed roof so that the ally roof formed a seal when closed. Something like a door and draft excluder.

 

[Perfectos]

I am not aware of any T6's with the tape suffering the corrosion?
Me neither.....

Hindsight is a wonderful thing !

 

[Jabberwocky]

Indeed! That will never change.

 

[Aca_chap]

Indeed! That will never change.

JW you may not remember but we had a conversation about this in about 2017. We hoped the problem was cured! I’ve not traded in that T6 for a 6.1 - I haven’t caught up on all the threads but are we saying that the tape didn’t work for the t6?
All the best

 

[Perfectos]

JW you may not remember but we had a conversation about this in about 2017. We hoped the problem was cured! I’ve not traded in that T6 for a 6.1 - I haven’t caught up on all the threads but are we saying that the tape didn’t work for the t6?
All the best

You are correct, the tape doesn’t work it merely reduces the incidence and increases the length of time that it takes to become apparent.

The real problem is the ferrous metal used in the the inadequate roof seal rubber casing, causing the Bi metallic reaction with the Aluminium roof, Yes it is the seal that VW knowingly choose to still fit, even today on the current T6.1

But I guess VW will say they know nothing about this issue,:

Despite VW having observed this issue on Early T5 California production run And the subsequent models.

Despite VW themselves taking various corrective action(s) (Not) in various trial measures in the field in a specific attempt to expressly prevent this issue.

Despite VW fitting a wholly inadequate piece of sticky tape to the edge of three sides of the roof (Not four) in a failed attempt to resolve this issue fully on Tens of thousands of Vans world wide and in the customers best interest.
Despite this being a Hot topic on forums throughout the California Community.

VW have failed massively at the expense of the loyal customer.

 

[Jabberwocky]

JW you may not remember but we had a conversation about this in about 2017. We hoped the problem was cured! I’ve not traded in that T6 for a 6.1 - I haven’t caught up on all the threads but are we saying that the tape didn’t work for the t6?
All the best

AC, I think you have your answer from Perfectos. If I am honest we decided to forget about the roof corrosion issue and enjoy our Cali until the end of the std three year warranty (we have 5 year extended Warranty) when we will inspect our roof (So next May) and then decide how we will react depending on what we find. If the dates of my earlier posts and May next year don't add up to three years its because we part ex'd in July '19. So that means we had our first Cali in Feb '17 and changed it in July '19 (To avoid the new 6.1 and the following resultant price rises!). So 29 months of ownership of Cali 1 and, as it happens, 29 months for Cali 2. We did not see any obvious corrosion on Cali 1 and have not seen any on Cali 2 so far. Both had the tape applied to the outer lip of the aluminium roof (excluding the front/leading edge). We did not/have not remove/d any of the seals so far. All that said I am aware of the ongoing issue that exists and that I may have at least part of my head in the sand but I refuse to let it spoil my enjoyment of our travelling time together. (So far 11 European countries including ten weeks on Norway and 31k miles).

 

[CALI FATE]

i have a 2016 T6 Beach - i had a hunch my solid yellow paint may not be affected as not metallic but i was wrong - i have been checking the roof / paint periodically around the seal and found a tiny bit of corrosion this summer - i bought 3 x 3m 25mm clear tape from Viking Ind Products for £30.00 plus delivery - its quite simple to apply and it has done the trick for the time being. I reckon its an annual job to reapply new tape and clean the seal and edge of the roof. Probably take a couple of hours and do it - dont rely on the VW repair i dont think it will last as they havnt resolved the basic problem. Why dont they produce a rubber seal with something other than metal clips

 

[Scoobz1]

Posted something like this in a different thread; thinking about it should have really been posted here so now deleted from the other thread)

Would some of the following treatments for galvanic corrosion not help prevent this or at least delay roof corrosion ?

Both Elise's and Landrovers have a lot of aluminium and steel butting up against each other and the problem, at least for the Elise, seems to be managed quite well with the correct treatment (e.g. Duralex for where steel suspension bolts are threaded through the Elise's aluminium chassis and get hit with a lot of water, which has been working effectively for 20 years plus).

https://www.eliseparts.com/shop/corrosion-inhibitors-lubricant/duralac/
https://www.eliseparts.com/shop/corrosion-inhibitors-lubricant/acf-50-anti-corrosion-spray/
hhttps://www.eliseparts.com/shop/corrosion-inhibitors-lubricant/corrosion-block-spray/

These are generally used underneath and in hidden areas but as the second and third are clear / transparent so might be useful on the top of the roof and are designed at least in part to halt galvanic corrosion

I know from published tests that Bilt Hamber make far superior rust prevention products to a lot of other manufacturers so perhaps one of their many products may help to do the job
https://bilthamber.com/product-category/anti-corrosion/

This one probably sounds the most promising as it is for painted surfaces
https://bilthamber.com/product/dynax-uc/

Some of the above products are also used in the aircraft industry where there is a lot of very valuable aluminium to protect.

Could these products be potentially of some use; could they be used with certain limitations or subject to specific considerations or are they simply of no use - thoughts please ?


Scoobz

 

[Perfectos]

For reference and to assist others :

Replacement of roof Seal : 2018 van

the dates below are when the work was carried out by the Dealer, not necessarily when the failure was reported.

# 1 (factory fitted seal)
noted as failed Aug19 - rust evident within the seal recess on (first clean / inspection of roof edge & seal) = failure on the rear corner replaced sept 19 - i.e seal #2 fitted:
View attachment 86965



#2 dealer fitted: noted as failed Aug 21 rust evident within the seal recess recess on front edge where roof profile blends from lower to upper level. Seal # fitted October 21
View attachment 86966

#3 Dealer fitted: Noted as failed Nov 21 - seal rust evident leaching from a small hole in the manufactured joint, front O/s corner. Reported several weeks after fitting of previous failed seal In Oct 21
View attachment 86968


View attachment 86969


#4 due to be fitted imminently
incidentally the photo above is of the font of the roof with the side tape (factory fitted) in the lower left of the photo. Dealers are instructed to clean the roof edge fully before fit replacement seals !

All failures have been at different points on the seal, the last I belive is purely a manufacturing fault that was not picked up during fitting, but the amount of rust observed leaching is more considerable than the previous two failures.

importantly two have failed on the front of the roof where VW have omitted to fit the remedial “ tape” in an attempt to prevent this issue !

Clearly there is still a major issue with this part and VW have failed to resolve the known issue since production of the T5, it is now being reported on T6.1 models.

 

[Scoobz1]

So far the only hint I have seen of an effective solution is this

FWIW, I used Dow Corning DC4 on my roof seal (dielectric silicone grease), and in nearly 4 years had no corrosion issues despite poorly applied tape and inevitable moisture ingress. It was easy enough to wipe the grease off the roof edge when I wanted to check for corrosion.

https://www.bradechem.com/silicones/lubricants/dow-corning-dc4/

"Description​

Dow Corning® 4 Electrical Insulating Compound can be applied by hand, specially designed automated equipment, brushing or wiping. Certain designs of grease guns may seize up with silicone compounds; test prior to use.
A thinner consistency can be achieved by dispersing in solvents such as
xylene, mineral spirits and methyl ethyl ketone. Dow Corning 4Compound can then be applied by brushing, dipping or spraying.
Dow Corning 4 Compound should not be applied to any surface which will be painted or finished.

A moisture proof seal for aircraft, automotive and marine ignition systems and spark plug connections, disconnection junctions in electrical wiring systems also in electrical assemblies and terminals. • Used as a seal and lubricant for cable connectors, battery terminals, rubber door seals, switches and rubber and plastic O-rings and as a assembly lubricant for various metal-on-plastic and metal-on-rubber combinations."

I think this product and some of the above listed in my earlier post may be useful - but just wondering what one would be the best to go with. It is clear we can't rely on VW !
This one looks particularly promising http://www.acf-50.co.uk/motorcycle/newacro/ACF50 Motorcycles_Hints & Tips.pdf

 

[stephen watson]

My van is just out of 5 year extended warranty and has paint repairs and tape applied by VW - neither of which have been satisfactory. I've now coated the seal with silicone grease as have some others. As the corrosion is galvanic and the steel in the rubber seems to be the culprit I have often wondered if there is a non VW seal, which might be better quality, which would fit? The sides of the roof are a quite straightforward profile. The front seems a little different. Has anyone investigated this route for out of warranty vehicles? ( I'm presuming you would need to cut it to length and create corners etc)

 

[66tim99]

For reference and to assist others :

Replacement of roof Seal : 2018 van

the dates below are when the work was carried out by the Dealer, not necessarily when the failure was reported.

# 1 (factory fitted seal)
noted as failed Aug19 - rust evident within the seal recess on (first clean / inspection of roof edge & seal) = failure on the rear corner replaced sept 19 - i.e seal #2 fitted:
View attachment 86965

View attachment 86970

#2 dealer fitted: noted as failed Aug 21 rust evident within the seal recess recess on front edge where roof profile blends from lower to upper level. Seal # fitted October 21
View attachment 86966
View attachment 86971
#3 Dealer fitted: Noted as failed Nov 21 - seal rust evident leaching from a small hole in the manufactured joint, front O/s corner. Reported several weeks after fitting of previous failed seal In Oct 21
View attachment 86968
View attachment 86972

View attachment 86969
View attachment 86973

#4 due to be fitted imminently
incidentally the photo above is of the font of the roof with the side tape (factory fitted) in the lower left of the photo. Dealers are instructed to clean the roof edge fully before fit replacement seals !

All failures have been at different points on the seal, the last I belive is purely a manufacturing fault that was not picked up during fitting, but the amount of rust observed leaching is more considerable than the previous two failures.

importantly two have failed on the front of the roof where VW have omitted to fit the remedial “ tape” in an attempt to prevent this issue !

Clearly there is still a major issue with this part and VW have failed to resolve the known issue since production of the T5, it is now being reported on T6.1 models.

I wonder if @Tomdbreeze could update us on the latest VW position?

 

[Perfectos]

I wonder if @Tomdbreeze could update us on the latest VW position?

Not sure what you mean Tim ?
VW have chosen to ignore this issue (seal failure) and simply continue to fit the faulty / inappropriate part + add a sticking plaster along three sides of the roof to slow the issue.+ issue a work shop action putting the onus is on dealers to check when your vehicle is in for routine works (Yeah right )

even if dealers do find a faulty seal, the part they are then replacing it with is faulty by Design

I know Tom is good but I don’t think he’ll have a direct line to Hanover.

VW do not accept there is an issue with the seal or the roof !

 

[Scoobz1]

What about picking the issue up with media using a dossier, particularly of all the very recent and repetitive failures. It is one thing to have a fault but a very different one to continue having it across newer models to such a degree that the fault is even more common than before. Honest John perhaps https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/advice/car-advice-with-honest-john/

 

[Ozzy Pete]

What about picking the issue up with media using a dossier, particularly of all the very recent and repetitive failures. It is one thing to have a fault but a very different one to continue having it across newer models to such a degree that the fault is even more common than before. Honest John perhaps https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/advice/car-advice-with-honest-john/

The media are never interested in something that’s not a danger to the customer. Having you paint bubble a bit is not something any of the mags would be interested in either.
There are so many problems with vehicles nowadays if they took interest there would be no time for anything else. Also don’t forget a lot of newspapers and mags actually rely on manufacturers for advertising and they are not going to put that at risk. This has been a problem now going back many many years and until VW take it seriously and change the rubber seal the problem will always be there.

 

[ArunAlec]

The media are never interested in something that’s not a danger to the customer. Having you paint bubble a bit is not something any of the mags would be interested in either.
There are so many problems with vehicles nowadays if they took interest there would be no time for anything else. Also don’t forget a lot of newspapers and mags actually rely on manufacturers for advertising and they are not going to put that at risk. This has been a problem now going back many many years and until VW take it seriously and change the rubber seal the problem will always be there.

I don’t even think that the Motor home / camping magazines would be interested. Based on their product reviews of motoerhomes etc they are never negative and seem afraid to be critical.

 

[Scoobz1]

Some journalists are more responsive than others hence the suggestion
https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/roof-corrosion-nightmare.22397/
its not so much the problem but the continuing nature of it and how VW treat people that is the story

ps just looked at the recent posts and there are 6 separate threads on roof corrosion alone on the first page of threads (plus it is featured in the "what have you bought for your California today")

 

[yossarian]

Interestingly corrosion of the steel part of the seal suggests that the steel is electrically isolated from the aluminium. If they were bonded one would expect the roof to behave as a sacrificial anode and little to no corrosion on the seal.

Reducing corrosion on the seal probably requires isolation from atmospheric oxygen.

Has anyone considered impressed current or a third metal used as a sacrificial anode?

 

[Ozzy Pete]

Some journalists are more responsive than others hence the suggestion
https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/roof-corrosion-nightmare.22397/
its not so much the problem but the continuing nature of it and how VW treat people that is the story

ps just looked at the recent posts and there are 6 separate threads on roof corrosion alone on the first page of threads (plus it is featured in the "what have you bought for your California today")

It’s not just VW. All the big car manufacturers are just the same. None listen to their customers which they should because if they did they could save millions of pounds. The thing is they really don’t like to think that a pleb could sort out their problems when they pay R&D a fortune to do the job...

 

[Perfectos]

Some journalists are more responsive than others hence the suggestion
https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/roof-corrosion-nightmare.22397/
its not so much the problem but the continuing nature of it and how VW treat people that is the story

ps just looked at the recent posts and there are 6 separate threads on roof corrosion alone on the first page of threads (plus it is featured in the "what have you bought for your California today")

a lot more than 6 threads regarding this issue, the 6 are only the ones currently popping up, there are literally tens of thousands of individual posts and numerous threads about this issue just on this site, let alone the German forum, face book etc etc.

have a browse through this section and you will see

Elevating Roof

vwcaliforniaclub.com

 

[SusiBus]

We took the issue of corrosion on the front box section on our California, which at that time was just being rubbed down and resprayed in the UK, to VW Customer Services, saying it was not a satisfactory fix as the corrosion was originating from within the box section. Their response was that was the recognised official VW procedure. So we escalated it to MD level, using the Forum as a base, and finally got the the approved repair changed to the complete front box section replacement.
We did bring up the issue of the seal, but as we all know, this has not been remedied and it's time that it was, both for owners and VW's sake.
We don't currently own a California, and hence do not have have roof seal problems. Some members have got all the information already collated very well. How about someone else taking it up on behalf of owners using the forum as a platform? We did, and as well as a satisfactory outcome, we got lunch at Milton Keynes and a book on the history of VW Vans! We need this issue putting to bed!

 

[Scoobz1]

a lot more than 6 threads regarding this issue, the 6 are only the ones currently popping up, there are literally tens of thousands of individual posts and numerous threads about this issue just on this site, let alone the German forum, face book etc etc.

have a browse through this section and you will see

Elevating Roof

vwcaliforniaclub.com

Agree see above ."there are 6 separate threads on roof corrosion alone on the first page of threads "

Out of interest do VW get away with doing so little in Germany and have the Germans came up with any good preventive solutions ?