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Avoiding roof corrosion?

Jay20cali

Jay20cali

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And they never managed to stop that after some 70 odd years. Instead they just stopped production.:thumb
Yep seems that vehicle builders don’t do there homework....
Or learn from others mistakes ??????
As we just said landrover has had this problem for many many MANY years.the rear tub supports disintegrate after as little as 3 years.and I mean totally disintegrate around the connection points and around the cappings corrosion is a definite problem .the problem is totally ongoing with vw now hmmmmmm !!!!!
 
sbmcd

sbmcd

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Why do you say ensure they don't bond it if that's what vw are doing? Typo?
The bonding prevents any future inspection, VW do not bond on the T6, bonding may indeed be effective in preventing the ponding water in the seal and prevent the corrosion cell being formed but the inability to inspect is not ideal. I had pushed for VW to include the tape in the repair procedure but was not successful.
 
I

itguy

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Makes sense I’m a painter and what you say is correct.
mine a t6 has a strip of clear plastic tape between the seal and roof to prevent the problem with dissimilar metals contacting.... BUT how long it will last is anyone’s guess landrover Defenders had the same problem around the cappings

I had the same 'different type of metals' issue on my old Lotus Elise. So many parts on that are aluminium to steel. I found out they used this stuff at the factory, but then when ever it wasn't used after (ie third party garages / home mechanics) the bolts and chassis (or more commonly brake callipers / hubs / bolts) used to fuse togethers solid!! https://www.marinesuppliesdirect.co...yVM9avQ3PJ4oGsawjchepAwMNLj2yG9hoCYnEQAvD_BwE
 
Ocean Spirit

Ocean Spirit

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The bonding prevents any future inspection, VW do not bond on the T6, bonding .
I think I finally understand.
At build vw don't bond but in the warranty repair bonding is part of the process?
 
M

Millsy

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We've just collected our spanking new Ocean and its everything we expected. Has anyone ever suggested just raising the roof a bit (an inch or so?) so that the aluminium of the roof and steel of the body aren't 'together' - we're lucky to have the van parked under a carport and don't use it as a daily driver. Its obviously not practical for everyone, but if the van is parked up for a lot of the time, it may help atleast slow down the corrosion? Any thoughts?
 
calikev

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The roof is aluminium the top part og the van it bolts to is aluminium so no point the corrosion is caused by the steel strip in the rubber seal rusting and reacting with the aluminium roof
Only way is to remove roof seal altogether.
 
Digger

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Seems like VW are stupid as changing seal design would be cheaper than all this nonsense. Or maybe just arrogant and not willing to be wrong.
 
gear box oil

gear box oil

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Good information on this subject on both the

Discussion regarding T6 ONLY roof corrosion thread and the

VW California T5 ONLY Roof Corrosion - General Discussion.


If you go through the conversations there are some good examples of the corrosion under the seal

WP_20170219_14_21_30_Pro[1].jpg WP_20170219_14_24_34_Pro[1].jpg


With the T6 you should already have the clear tape under the seal.
Only time will tell if this prevents the problem but I would say it’s better than not having the tape in place.
 
ArunAlec

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I'd redesign the sealing system. Have no rubber seal on the lifting roof. But have rubber gasket bonded to the fixed roof so that the ally roof formed a seal when closed. Something like a door and draft excluder.
 
Jabberwocky

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Indeed! That will never change.
 
Aca_chap

Aca_chap

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Indeed! That will never change.
JW you may not remember but we had a conversation about this in about 2017. We hoped the problem was cured! I’ve not traded in that T6 for a 6.1 - I haven’t caught up on all the threads but are we saying that the tape didn’t work for the t6?
All the best
 
Perfectos

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JW you may not remember but we had a conversation about this in about 2017. We hoped the problem was cured! I’ve not traded in that T6 for a 6.1 - I haven’t caught up on all the threads but are we saying that the tape didn’t work for the t6?
All the best
You are correct, the tape doesn’t work it merely reduces the incidence and increases the length of time that it takes to become apparent.

The real problem is the ferrous metal used in the the inadequate roof seal rubber casing, causing the Bi metallic reaction with the Aluminium roof, Yes it is the seal that VW knowingly choose to still fit, even today on the current T6.1

But I guess VW will say they know nothing about this issue,:

Despite VW having observed this issue on Early T5 California production run And the subsequent models.

Despite VW themselves taking various corrective action(s) (Not) in various trial measures in the field in a specific attempt to expressly prevent this issue.

Despite VW fitting a wholly inadequate piece of sticky tape to the edge of three sides of the roof (Not four) in a failed attempt to resolve this issue fully on Tens of thousands of Vans world wide and in the customers best interest.
Despite this being a Hot topic on forums throughout the California Community.

VW have failed massively at the expense of the loyal customer.
 
Jabberwocky

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JW you may not remember but we had a conversation about this in about 2017. We hoped the problem was cured! I’ve not traded in that T6 for a 6.1 - I haven’t caught up on all the threads but are we saying that the tape didn’t work for the t6?
All the best
AC, I think you have your answer from Perfectos. If I am honest we decided to forget about the roof corrosion issue and enjoy our Cali until the end of the std three year warranty (we have 5 year extended Warranty) when we will inspect our roof (So next May) and then decide how we will react depending on what we find. If the dates of my earlier posts and May next year don't add up to three years its because we part ex'd in July '19. So that means we had our first Cali in Feb '17 and changed it in July '19 (To avoid the new 6.1 and the following resultant price rises!). So 29 months of ownership of Cali 1 and, as it happens, 29 months for Cali 2. We did not see any obvious corrosion on Cali 1 and have not seen any on Cali 2 so far. Both had the tape applied to the outer lip of the aluminium roof (excluding the front/leading edge). We did not/have not remove/d any of the seals so far. All that said I am aware of the ongoing issue that exists and that I may have at least part of my head in the sand but I refuse to let it spoil my enjoyment of our travelling time together. (So far 11 European countries including ten weeks on Norway and 31k miles).
 
CALI FATE

CALI FATE

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i have a 2016 T6 Beach - i had a hunch my solid yellow paint may not be affected as not metallic but i was wrong - i have been checking the roof / paint periodically around the seal and found a tiny bit of corrosion this summer - i bought 3 x 3m 25mm clear tape from Viking Ind Products for £30.00 plus delivery - its quite simple to apply and it has done the trick for the time being. I reckon its an annual job to reapply new tape and clean the seal and edge of the roof. Probably take a couple of hours and do it - dont rely on the VW repair i dont think it will last as they havnt resolved the basic problem. Why dont they produce a rubber seal with something other than metal clips
 
S

Scoobz1

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Posted something like this in a different thread; thinking about it should have really been posted here so now deleted from the other thread)

Would some of the following treatments for galvanic corrosion not help prevent this or at least delay roof corrosion ?

Both Elise's and Landrovers have a lot of aluminium and steel butting up against each other and the problem, at least for the Elise, seems to be managed quite well with the correct treatment (e.g. Duralex for where steel suspension bolts are threaded through the Elise's aluminium chassis and get hit with a lot of water, which has been working effectively for 20 years plus).

https://www.eliseparts.com/shop/corrosion-inhibitors-lubricant/duralac/
https://www.eliseparts.com/shop/corrosion-inhibitors-lubricant/acf-50-anti-corrosion-spray/
hhttps://www.eliseparts.com/shop/corrosion-inhibitors-lubricant/corrosion-block-spray/

These are generally used underneath and in hidden areas but as the second and third are clear / transparent so might be useful on the top of the roof and are designed at least in part to halt galvanic corrosion

I know from published tests that Bilt Hamber make far superior rust prevention products to a lot of other manufacturers so perhaps one of their many products may help to do the job
https://bilthamber.com/product-category/anti-corrosion/

This one probably sounds the most promising as it is for painted surfaces
https://bilthamber.com/product/dynax-uc/

Some of the above products are also used in the aircraft industry where there is a lot of very valuable aluminium to protect.

Could these products be potentially of some use; could they be used with certain limitations or subject to specific considerations or are they simply of no use - thoughts please ?


Scoobz
 
Last edited:
Perfectos

Perfectos

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For reference and to assist others :

Replacement of roof Seal : 2018 van

the dates below are when the work was carried out by the Dealer, not necessarily when the failure was reported.

# 1 (factory fitted seal)
noted as failed Aug19 - rust evident within the seal recess on (first clean / inspection of roof edge & seal) = failure on the rear corner replaced sept 19 - i.e seal #2 fitted:
View attachment 86965

1637835909897.jpeg

#2 dealer fitted: noted as failed Aug 21 rust evident within the seal recess recess on front edge where roof profile blends from lower to upper level. Seal # fitted October 21
View attachment 86966
1637835943418.jpeg
#3 Dealer fitted: Noted as failed Nov 21 - seal rust evident leaching from a small hole in the manufactured joint, front O/s corner. Reported several weeks after fitting of previous failed seal In Oct 21
View attachment 86968
1637835977295.jpeg

View attachment 86969
1637836014717.jpeg

#4 due to be fitted imminently
incidentally the photo above is of the font of the roof with the side tape (factory fitted) in the lower left of the photo. Dealers are instructed to clean the roof edge fully before fit replacement seals !

All failures have been at different points on the seal, the last I belive is purely a manufacturing fault that was not picked up during fitting, but the amount of rust observed leaching is more considerable than the previous two failures.

importantly two have failed on the front of the roof where VW have omitted to fit the remedial “ tape” in an attempt to prevent this issue !

Clearly there is still a major issue with this part and VW have failed to resolve the known issue since production of the T5, it is now being reported on T6.1 models.
 
S

Scoobz1

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Peaks
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T6 Ocean 150
So far the only hint I have seen of an effective solution is this
FWIW, I used Dow Corning DC4 on my roof seal (dielectric silicone grease), and in nearly 4 years had no corrosion issues despite poorly applied tape and inevitable moisture ingress. It was easy enough to wipe the grease off the roof edge when I wanted to check for corrosion.

https://www.bradechem.com/silicones/lubricants/dow-corning-dc4/

"Description​

Dow Corning® 4 Electrical Insulating Compound can be applied by hand, specially designed automated equipment, brushing or wiping. Certain designs of grease guns may seize up with silicone compounds; test prior to use.
A thinner consistency can be achieved by dispersing in solvents such as
xylene, mineral spirits and methyl ethyl ketone. Dow Corning 4Compound can then be applied by brushing, dipping or spraying.
Dow Corning 4 Compound should not be applied to any surface which will be painted or finished.


A moisture proof seal for aircraft, automotive and marine ignition systems and spark plug connections, disconnection junctions in electrical wiring systems also in electrical assemblies and terminals. • Used as a seal and lubricant for cable connectors, battery terminals, rubber door seals, switches and rubber and plastic O-rings and as a assembly lubricant for various metal-on-plastic and metal-on-rubber combinations."

I think this product and some of the above listed in my earlier post may be useful - but just wondering what one would be the best to go with. It is clear we can't rely on VW !
This one looks particularly promising http://www.acf-50.co.uk/motorcycle/newacro/ACF50 Motorcycles_Hints & Tips.pdf
 
Last edited:
stephen watson

stephen watson

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253
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Cumbria
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T6 Ocean 150
My van is just out of 5 year extended warranty and has paint repairs and tape applied by VW - neither of which have been satisfactory. I've now coated the seal with silicone grease as have some others. As the corrosion is galvanic and the steel in the rubber seems to be the culprit I have often wondered if there is a non VW seal, which might be better quality, which would fit? The sides of the roof are a quite straightforward profile. The front seems a little different. Has anyone investigated this route for out of warranty vehicles? ( I'm presuming you would need to cut it to length and create corners etc)
 
66tim99

66tim99

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London
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T6.1 Ocean 150
For reference and to assist others :

Replacement of roof Seal : 2018 van

the dates below are when the work was carried out by the Dealer, not necessarily when the failure was reported.

# 1 (factory fitted seal)
noted as failed Aug19 - rust evident within the seal recess on (first clean / inspection of roof edge & seal) = failure on the rear corner replaced sept 19 - i.e seal #2 fitted:
View attachment 86965

View attachment 86970

#2 dealer fitted: noted as failed Aug 21 rust evident within the seal recess recess on front edge where roof profile blends from lower to upper level. Seal # fitted October 21
View attachment 86966
View attachment 86971
#3 Dealer fitted: Noted as failed Nov 21 - seal rust evident leaching from a small hole in the manufactured joint, front O/s corner. Reported several weeks after fitting of previous failed seal In Oct 21
View attachment 86968
View attachment 86972

View attachment 86969
View attachment 86973

#4 due to be fitted imminently
incidentally the photo above is of the font of the roof with the side tape (factory fitted) in the lower left of the photo. Dealers are instructed to clean the roof edge fully before fit replacement seals !

All failures have been at different points on the seal, the last I belive is purely a manufacturing fault that was not picked up during fitting, but the amount of rust observed leaching is more considerable than the previous two failures.

importantly two have failed on the front of the roof where VW have omitted to fit the remedial “ tape” in an attempt to prevent this issue !

Clearly there is still a major issue with this part and VW have failed to resolve the known issue since production of the T5, it is now being reported on T6.1 models.
I wonder if @Tomdbreeze could update us on the latest VW position?
 

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